Black bear defense gun?

[S&W Fan]

“12 lb. spring” ??? ALL of my revolvers are 10 lbs. or under in double action and that’s without any Mods / trigger kits, which you most certainly need to get a semi under 10 lbs. But that’s besides the point. Wether hunting or defending yourself, you should Always use what you are comfortable and proficient with, Reguardless of what anyone else says.

 

[Edwardteach72]

“12 lb. spring” ??? ALL of my revolvers are 10 lbs. or under in double action and that’s without any Mods / trigger kits, which you most certainly need to get a semi under 10 lbs. But that’s besides the point. Wether hunting or defending yourself, you should Always use what you are comfortable and proficient with, Reguardless of what anyone else says.

What semi are you talking about that needs work done to get under 10lbs. Glocks are 5.5, sw m&p are I believe 6.5lbs

Are you talking DA/SA? Cause those are still better than a DA/SA revolver... only one stupid heavy trigger pull then a good light follow up.

As for the 12lb spring. Most likely talking about the recoil spring. Which has nothing to do with trigger pull

 

[Upstate43]

Everyone has a choice and they are entitled to it and can do what they want even if it's a poor choice like a pocket knife for bear defense when other methods are available or a good choice that some may consider overkill.

However, a point is being made that cannot be disputed due to physics. A semi auto with 11 rounds is still more controllable and faster than a revolver with a 12 pound trigger and no recoil spring no matter how good you are. If you are good with the recolver, you will always be better with the semi auto. The semi auto will always be more controlable than a revolver because it is more ergonomic for 2 handed control, has a recoil spring, and has a lighter trigger with a shorter reset.

The question to answer is 'how much faster?'

A 10mm semi-auto, even with its lighter trigger, still isn't going to spout off rounds as quickly as a 9mm or .45 acp semi-atuo. And a .357 magnum, despite its heavy DA trigger, can still get several rounds off very quickly assuming we're talking about heavy/long barreled type. There are SA revolvers out there too, if someone is focused on speed of use.

My point is, within the time-frame that a predator attack occurs (generally speaking they tend to happen very quickly), I don't think a 10mm semi-auto's "faster" firing is going to be fast enough to allow for many more rounds, if any, when compared to a .357 magnum revolver. That's why I think the added round capacity normally associated with a 10mm semi-auto is mostly a moot point. If you can't neutralize the threat with 2-3 rounds (either 10mm or .357), then you're likely in a lot of trouble.

Again, this conversation is geared towards 4-legged predator defense, not 2-legged predator defense. And yes, most of the above is geared specifically towards brown bear defense. Most black bears will take off at the first sign of trouble.

 

[Marine Cpl]

The question to answer is 'how much faster?'

A 10mm semi-auto, even with its lighter trigger, still isn't going to spout off rounds as quickly as a 9mm or .45 acp semi-atuo. And a .357 magnum, despite its heavy DA trigger, can still get several rounds off very quickly assuming we're talking about heavy/long barreled type. There are SA revolvers out there too, if someone is focused on speed of use.

My point is, within the time-frame that a predator attack occurs (generally speaking they tend to happen very quickly), I don't think a 10mm semi-auto's "faster" firing is going to be fast enough to allow for many more rounds, if any, when compared to a .357 magnum revolver. That's why I think the added round capacity normally associated with a 10mm semi-auto is mostly a moot point. If you can't neutralize the threat with 2-3 rounds (either 10mm or .357), then you're likely in a lot of trouble.

Again, this conversation is geared towards 4-legged predator defense, not 2-legged predator defense. And yes, most of the above is geared specifically towards brown bear defense. Most black bears will take off at the first sign of trouble.

Considerably faster. About twice as fast. You really cannot doubletap with a revolver. With a revolver, you just cannot get as high a grip as you can with a semi auto around the bore line. And the pull whether 10 or 12 pounds on a revolver will always be more since you cannot manually pull the hammer back with each shot to reduce that pull when a 4 legger is charging you. A semi auto averages around 5 lbs with each pull and the recoil spring substantially takes some of that recoil away. With a revolver, your hand and arms are the only things absorbing the recoil and your hands are much lower below the bore line.

 

[Upstate43]

Considerably faster. About twice as fast. You really cannot doubletap with a revolver. With a revolver, you just cannot get as high a grip as you can with a semi auto around the bore line. And the pull whether 10 or 12 pounds on a revolver will always be more since you cannot manually pull the hammer back with each shot to reduce that pull when a 4 legger is charging you. A semi auto averages around 5 lbs with each pull and the recoil spring substantially takes some of that recoil away. With a revolver, your hand and arms are the only things absorbing the recoil and your hands are much lower below the bore line.

2x as fast? Have you actually done testing to validate that claim? If so, did you actually use dedicated bear defense rounds?

The semi-auto action does absorb some of the felt recoil, but you're still dealing with quite a bit of recoil when you use the appropriate loads. Training can mitigate much of the time penalty associated with the heavy DA revolver trigger. And as I said earlier, if you're truly concerned about shooting speed, SA revolvers are an option.

I think the end result (#of rounds fired) will be marginally different, if at all, between a .357 mag and 10mm if we're talking about a realistic scenario (high stress, minimum time) and realistic loads.

Lots of people have fantasies about how quickly they'll burn through rounds in a life-or-death defense scenario. The overwhelming majority of those people don't have any appreciation for how quickly things happen in those scenarios and how seemingly simple tasks (like acquiring a sight picture) become very difficult to accomplish when under stress. My 2 cents.

 

[Edwardteach72]

How are you going to say SA revolvers are faster than s semi-auto.

Semi auto, press trigger, repeat.

SA revolver, cock hammer, fire, cock hammer fire.

 

[Marine Cpl]

2x as fast? Have you actually done testing to validate that claim? If so, did you actually use dedicated bear defense rounds?

The semi-auto action does absorb some of the felt recoil, but you're still dealing with quite a bit of recoil when you use the appropriate loads. Training can mitigate much of the time penalty associated with the heavy DA revolver trigger. And as I said earlier, if you're truly concerned about shooting speed, SA revolvers are an option.

I think the end result (#of rounds fired) will be marginally different, if at all, between a .357 mag and 10mm if we're talking about a realistic scenario (high stress, minimum time) and realistic loads.

Lots of people have fantasies about how quickly they'll burn through rounds in a life-or-death defense scenario. The overwhelming majority of those people don't have any appreciation for how quickly things happen in those scenarios and how seemingly simple tasks (like acquiring a sight picture) become very difficult to accomplish when under stress. My 2 cents.

You can doubletap on semi autos. I don't think you can with revolvers. Maybe I'm wrong but about the fastest you can probably do on a revolver with a 12 pound trigger is a controlled pair.

 

[stokes]

How are you going to say SA revolvers are faster than s semi-auto.

Semi auto, press trigger, repeat.

SA revolver, cock hammer, fire, cock hammer fire.

Hold the trigger and fan the hammer like Clint Eastwood?

 

[Marine Cpl]

Hold the trigger and fan the hammer like Clint Eastwood?

That would work I guess.

 

[Shoots100]

“12 lb. spring” ??? ALL of my revolvers are 10 lbs. or under in double action and that’s without any Mods / trigger kits, which you most certainly need to get a semi under 10 lbs. But that’s besides the point. Wether hunting or defending yourself, you should Always use what you are comfortable and proficient with, Regardless of what anyone else says.

Exactly, that's why this 50 year old dinosaur carry's a 28oz 44 mag revolver that has a 3 lb single action trigger and an 8 lb double action trigger, and can shoot your head clean off at 50 yards with one arm standing on my worst day. Practice makes perfect.
I don't care if you want to carry some new fangled plastic gun made from recycled Tupperware, or carry a revolver made for a mans man, have at it, just don't be telling me that a revolver is obsolete, as more guides in real danger areas are carrying them to protect their clients, than any other type of weapon at their disposal. That's the facts jack.
SJC

 

[Marine Cpl]

Exactly, that's why this 50 year old dinosaur carry's a 28oz 44 mag revolver that has a 3 lb single action trigger and an 8 lb double action trigger, and can shoot your head clean off at 50 yards with one arm standing on my worst day. Practice makes perfect.
I don't care if you want to carry some new fangled plastic gun made from recycled Tupperware, or carry a revolver made for a mans man, have at it, just don't be telling me that a revolver is obsolete, as more guides in real danger areas are carrying them to protect their clients, than any other type of weapon at their disposal. That's the facts jack.
SJC

A revolver is obsolete. That's fact. With that said, there is nothing wrong with a person liking them. The same goes with an M14 vs a lighter, shorter, more accurate AR10. There is nothing wrong with a person liking the older, heavier, and longer M14. But the truth is the truth. Some weapon systems are obsolete.

 

[GOYABEAN]

I don't think the Bear cares what's the latest fashion on firearms just who's the slowest of the bunch

 

[Shoots100]

A revolver is obsolete. That's fact. With that said, there is nothing wrong with a person liking them. The same goes with an M14 vs a lighter, shorter, more accurate AR10. There is nothing wrong with a person liking the older, heavier, and longer M14. But the truth is the truth. Some weapon systems are obsolete.

When reliability and power become obsolete, your pea shooter bottom feeders will rule the day.
Until then, Revolvers in calibers that the little Tupperware pistols can only dream of firing will rule the day in dangerous situations.
Capacity doesn't make up for reliability and power.
While being shot with any caliber will hurt you, your definitely going to die when shot with a 400 grain HP from a 500 S&W.
Carry what you want, but revolvers will be around longer than the hopeless close minded people like you and your bottom feeding pea shooters.
When you want to learn how to shoot, instead of spraying and praying, Climb down from your cross and go seek the guidance of a revolver shooter.
I'm out,
SJC

 

[GOYABEAN]

 

[Marine Cpl]

When reliability and power become obsolete, your pea shooter bottom feeders will rule the day.
Until then, Revolvers in calibers that the little Tupperware pistols can only dream of firing will rule the day in dangerous situations.
Capacity doesn't make up for reliability and power.
While being shot with any caliber will hurt you, your definitely going to die when shot with a 400 grain HP from a 500 S&W.
Carry what you want, but revolvers will be around longer than the hopeless close minded people like you and your bottom feeding pea shooters.
When you want to learn how to shoot, instead of spraying and praying, Climb down from your cross and go seek the guidance of a revolver shooter.
I'm out,
SJC

Revolvers shine and won't go away because the cases and bullets are bigger and don't have to be crammed into a grip. So a .454 Casull for hunting is ideal for example. But you keep missing the point. Hunting and self defense against 4 legger are two different things.

But since you can't and won't get that, than that's that. Your continued reference to Tupperware shows your ignorance on the subject.

 

[FLA45fan]

A revolver is obsolete. That's fact. With that said, there is nothing wrong with a person liking them. The same goes with an M14 vs a lighter, shorter, more accurate AR10. There is nothing wrong with a person liking the older, heavier, and longer M14. But the truth is the truth. Some weapon systems are obsolete.

Yup, obsolete. That's why Smith, Ruger, Taurus, and others still continue to make their revolver line ups. Screaming, steaming pile of bear dung . . .

 

[Marine Cpl]

Yup, obsolete. That's why Smith, Ruger, Taurus, and others still continue to make their revolver line ups. Screaming, steaming pile of bear dung . . .

They still serve a purpose. I've said that. Read above.

 

[FLA45fan]

If they serve a purpose they cannot be obsolete.

 

[Marine Cpl]

If they serve a purpose they cannot be obsolete.

For self defense they are.

 

[FLA45fan]

If a person is handicapped by lack of strength to be able to manipulate the slide i.e. older, arthritis affected or otherwise what would you suggest that they use? A revolver is perfect for self defense . . .

 

[Marine Cpl]

If a person is handicapped by lack of strength to be able to manipulate the slide i.e. older, arthritis affected or otherwise what would you suggest that they use? A revolver is perfect for self defense . . .

That doesn't mean it isn't an obsolete defensive weapon. That just means it's the only type of weapon that that person can use.

 

[FLA45fan]

Therefore, still in use, and by definition, not obsolete. Now, granted, not in use by you. But mark my words, when I am dead and gone, and you aren't - when you body has aged because of nature or battles fought long ago, when parts of you just don't function the way they used to, you WILL recall the words of an old bastard reminding you that sometimes that "new technology" can be trumped by old school choices. And because of your own personal limitations, those things that you championed years ago will be useless and those you declared obsolete have become the perfect answer to your dilemma, thus not obsolete.
Years ago I used to shoot .45 ACP almost exclusively but as I have aged I find that I shoot 9mm ( a caliber of which you highly praise) far better. Things change.
When you were young you never thought you would screw a fifty year old woman, but when you're sixty she looks pretty damn good. Definitely not obsolete.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I disagree with that definition. Obsolete can still be used or not used anymore. A muzzle loader is obsolete but it still can be used. A flintlock is obsolete but it can still be used.

Many still use flintlocks because they just like them. They'll still work in a pinch for self defense but they aren't ideal. The same goes for anything else.

 

[FLA45fan]

You disagree with that definition? Per Webster ob · sol · lete adjective 1. no longer produced or used; out of date.

Revolvers are in production and in current use. Will, normally you present some very strong and compelling arguments, but this time, well, no.
Trying to twist the meaning of a word so that it fits your argument doesn't work for me. Instead your argument is further weakened.

I'm done. Good day.

Fla, out.

 

[ryguy]

A buddy of mine is an instructor for a class calling “Surviving the Griz” based out of Montana. One exercise the class does, is essentially the Tueller drill, where a target advances on you from 7 yards. They found that more times than not, something like a Glock 20 to be much faster, resulting in more rounds on target.

I truly believe a drill like this shows just how fucked you are. I personally wouldn’t take a revolver. The reason being, I carry a G19 every day. So for me I would rather have something like a G20 for the sake of muscle memory, and faster follow up shots.

Use whatever works best for ya, and I’m not saying that has to be a semi auto. If you can unholster and get a shot on target with your 500 S&W in under 1.5 seconds... rock on

 

[Deplorable Me]

.45-70

 

[Marine Cpl]

You disagree with that definition? Per Webster ob · sol · lete adjective 1. no longer produced or used; out of date.

Revolvers are in production and in current use. Will, normally you present some very strong and compelling arguments, but this time, well, no.
Trying to twist the meaning of a word so that it fits your argument doesn't work for me. Instead your argument is further weakened.

I'm done. Good day.

Fla, out.

Depends on the source.

obsolete Definition in the Cambridge English Dictionary

obsolete

no longer used or needed, usually because something newer and better has replaced it:

Typewriters have been rendered obsolete by computers.

 

[Robin]

I disagree with that definition. Obsolete can still be used or not used anymore. A muzzle loader is obsolete but it still can be used. A flintlock is obsolete but it can still be used.

Many still use flintlocks because they just like them. They'll still work in a pinch for self defense but they aren't ideal. The same goes for anything else.

HEY!!! One more crack and your going on ignore!
Robin Relvant

 

[Marine Cpl]

HEY!!! One more crack and your going on ignore!
Robin Relvant

You weren't in mind when I wrote that. Lol. I just know that many like them for historical purposes same as old Army black powder revolvers. There's a coolness factor there that I can understand.

 

[Blimey]

Yup

Traditional bow is basically bottom of my list on weapons I want in my hand when a bear is charging.

Anybody post this year? This guy is a tough bastard to take this video and look on the bright side while part of his ear is hanging off him **GRAPHIC**

Black bears are generally totes adorbs, but I would not go into brown bear country without being armed, and I don't think bear spray would be enough.

I watch a show on netflix sometimes--life below zero--and a woman there named Sue who owns a small airport/camp in the absolute middle of nowhere was attacked by a grizzly. Now she 100% of the time open-carries a nice big shiny revolver, and on one episode she goes hunting with an AR10, which makes pretty short work of a grizzly.