ATF and Pistol Braces part 2..

[maverick52]

So this is a wait and see. Depending on how this goes it brings into question how we deal with others. The other is free from both NFA and NYS Safe Act as of now. The pistol brace is a configuration that prevents it from being called a rifle. If you put a regular stock or even a Thorsden stock you now have a rifle and it falls under the safe act. Then there are only two options I see to make your gun compliant. Either go with a buffer tube and foam... OR pin the mag.

Problem number 2 is if this goes the way of P80s. If that happens then they start knocking on doors, it will be bad. What do they do with everyone who already purchased a preassembled other? Confiscate the whole weapon? Imagine an ATF agent shows up with a state trooper? You will be screwed either way. I know the typical response is- let them try to take it. But I don't think many people are going to be willing to go to jail and lose their jobs and families over this.

I really hope that 2A govt officials put a stop to this move by the ATF. OR this may be a preview to a coming AWB. Either way, it will be a rocky ride.

 

[dsdmmat]

So this is a wait and see. Depending on how this goes it brings into question how we deal with others. The other is free from both NFA and NYS Safe Act as of now. The pistol brace is a configuration that prevents it from being called a rifle. If you put a regular stock or even a Thorsden stock you now have a rifle and it falls under the safe act. Then there are only two options I see to make your gun compliant. Either go with a buffer tube and foam... OR pin the mag.

Problem number 2 is if this goes the way of P80s. If that happens then they start knocking on doors, it will be bad. What do they do with everyone who already purchased a preassembled other? Confiscate the whole weapon? Imagine an ATF agent shows up with a state trooper? You will be screwed either way. I know the typical response is- let them try to take it. But I don't think many people are going to be willing to go to jail and lose their jobs and families over this.

I really hope that 2A govt officials put a stop to this move by the ATF. OR this may be a preview to a coming AWB. Either way, it will be a rocky ride.

AR pistols have to have a pinned mag in NY anyway. Magazine outside the pistol grip and weight over 50 ounces make it an “assault weapon”
Under the safe act.

 

[maverick52]

AR pistols have to have a pinned mag in NY anyway. Magazine outside the pistol grip and weight over 50 ounces make it an “assault weapon”
Under the safe act.

But an "other" is not an AR pistol. Once the brace is gone, you can maintain other status by keeping buffer tube with foam, or convert to rifle by pinning the mag/ or swapping the upper for a compliant upper.

 

[dsdmmat]

But an "other" is not an AR pistol. Once the brace is gone, you can maintain other status by keeping buffer tube with foam, or convert to rifle by pinning the mag/ or swapping the upper for a compliant upper.

Other is a federal term. I have always been suspicious the “Federal Other” is a “NY Firearm” and in that case would be illegal in the PRNY. But I am not a lawyer nor an expert in the way the NY 400 is interpreted or misinterpreted by the NYSP goon squad.

if you feel confident the other is legal in the PRNY I applaud your stance. I was never that confident in the “NY just us” system.

 

[Jem45472]

But an "other" is not an AR pistol. Once the brace is gone, you can maintain other status by keeping buffer tube with foam, or convert to rifle by pinning the mag/ or swapping the upper for a compliant upper.

This is begging for trouble. Best to convert it to a rifle. In ny's eyes, you are going to have an sbr, or assault weapon. Changing to a pistol would require fixed mag, removable of vfg, ant to be put on a permit- lots of luck finding an FFL to do paperwork to add to permit as per atf you can go pistol to rifle and back, but there is no laws or guidance stating you can go from "other" to pistol, or rifle.

 

[maverick52]

I am not goin to argue the merits of whether or not and "other" is legal. There are a few threads on this forum that beat that to death. If this goes the way of P80's than I think pinning the mag is the best way forward.

 

[Jem45472]

But an "other" is not an AR pistol. Once the brace is gone, you can maintain other status by keeping buffer tube with foam

If pulled over in ny you will be charged with either an assault weapon, or an illegal, unregistered pistol.

 

[dsdmmat]

If the “Other” with the pistol brace goes the way of the P80 they are not going to give you the option of converting it. They are just going to take it and give you a receipt for it.

it would be nice if they allowed you to register it as an SBR for free but that option would be not be available in the PRNY.

 

[seezur]

So this is a wait and see. Depending on how this goes it brings into question how we deal with others. The other is free from both NFA and NYS Safe Act as of now. The pistol brace is a configuration that prevents it from being called a rifle. If you put a regular stock or even a Thorsden stock you now have a rifle and it falls under the safe act. Then there are only two options I see to make your gun compliant. Either go with a buffer tube and foam... OR pin the mag.

Problem number 2 is if this goes the way of P80s. If that happens then they start knocking on doors, it will be bad. What do they do with everyone who already purchased a preassembled other? Confiscate the whole weapon? Imagine an ATF agent shows up with a state trooper? You will be screwed either way. I know the typical response is- let them try to take it. But I don't think many people are going to be willing to go to jail and lose their jobs and families over this.

I really hope that 2A govt officials put a stop to this move by the ATF. OR this may be a preview to a coming AWB. Either way, it will be a rocky ride.

For what it’s worth, Thordsen apparently had verbal confirmation of the legality of their stocks. ARs with Thordsens were sold in major sporting goods stores. It’s an effort to comply with their bullshit and a cop that sees one is going to at least acknowledge that it’s a neutered rifle (still could charge you).

An “other” was never sold at cabellas etc. It also looks like an AR pistol or simply a rifle. A cop is 100% going to arrest you. The only saving grace is having money and time enough to try and fight it in court and explain how the loophole is NY legal.

But back on topic... I don’t think most people will resist troopers or ATF agents yet. But I do think the logical course for this is that they will make us all criminals at some point and we will have to either adapt like the boys in the hood do or hand in everything. Sadly at some point we will probably all have to make a choice between our families, livelihood and immediate freedom and our principles and beliefs and the long term freedom of this nation.

 

[maverick52]

You can convert it now before it goes the way of the p80.

 

[dsdmmat]

You can convert it now before it goes the way of the p80.

Not sure about that. The people who bought the P80 kit in question are being told to give it up no matter if it is already built or still in kit form, To me this is a “taking without compensation” but that is another thread. If the “other” was purchased as an “Other” the purchaser may not have that option.

 

[Jem45472]

That's correct. Dealing with a chunk of plastic, and a serialized firearm are two different things. I would think at the very least talking to an FFL is in order.

I have the original atf approved sb15 on my pistol, and am still considering selling because of all this crap.

 

[maverick52]

Let’s see where this goes. I hope it’s just a reclassification and not a p80 situation.

 

[Uzi]

Guys, relax!

Donald Trump is still president. He won't let this go a single step further. By dinner time tonight, this will probably all blow by like nothing ever happened. Your main concerns should really be what hand guns and rifles you plan on getting when Trump abolishes the safe act and other gun control like it, probably before the end of this month I'd imagine.

Don't act like signing off the banning and reclassifying bump stocks as fully automatic operation wasn't 10th dimensional chess. When he's playing golf, this is when his god level 2A freedom loving genius is created. Bottom line, He cares.

 

[DrBleachCocktail]

Guys, relax!

Donald Trump is still president. He won't let this go a single step further. By dinner time tonight, this will probably all blow by like nothing ever happened. Your main concerns should really be what hand guns and rifles you plan on getting when Trump abolishes the safe act and other gun control like it, probably before the end of this month I'd imagine.

Don't act like signing off the banning and reclassifying bump stocks as fully automatic operation wasn't 10th dimensional chess. When he's playing golf, this is when his god level 2A freedom loving genius is created. Bottom line, He cares.

Trump cares more about recounting votes and securing his 2020 presidential seat than the 2nd amendment. I don’t see trump stopping the ATF brace situation. And even if so before he leave officer, Biden will just go after them all over again. Supreme Court should be our best bet but even they don’t want to touch any 2A cases.

 

[xcvPro]

Great so the 80% 12.5" Other i build using a SBA4 is now garbage. Can't keep it as its a SBR per ATF, and SBR's are Illiagal in NY. So my $1300 build is trash. Great.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

So my $1300 build is trash.

Only if you want it to be.

 

[1075tech]

Great so the 80% 12.5" Other i build using a SBA4 is now garbage. Can't keep it as its a SBR per ATF, and SBR's are Illiagal in NY. So my $1300 build is trash. Great.

I have a garbage can you can put it in

 

[Jem45472]

Great so the 80% 12.5" Other i build using a SBA4 is now garbage. Can't keep it as its a SBR per ATF, and SBR's are Illiagal in NY. So my $1300 build is trash. Great.

Last I heard atf said they were going to review on a case by case basis, and if you wanted to know for sure you could send it to them for review and approval.

Like anybody in their right mind would do that.

 

[speedkills27]

Only if you want it to be.

THIS

 

[maverick52]

If this thing passes...a big if. It really won’t change things much. Your risk in NYS will be no greater than it is now. There are alternative options for the stock.

 

[That_FNG]

Good thing all my AR pistols have stabilized wrist attachments and are not equipped with pistol braces

 

[DrBleachCocktail]

So what about pistol buffer tube with foam? Or do ATF just want to get rid of the AR Pistol category?

 

[maverick52]

I dont think this is going to be a wholesale ban on pistol braces. This guy explains it well

 

[Acer-m14]

could this be a bump in the road now .. ummmm


Mrgunsngear

This could be interesting legal precedent that could impact the recourse many Americans would have in the event of some of the
ATF's proposals actually become "law" (I know it's not ACTUAL law...). Hope these agents have deep pockets if they plan on going through with their plans

"It is not the high court's job to create laws where they do not exist, he added, which the government was effectively asking them to do. "To be sure, there may be policy reasons why Congress may wish to shield Government employees from personal liability, and Congress is free to do so," Thomas said. "But there are no constitutional reasons why we must do so in its stead."'




" The Supreme Court last week unanimously ruled in Tanzin v. Tanvir that a trio of Muslim men may sue a group of FBI agents for damages after the government officials put them on the no-fly list for refusing to spy on their own communities. It's been hailed as a win for religious liberty, and it is. But the ruling also strikes at something deeper: namely, that the tide may be turning on how we are able to hold public officials accountable when they violate our constitutional rights. "

SCOTUS Rules That Federal Agents Can Be Sued When They Violate Your Rights

Now do qualified immunity.

reason.com

 

[Jem45472]

So what about pistol buffer tube with foam? Or do ATF just want to get rid of the AR Pistol category? View attachment 100286

Gotta see how everything plays out. I see no problem with converting to a legal rifle if that's what you want, but trying to change from an "other" classification to a "pistol" classification could bring up some problems.

As of right now there's no need to do anything.

 

[Acer-m14]

putting a brace on my carving knife ...

Easi-Grip Arthritis Carving Knife : Large, upright handle that is comfortable to grip

www.arthritissupplies.com

 

[Dr. Evil]

I dont think this is going to be a wholesale ban on pistol braces. This guy explains it well

After watching this video it further proves to me that the people that come up with this shit are useless and criminals could care less. All of this has ZERO impact on crime and the bad guys.

 

[spat]

Last I heard atf said they were going to review on a case by case basis, and if you wanted to know for sure you could send it to them for review and approval.

Like anybody in their right mind would do that.

"We can't define it, but we know it when we see it".

Isn't that the very definition of arbitrary ?

 

[dsdmmat]

"We can't define it, but we know it when we see it".

Isn't that the very definition of arbitrary ?

kind of like we have to pass the bill before we know what is in it.