Biden to Coal Miners; "Learn to Code"

[spat]

Anybody who can actual code know this is bullshit.

Some people are better equipped for certain jobs than others. The sort of person who is well suited to mining may not be well suited to coding. Some people will never be good developers no matter the practice because their mind doesn't work in the way to do it properly.

Moreover, any career change you're forced into at 50 is going to be very difficult for most.

Nurses make terrible engineers, and engineers make terrible nurses.

Telling people to transition jobs like that is like telling some guy who didn't make the Olympic team for running to try ski jumping instead. Because all sports are the same right ?

 

[96coal449]

Virginia was never so great. Sarc

I just felt a rise in temperature.

 

[Deplorable Me]

 

[Curmudgeon]

Nurses make terrible engineers, and engineers make terrible nurses.

Telling people to transition jobs like that is like telling some guy who didn't make the Olympic team for running to try ski jumping instead. Because all sports are the same right ?

Isn't it an inevitable fact of the evolution of society? I think using elite athletes as an example is a bad analogy.

 

[spat]

Isn't it an inevitable fact of the evolution of society? I think using elite athletes as an example is a bad analogy.

It does evolve, but society generally evolves slowly enough that individuals don't have to change.

It's a fact that there are a lot less coal miners now than there were 100 years ago, and a lot more than there will be in 100 years.

But that doesn't mean that they all needed to be retrained. Just that when they retire new ones aren't hired.

Now, some industries collapse too fast for that, and some people do need to be retrained, but generally it doesn't have to happen.

The original point though was that different people are suited for different industries, and a guy who makes a good coal miner is probably not well suited for coding and vice versa.

If a coal miner needs to be retrained, programming is probably not the best choice.

Elite athletes may not be the best example, but the point stands.

 

[Curmudgeon]

If a coal miner needs to be retrained, programming is probably not the best choice.

What makes you say that? I think you'd be surprised.

 

[meketrefe]

Buy a shotgun!

 

[spat]

What makes you say that? I think you'd be surprised.

I am the kind of person who has done both the kind of work where you get your hands dirty, and the kind where you sit behind a keyboard all day.

Most of the people I know on either type of job would not like or perform well doing the other.

There are of course exceptions. Maybe 20-30% of the people do one professionally and the other as a hobby, but most want nothing to do with the other way of life.

There is at least a 3rd general category as well, jobs where you deal directly with customers.

Some jobs overlap, and some people like multiple categories, but in general people like what they like and aren't good at stuff they don't like.

 

[Robin]

Here you go Joe, though I don't think you'd make it.

“A man’s got to have a code, a creed to live by, no matter his job.”
– John Wayne

Though the early Code was unwritten, here is a “loose” list of some of the more interesting and, for me, impactful guiding principles:

• Don’t inquire into a person’s past. Take the measure of a man for what he is today.
• Riding another man’s horse without his permission is nearly as bad as making love to his wife. Never even bother another man’s horse. And never steal another man’s horse. A horse thief pays with his life.
• Defend yourself whenever necessary, but don’t make a threat without expecting dire consequences.
• Never order anything weaker than whiskey, and always fill your whiskey glass to the brim.
• Never pass anyone on the trail without saying “Howdy”. After you pass someone on the trail, don’t look back at him. It implies you don’t trust him.
• Don’t wave at a man on a horse, as it might spook the horse. A nod is the proper greeting.
• Real men are modest. A man doesn’t talk much; he saves his breath for breathing.
• No matter how weary and hungry you are after a long day in the saddle, always tend to your horse’s needs before your own, and get your horse some feed before you eat.
• Cuss all you want, but only around men, horses and cows.
• Do not practice ingratitude and never complain. Complaining is what quitters do, and men don’t tolerate quitters.
• Always be courageous. Cowards aren’t tolerated in any outfit worth its salt.
• A man always helps someone in need, even a stranger or an enemy.
• Never try on another man’s hat.
• A man is loyal to his “brand,” to his friends, and those he rides with. Be there for a friend when he needs you.
• Respect the land and the environment.
• Honesty is absolute – your word is your bond; a handshake is more binding than a contract.

Robin

 

[Blimey]

What makes you say that? I think you'd be surprised.

He said "may".

I don't know what the skillset is for mining but I know what it is for coding. The best ones are very logical, using the same mindset as an engineer: thinking things through from early concept to the final product, involving the minute specifics of exactly how it will work, why it will work, the ways it may not work, and what will happen if it doesn't and how to mitigate them. If you're the kind of guy who can put music and sit down for 8 hours straight thinking about a specific problem, you can probably become a good coder. I don't think that's a job description of a miner.

Comparing engineers to nurses is a good comparison. I have an engineering mindset. I am not a natural teacher. In fact I don't like teaching. I like telling people what something is. I don't like trying to get them there step by step.

 

[Curmudgeon]

I am the kind of person who has done both the kind of work where you get your hands dirty, and the kind where you sit behind a keyboard all day.

Most of the people I know on either type of job would not like or perform well doing the other.

There are of course exceptions. Maybe 20-30% of the people do one professionally and the other as a hobby, but most want nothing to do with the other way of life.

There is at least a 3rd general category as well, jobs where you deal directly with customers.

Some jobs overlap, and some people like multiple categories, but in general people like what they like and aren't good at stuff they don't like.

There's a difference between "liking" something and being able to do it. I wouldn't like sitting at a desk writing code all day if I had to, or working in a mine. But if those were my choices I'd get after it and be successful.

He said "may".

I don't know what the skillset is for mining but I know what it is for coding. The best ones are very logical, using the same mindset as an engineer: thinking things through from early concept to the final product, involving the minute specifics of exactly how it will work, why it will work, the ways it may not work, and what will happen if it doesn't and how to mitigate them. If you're the kind of guy who can put music and sit down for 8 hours straight thinking about a specific problem, you can probably become a good coder. I don't think that's a job description of a miner.

Comparing engineers to nurses is a good comparison. I have an engineering mindset. I am not a natural teacher. In fact I don't like teaching. I like telling people what something is. I don't like trying to get them there step by step.

Are you suggesting miners can't think logically? Lots of folks in construction, or handymen have to think very logically about what they're doing.

I don't think you can say "because miners arent accustomed to having to think logically, they can't."

 

[spat]

There's a difference between "liking" something and being able to do it. I wouldn't like sitting at a desk writing code all day if I had to, or working in a mine. But if those were my choices I'd get after it and be successful.



Are you suggesting miners can't think logically? Lots of folks in construction, or handymen have to think very logically about what they're doing.

I don't think you can say "because miners arent accustomed to having to think logically, they can't."

A job you hate is not a good fit.

Sure you may be able to be competent, but you'll never be good, and you won't be able to remain competent forever.

Better to find something you don't hate.

I don't think he was suggesting that miners can't think logically, but that there is a particular approach to solving programming problems that most people are not suited for.

Even people who are excellent logical thinkers may not be well suited to programming.

Think of it like this, a good racing team needs both expert drivers and mechanics. Seldom will you find one guy who is good at both roles.

They're also going to need good managers and good salesmen (to get sponsors). Those are 2 more skillsets that don't overlap with the first.

The point isn't that people *can't* be good at both, but that a lot of people aren't, and it's an aptitude you have to have intrinsically, not a skill you develop.

 

[Blimey]

There's a difference between "liking" something and being able to do it. I wouldn't like sitting at a desk writing code all day if I had to, or working in a mine. But if those were my choices I'd get after it and be successful.



Are you suggesting miners can't think logically? Lots of folks in construction, or handymen have to think very logically about what they're doing.

I don't think you can say "because miners arent accustomed to having to think logically, they can't."

Most people can code to some degree. Most people are not ever going to be great at it. This is easy: A cross section of population from miners and from coders you're going to find people with differing potential.

 

[ProgSpear]

while (1){
print "Joe is a Turd. So are the rest of them. \n"
}