ECU Pirates
.308 Win
The one of me slapping sense into Will?That emoji rules.
Beretta M9a1 Reliability Test
- Thread starter Marine Cpl
- Start date
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Double strike capability = poor training. You don't have time to have a second click on a bad round in a defensive situation. Chambering another round is warranted in that situation.
Riding a hammer = poor holstering and negligence. You should always mind the trigger when reholstering rather then shoving it in and riding the hammer.
In a defensive situation, a single action trigger will gain you no benefit from the lighter and smoother break. You aren't going to stand there and aim slowly with slow and smooth trigger control while your target stays still so you can have the second and third shot make a clover leaf.
There are target pistols specifically made for that if that's your desire. This thread is about reliability in combat handguns.
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Whatever level of training you have tou are gonna proly revert to a deer in the head lights mode. You might not remember to tap rack bang, you might not even have time to. With a DA/SA you at least have the chance a secondntrigger pull gets a shot down range, with a striker gun you just have a dead trigger. Riding the hammer during a draw gives you that bit of extra insurance that could make the difference against a tragic ND. Trigger discipline can always leave you due to a brain fart or panic. The DA/SA, as I have said many times before, requires a bit more training to adapt tonthe transition but in return is the most forgiving, idiot proof semi auto acrion there is. Not to mention many of the legendary, proven, combat pistols are DA/SA. I am going to get that P01 CZ soon, I will practice with it alongside the PPQ and work on gaining my DA/SA mojo back.
Also I do like having a hammer accessible for manipulation. I can easily control and determine its cocking status beyond pulling the trigger. I always appreciate mechanical designs that give me the maximum control over its function, I also much prefer an unsychronized manual transmission for example.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
How can you not remember to rack the slide if it goes click? That's ridiculous.
Because somone is attacking you? Because you are not thinking clearly? Because you are panicking your ass off?
Because all your brain can process at that moment is "trigger trigger trigger trigger trigger trigger trigger"?
Maybe you are so amped up that you don't even connect the click no bang with anything?
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
I'm sorry. I don't buy that. Whether amped up or not, if a weapon goes click, you chamber another round. That was engrained into me from day one. Pulling the trigger again does nothing for a stovepipe or a weapon out of battery. This isn't a revolver. Anyone who does that has piss poor training.
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
Somehow between cranking it to this pic and being on the forum 20 hours a day will finds time to train like a special forces operator. He can tap rack bang faster than you can pull a trigger again. He can even do it one handed thus negating another second strike advantage.
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
You really are a funny guy at times. Didn't you say shotguns are not a good choice due to a potential hostage situation where a head shot might be needed? So in that case you need accuracy but it's not important with a handgun? I guess you can just hope for the best if a handgun is used. I personally think the hostage situation it ridiculous but I shoot better with a da/sa than any striker fired gun I have shot. A good trigger is not about slow fire on stationary targets.
Riding the hammer is not poor training. Where do you come up with this stuff? Why would you not do it if a hammer is there? I have never heard someone say being safe while holstering is poor training.
Wake up Will
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
What are you talking about? Are you saying a headshot cannot be made with a striker fired gun? A hammer fired gun is the only reliable way to make that headshot?You really are a funny guy at times. Didn't you say shotguns are not a good choice due to a potential hostage situation where a head shot might be needed? So in that case you need accuracy but it's not important with a handgun? I guess you can just hope for the best if a handgun is used. I personally think the hostage situation it ridiculous but I shoot better with a da/sa than any striker fired gun I have shot. A good trigger is not about slow fire on stationary targets.
Riding the hammer is not poor training. Where do you come up with this stuff? Why would you not do it if a hammer is there? I have never heard someone say being safe while holstering is poor training.
Wake up Will
And why would you need to ride a hammer if you follow the safety rules and your trigger is clear? I guess it's unsafe to holster anything other then a hammered weapon.
I'm wide awake. You my friend have fallen asleep at the wheel or smoked one too many pipes.
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I'm not going to argue further. Strikers are boring, hammers are sexy and nuts to anyone that says otherwise! THBBBBBBTT!!
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
That is true if you like gadgets and doohickeys.
TTTTTTTHHHHHHHHHHBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBbbbbBbbbbbbbbBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBbbbbBbBBBBBbbbbbbbb..........BBBBBbbbbbbbbbbbb...........bbb............b.......... .................t.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Here you go Pod. You should get this. Plenty of gadgets. You have to enter a code before you reholster to prevent a negligent discharge. You can also set the trigger pull weight to any poundage depending on the situation. It'll also drop the hammer again automatically in case of a light primer strike. I believe CZ makes it.
TTTTTHHHBBBBBBBBBBBBTTTT!Here you go Pod. You should get this. Plenty of gadgets. You have to enter a code before you reholster to prevent a negligent discharge. You can also set the trigger pull weight to any poundage depending on the situation. It'll also drop the hammer again automatically in case of a light primer strike. I believe CZ makes it.
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
You said this: " In a defensive situation, a single action trigger will gain you no benefit from the lighter and smoother break."
Are you saying most will not be more accurate with a lighter, smoother trigger? Would one not want the most accuracy possible in the hostage situation you have brought up in the past?
As for riding the hammer... Why would you not when it's there? It's an extra measure of safety.
This is also the best one of the best explanations for the advantages of second strike I have read. It's from our old friend scotch man:
"I don't think of it as one or the other. I train for TRB, and I would plan to TRB in a real life situation. It is the better choice, more or less indisputably. However, to me, second strike isn't about choosing not to TRB. It's about in the stress of a real life situation, things don't always go as planned. You may forget your training and just squeeze the trigger as fast as you can. You may be injured and have trouble racking the slide. You may have to hand the gun to someone else who has no idea how to run it.
In all of these situations, a gun with second strike capability is superior. It is not a significant differentiator, and I wouldn't make a buy/not buy (or carry/not carry) decision based on it, but it is worth something."
I can say that I have only had one primer that didn't shoot after a second strike.
Go back to the liquor store Will...
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
No sir. He only has a 26 and plans on getting three more. He is a 9mm fan boy though.
TTTTTHHBBBBBBBBBbBNbBbBbBbBbBbtttT!
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
I liked this because it was a reply to Will. I have no clue WTF you are talking about.
Tthhbbt.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
So much fail in your posts buddy. Don't fall into the John Stark routine of long winded paragraphs that mean nothing.You said this: " In a defensive situation, a single action trigger will gain you no benefit from the lighter and smoother break."
Are you saying most will not be more accurate with a lighter, smoother trigger? Would one not want the most accuracy possible in the hostage situation you have brought up in the past?
As for riding the hammer... Why would you not when it's there? It's an extra measure of safety.
This is also the best one of the best explanations for the advantages of second strike I have read. It's from our old friend scotch man:
"I don't think of it as one or the other. I train for TRB, and I would plan to TRB in a real life situation. It is the better choice, more or less indisputably. However, to me, second strike isn't about choosing not to TRB. It's about in the stress of a real life situation, things don't always go as planned. You may forget your training and just squeeze the trigger as fast as you can. You may be injured and have trouble racking the slide. You may have to hand the gun to someone else who has no idea how to run it.
In all of these situations, a gun with second strike capability is superior. It is not a significant differentiator, and I wouldn't make a buy/not buy (or carry/not carry) decision based on it, but it is worth something."
I can say that I have only had one primer that didn't shoot after a second strike.
Go back to the liquor store Will...
Look. Either you mind the trigger or you don't. Its that simple. Riding a hammer after minding the trigger doesn't make it anymore safer. That's ridiculous.
As far as the triggers go, do you really think a 3 to 3.5 lb trigger compared to a 4 lb is going to make a difference when adrenaline is coursing through your veins for a chest or head shot? Come on man. You are being ridiculous and you know it.
And no matter what you say, firing again after a misfire is stupid. Any guy with a brain isn't going to forget to rack a slide and rechamber another round if he knows that is what should be done. You are a smart dude. Don't tell me that a 2nd trigger pull is warranted on a light primer strike, out of battery slide, or a stovepipe. That'll get you killed.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Tell me that you just like hammers. Don't tell me nonsense on riding hammers and firing twice.
THHBBBBTTT! Thhbt, thbbt ttthhhbbt thbt. ThhhBBBbtt thbt thbt.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
You see. @ECU Pirates . This I can roll with. At least he isn't giving misinformation.
Thbbt.
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
F this. I hereby call out Will to an IDPA match (or shooting contest of his choice) somewhere equal distance from where we live. I will use a Sig 239 (8+1) and will easily best him.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Getting defensive are we?View attachment 13130
F this. I hereby call out Will to an IDPA match (or shooting contest of his choice) somewhere equal distance from where we live. I will use a Sig 239 (8+1) and will easily best him.
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
Nah, I only get out once every couple months now that I have a son. I'm rusty.Getting defensive are we?
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Well, I challenge thee to a duel! 10 paces!