Black bear defense gun?

[Upstate43]

For self defense they are.

Noted. But this thread, or at least this particular tangent of the thread, is about bear (predator) defense, not anti-personnel defense.

There is a reason why many, many hunting and fishing guides still carry revolvers chambered in magnum cartridges. 10mm has seen a resurgence as of late, but I don't see revolvers losing their relevance in the hunting/wilderness niche anytime soon.

Revolvers are in no way obsolete when it comes to hunting big game and/or defending against dangerous predators. Still quite a few manufacturers making older models and coming out with newer ones.

 

[Bananabandit]

Why not just use a BFR 45/70?

 

[Marine Cpl]

Noted. But this thread, or at least this particular tangent of the thread, is about bear (predator) defense, not anti-personnel defense.

There is a reason why many, many hunting and fishing guides still carry revolvers chambered in magnum cartridges. 10mm has seen a resurgence as of late, but I don't see revolvers losing their relevance in the hunting/wilderness niche anytime soon.

Revolvers are in no way obsolete when it comes to hunting big game and/or defending against dangerous predators. Still quite a few manufacturers making older models and coming out with newer ones.

I've never said obsolete for hunting big game or never once mentioned self defense against humans. I said self defense against charging bear. I stated the inadequacies of a revolver vs a semi auto against a charging bear. Not hunting. While hunting, you are doing the stalking and have distance and time in your favor. I guess you never fully read my responses. That's okay though. Once someone has their mind made up, it's made up.

Perhaps someone on the fence reading this can see my points about a lower recoiling, higher capacity weapon with a lighter trigger that has a capability to be double tapped being better than a high recoiling, heavy triggered, low capacity weapon against a charging bear.

More accurate shots on target is always better than just 1 or 2 shots.

 

[Upstate43]

I've never said obsolete for hunting big game or never once mentioned self defense against humans. I said self defense against charging bear. I stated the inadequacies of a revolver vs a semi auto against a charging bear. Not hunting. I guess you never fully read my responses. That's okay though. Once someone has their mind made up, it's made up.

Perhaps someone on the fence reading this can see my points about a lower recoiling, higher capacity weapon with a lighter trigger that has a capability to be double tapped being better than a high recoiling, heavy triggered, low capacity weapon against a charging bear.

More accurate shots on target is always better than 1 or 2.

Alright, well I guess we need to get the memo out to all those guides and hunters that they shouldn't be carrying those magnum revolvers for bear defense because they're "obsolete."

 

[Deplorable Me]

Screw it, ordered a Glock 20 from my cousin. FUAC and your 10 round mags.

 

[ryguy]

wise choice.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Alright, well I guess we need to get the memo out to all those guides and hunters that they shouldn't be carrying those magnum revolvers for bear defense because they're "obsolete."

This guide didn't get the older revolver memo that's been circling around for years.

Alaska Outfitter Defends Fishermen from Raging Grizzly with 9mm Pistol

 

[BMF JK]

I personally carry a G20 while in the woods for whatever animal protection. I prefer a semi auto due to my proficiency and accuracy with semi auto compared to a revolver. That’s not to say no one can run a revolver as well as I can run a semi auto. True ya get more capacity in a semi but someone who is accurate and proficient can deliver some serious devastation on target with a magnum caliber. I can see both sides to the revolver or auto debate .
One advantage I can think of for the revolver after reading this thread would be an up close , personal and muzzle contact with a pissed off bear . It is possible in some cases that you wouldn’t have time to draw your handgun before a bear was already on you . In that case while fighting for my life and managed to unholster my weapon I’d naturally stuff that muzzle in its chest and run that gun dry . I think we all know the likely outcome would be with a semi auto in that scenario.
I say carry whatever you trust your life with , if you made a poor choice...well that’s your problem not mine ! Lol Just my

 

[Marine Cpl]

wise choice.

Hmm. He said everything I said. He was receptive to others suggestions and even tried it for himself after previously settling for that .44 Magnum. Perhaps if you guys test it and see which platform will put more accurate rounds into a 6 inch target you'll see what technology could do for you.

Or you could just ignore it and recite what the old timers have been saying throughout the years so you don't get your hands sullied with a plastic gun.

 

[BMF JK]

I’m thinking old Jerry here has no handicap with a revolver. This guy is insane!!

 

[Acer-m14]

i think everyone left out fast sneakers if in bear woods with partner or group ... who can run the fastest .. LOL ..

 

[Upstate43]

This guide didn't get the older revolver memo that's been circling around for years.

Alaska Outfitter Defends Fishermen from Raging Grizzly with 9mm Pistol

Just because something is possible, doesn't mean it's probable. For the record, that guide in question got a series of broad side shots on a bear that was charging someone else (one of his clients). Yes, the 9mm (assuming the appropriate loads) can work, in certain situations. However, most guides and hunters who spend day-after-day hiking through grizzly country don't carry 9mm....there is a reason for that. If I had a brown bear, or even a back one, charging right at me, 9mm would not be my first choice. It's a great self-defense round, awesome for competition or target practice, but it has limited usefulness for hunting/predator defense.

Hmm. He said everything I said. He was receptive to others suggestions and even tried it for himself after previously settling for that .44 Magnum. Perhaps if you guys test it and see which platform will put more accurate rounds into a 6 inch target you'll see what technology could do for you.

Keep in mind, he was using a small/light .44 magnum (less than 3" barrel) revolver as the basis for this comparison. Those light .44 magnum's, heck even the lightweight scandium .357 magnums, are notorious for being hard to handle. As well some of them are a bit neutered with the shorter barrel length.

Some people are starting to use 10mm semi-auto's for the purpose of bear defense. A lot of the guides and hunters who are spending the most time in grizzly country are still carrying +4" magnum revolvers. I don't think that has anything to do with stubborn "old-timers." I think people up north are inclined to use cartridges that have a proven track record.

IMHO, if you're going to carry a pistol in brown bear country, it should either be a 10mm semi-auto (which conventional wisdom would say is the bare minimum) or a full-sized magnum revolver with at least a 4" barrel. The people who carry those lightweight, less than 4" magnum revolvers are asking for trouble because, as the video shows, the recoil is quite atrocious.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I'm not saying the 9mm is ideal. It could work in a pinch as evidenced above with brown bear using the proper ammo for it but it's not ideal or the right tool for the job unless we are talking about small black bear. Small black bear aren't indestructible. The ones I've seen are only a couple hundred pounds. At least by me.

But no matter how you slice it, a 10mm is more controllable than any .44 Magnum revolver no matter what the barrel length is on that .44 Magnum due to the recoil spring and the ergonomics of the weapon because your grip is higher up on the bore line compared to a revolver. You get back on target faster because of that and also because the trigger pull is 5 lbs compared to 10 to 12 lbs. On top of that, you can doubletap. A turning cylinder on a revolver doesn't allow that.

Now why do some guides still carry revolvers? For the same reason you do. It's what they know or what they heard someone tell them. But those guides that train with semi autos know that more shots can be placed on target with a semi auto compared to a revolver. Just because a guide carries X, It doesn't mean he's an expert. Most never had to fight for their life against a bear. They get the same information as everyone else. That argument is moot.

Anyway, you do what you want. No one is going to stop you. If you feel 5 shots is enough and you'll never miss than 5 shots is enough. For me, I know I may miss. I may be distracted or have my hands full. I may be asleep and groggy in a tent. If I do miss, I would want 10 more rounds. If I miss again, I want 9 more rounds. He may very well get me before I shoot the 3 rd round but I still want that chance. And if I don't miss, I still want more rounds to make sure he stays down. The last thing I would want is a spinning cylinder not making any more noise and I need more because I missed or I hit non vital areas.

 

[Upstate43]

But no matter how you slice it, a 10mm is more controllable than any .44 Magnum revolver no matter what the barrel length is on that .44 Magnum due to the recoil spring and the ergonomics of the weapon because your grip is higher up on the bore line compared to a revolver.

I agree with that. I even said as much in one of my earlier posts. But there is a tradeoff for that better control: the cartridge has less energy and has a lower sectional density. I don't think one cartridge is necessarily "better" than the other for predator defense. Every person just needs to choose one that is best suited to his/her needs and capabilities.

You get back on target faster because of that and also because the trigger pull is 5 lbs compared to 10 to 12 lbs. On top of that, you can doubletap. A turning cylinder on a revolver doesn't allow that.

Okay, fair enough, but I still think you over-estimate how many rounds a 10mm semi-auto can squeeze off in a sudden bear encounter.

Now why do some guides still carry revolvers? For the same reason you do. It's what they know or what they heard someone tell them. But those guides that train with semi autos know that more shots can be placed on target with a semi auto compared to a revolver. Just because a guide carries X, It doesn't mean he's an expert. Most never had to fight for their life against a bear. They get the same information as everyone else. That argument is moot.

No offense, but most of the internet people writing and opining about how 10mm is the best option for bear defense are basing their "expertise" on hearsay and youtube videos. The same goes for proponents of most cartridges. A lot, though not all, of the guides in Alaska, Yukon and BC have had physical encounters with bear, some have even had employ lethal force. So yes, all these different points of view are ultimately subjective, but I put a lot more stock in what a veteran hunting guide says and does (for the purposes of predator defense) over what some forum-goer or gun journalist advocates.

Those guides aren't carrying revolvers because they're stuck in the past or because they don't know any better....that's a pretty casual dismissal of how much experience some of those guides have under their belt.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Empty bear spray can found near Wyoming guide killed in bear attack

 

[GOYABEAN]

Empty bear spray can found near Wyoming guide killed in bear attack

Not a good choice field dressing game around BIG bear country without having a few people on guard

 

[Smoke Jensen]

4 inch barrel.

.357 seven shot or .44 magnum 5 shot?

Seven rounds 158gr or 5 rounds 240gr?

I actually use a 5.5” bbl Blackhawk in .45 Colt. Or you could go with the .44 mag.

 

[Smoke Jensen]

I don’t like the 357 for bear.. The 44 is fine. I. Prefer a heavy loaded 45 Colt. Regardless of firearm, you need to be very proficient with it. Heavy hard cast wide meplat.

 

[spat]

Bigger isn't always better. A gun that has more rounds that's more controllable is the one that you should get.

To a point.

In a bear attack, how many rounds will you be able to get off ?

If you're only going to have time to fire 5 rounds, a gun that holds 30 isn't going to help. Better 5 more effective rounds than a 3/4 full magazine next to your corpse.

 

[Marine Cpl]

To a point.

In a bear attack, how many rounds will you be able to get off ?

If you're only going to have time to fire 5 rounds, a gun that holds 30 isn't going to help. Better 5 more effective rounds than a 3/4 full magazine next to your corpse.

True. If you can control those shots to be able to able to hit vitals on a moving target quickly. Most can't get past that and think that one shot of a .44 Magnum to the ass will knock a bear down permanently. No matter what, you still need good shot placement to vitals.

Unless you are that Mirculek dude, you can always shoot at 10mm or .45 Super autoloader more accurately and faster due to the lesser recoil, your hand higher up on the bore, a recoil spring, and the lighter trigger.

Anyone that could shoot a big bore revolver decently will do better with an autoloader and no matter what anyone says, more rounds is better.

 

[HighlandLofts]

If attacked by a bear which would be highly unlikely in NYS you would most likely need a shot in the brain to end it before you got mauled.
Any shot in a vital would work but I think you would get some bodily damage before the bear became incapacitated.
Penetration is the ticket, if being attacked you more then likely would have a frontal shot whick takes more itration then a side shot in my oppinion.
If your shot does not penetrate deep enough you are done. I read somewhere that for big game like these you should use a hardcast bullet for maximum penetration.

I gave my oldest son a 44 magnum Ruger Blackhawn a few years ago. He loaded it for it and used Hornady XTP hollow points to use for deer hunting. He connected two shots side shots in a six point buck a couple of weeks ago. Both projectiles were with in the body mushroomed out perfect. But the deer didn't drop in its tracks. It took a minute for it to become incapacitated.


It that was a bear I think it would of took longer to become incapacitated.
His shots were taken with time on his side the deer didn't know he was there.
If you were being charged by a bear you have a very short time to deal with the situation after you get done shitting your pants.

I have a friend out here in Washington state that borrowed a 44 magnum or a 41 magnum revolver to carry during elk bow season.
Last year he didn't borrow a handgun and had a potential issue with a sow black bear.iw was way back in some rugged terrain at a ground blind and heard a weird noise it ended up being a very young black bear cub.
When that cub finally seen him it started moving his way to check him out. When mama came with in sight she wasn't to happy about the situation and became defensive.
She started snorting, growling and did a couple of fake charges.all he had for his personal defense was his compound now. He said if he had one of the revolvers he would of shot hern but that wasn't an option.
While this all was taking place the little cub ran off and climbed a tree. When the mama bear seen the little cub scurry off & climb the tree it went over to the tree and stood up sniffing. My friend was walking backwards making distance between him and her. When she focused on him he would stand perfectly still. When she focused on the cub he made more distance between him and her.

This summer he went out and bought himself a 44 magnum revolver.

He said he didn't borrow one of mine because he has been out in the deep woods hunting for 25 years and never had any reason to use a sidearm until this encounter.
Now he carries his 44 magnum revolver any time he goes up in the mountains.


Here is a nice 8 point buck he took last year with his 10mm Kimber, two shots.



Handguns just don't have the high shocking power of a rifle or shotgun.
Both of these deer took two good shots at a relativity short distance and did not drop immediately.

 

[SomeSoldier]

Ruger® Super Redhawk Alaskan® Double-Action Revolver Models

Here yea go.

 

[Jmac00]

up here in the NE, I think if you encounter a black bear, you'll want a 45-70, 444, 450 a big bore, hard hitting 405gr+ bullett moving at 1700+ fps

Ballistic test show a 45-70-405gr laser cast bullet penetrating ballistic gell 32"+. Not to many animals on the North American continent can stand up to that

 

[Robin]

I'm working on a .50 bear gun. I'll post it when finished. Smoothbore, it gives you options.
Robin

 

[Deplorable Me]

I'm beginning to think about a 10mm Glock 20. 10 rounds in NY or 15 in PA.

 

[nortatoga]

The 10 Best Bear-Defense Guns for When You're Out in the Woods

Some people consider it almost sacrilegious to recommend a semi-automatic handgun chambered in 10mm Auto as a bear defense gun. However, the 10mm Auto is no slouch, and if you place your shots properly, it'll do the trick.

The Glock 20 has several big advantages that make it a great bear-defense gun. It's accurate, it gives the shooter the ability to take rapid follow-up shots, it has a large magazine, it's incredibly reliable, it's easy to shoot and it's easy to carry.

That being said, there are better choices for those who live in areas with lots of grizzly or brown bears. However, the Glock 20 is a very underrated self-defense gun in black bear country.

 

[ECU Pirates]

Pennsylvania woman attacked by bear, saved by dog named 'Bear'

 

[Upstate43]

To be perfectly honest, I'd never buy a sidearm purely for black bear defense. Yes, black bear can, and have been known, to attack humans. But by and large they ignore us and want to be left alone (unless you leave your trash unsecured).

I'd buy a .357 or .44 magnum if I were living in brown bear country.

I would not buy a pistol (semi-auto or revolver) purely for black bear defense; it just seems like overkill. If I already owned a semi-auto pistol chambered in a conventional self-defense cartridge (9mm, .40s&w, .45 acp) I would bring that if I truly felt there was a need (reports of black bear stealing camper's food). But I have camped and hiked quite a bit in black bear country armed with nothing more than a small folder knife...just being aware of your surroundings and knowing how to act around curious/aggressive black bears is often enough to see you through safely. If I were going into an area known for aggressive black bears, I'd probably pick up a can of bear spray before getting a dedicated pistol.

I'm not saying black bear aren't a potential threat, but I also think some of the "outdoor" gun-owners over-exaggerate the danger associated with those animals.

 

[stokes]

Kind of what I said earlier.I see black bears quite often,twice in the past year just walking my dogs,couple of months ago had one walk thru my back yard and I'm only a couple hundred yards from town.A friend of mine and his wife spent an entire summer camping in the back country of Alaska a couple years ago,one of the areas they were camping a couple days had recent brown bear "activity".There were rangers there one night and they told them the best "defense" for bear was a flare gun,the 2 rangers were carrying them at the time.Said its very effective when fired at the ground in the bears direction.

 

[Robin]

The last time this subject came up I was doing some research and happened on two 'bear pistols', they were from the southeastern Appalachia's. I thought they were pretty cool so I whipped one up. 15-7/8" barrel, .50 Caliber smooth bore, so You could load it with shot and it would be a snake gun, I like versitility!! HaH!!
Robin