CCW Holder Wrongly Convicted in 5 Minutes, for Defending His Life from BLM Thugs

[Marine Cpl]

We were talking a fist fight Willie, not knives clubs rocks or whatever added on.....LOL

Will, Have you ever been in a fist fight?

Plenty. As a teen and a young, dumb, and full of cum Marine. . I'm 42 now. I don't get into fist fights. I walk away and or warn to stay away. If the warning is not met, well then my life is in danger and I will act accordingly.

 

[Doc8404]

My USCCA insurance states that ANY time I need to defend myself, with or without a weapon, with or without actual physical interaction, that I'm covered. Of course, I've never tested it, but that's what it states

Ccw Safe is this.

Any self-defense shooting or use of force with any weapon or object or any legal firearm, even those outside of your concealed carry permit, occurring in your residence during the commission of a crime against you, your family, or occupants of any place where you can legally possess a legal firearm. A legal firearm includes any firearm that meets the applicable definition of “firearm” under state and federal laws.

 

[GOPerfect]

From watching the videos posted all over the Internet, it does not look to me that he was in fear of his life. He had plenty of opportunities to leave, get out of dodge. He decided to monkey around with his camera and take more pictures.

From how quickly he re-holsters his gun it seems like he never intended on using his gun. Looks like he drew the gun for no other reason than to show the crowd he was armed.

I do not know if his conviction is a good decision or not, I was not at the incident, I was not in the court room, and I have no idea what was going through his head at the time.

In Oregon, many laws regarding ambiguous situations use what is known as a “reasonable person standard.” Many of Oregon’s laws about personal protection and self defense use a variation of this phrase. I am a reasonable person, from everything that I have watched, I would NOT have unholstered my gun. Just saying.

 

[DoD1776]

The courts always use. " What a reasonable man would do " Now you seem to think just because someone gets into your face it is life threading.

Have you ever been in the service? I doubt it. DI's do this all the time. Next time you see someone wearing a hoodie and carrying flagpole are you going to pull a gun? Yea he was scared of getting his butt kicked but no one touched him other that that white guy earlier. No crime, no assault, just people getting in his face. You are going on the assumption he faced great bodily harm of even death in this situation which is not evident in the video. I always kinda figure if my gun comes out it comes out smoking and I will deal with the consequences later. I saw no deadly threats but perhaps you think that that possibly getting your ass kicked is somehow justification. Perhaps you should tell the fellow with the flagpole never come to a gunfight with a flag. You make assumptions just as he did. I see a airplane at 4000 feet in a nose dive. Does it mean it will crash? Hardly.
We won't know the answer until it occurs. He jumped the gun so to speak and was threatening others with deadly force. A potential ass kicking
is not an excuse for what he did.

Only person I've ever seen threaten a DI with a gun is gomer Pyle. I'm pretty sure a guy in the military who is a recruit and still in Bootcamp won't be having a CC let's remember he voluntarily joined the military knowing he will get yelled at...

 

[dwa12479]

Do you think you can legally pull a gun in a simple fist fight because you are loosing. How about someone beating your head in while your laying on the ground. How about someone putting the boot to you? How about someone using a club on you. If you do not know what deadly force or reasonable is you best not carry a weapon.

If you are the initial aggressor or the fist fight started with two party consent, then you absolutely CANNOT claim self defense when pulling a firearm to defend yourself if you begin to lose. I don't see nor have I heard any evidence that the guy in this story started a confrontation. If he was talking a bunch of trash or antagonizing the mob in some way (and his mere presence there is does not satisfy those conditions...), then he's an asshole. If you are retreating as this man is, with, again, dozens of aggressors within his 21 foot Tueller radius, and he reasonably believes that his life is in serious danger, then he should be justified in what he did.

This is one of those cases that we all talk about when guns are used in self-defense without a shot being fired that gun control advocates like to pretend don't exist.

 

[ADK]

[QUOTE="dwa12479, This is one of those cases that we all talk about when guns are used in self-defense without a shot being fired that gun control advocates like to pretend don't exist.[/QUOTE]

self-defense

• Examples
• Word Origin

See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
noun
1.
the act of defending one's person when physically attacked, as by countering blows or overcoming an assailant:
the art of self-defense.
2.
a claim or plea that the use of force or injuring or killing another was necessary in defending one's own person from physical attack:
He shot the man who was trying to stab him and pleaded self-defense at the murder trial.
3.
an act or instance of defending or protecting one's own interests, property, ideas, etc., as by argument or strategy.

 

[dwa12479]

self-defense

• Examples
• Word Origin

See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
noun
1.
the act of defending one's person when physically attacked, as by countering blows or overcoming an assailant:
the art of self-defense.
2.
a claim or plea that the use of force or injuring or killing another was necessary in defending one's own person from physical attack:
He shot the man who was trying to stab him and pleaded self-defense at the murder trial.
3.
an act or instance of defending or protecting one's own interests, property, ideas, etc., as by argument or strategy.

Thank you for making my point.

 

[DoD1776]

[QUOTE="dwa12479, This is one of those cases that we all talk about when guns are used in self-defense without a shot being fired that gun control advocates like to pretend don't exist.

self-defense

• Examples
• Word Origin

See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
noun
1.
the act of defending one's person when physically attacked, as by countering blows or overcoming an assailant:
the art of self-defense.
2.
a claim or plea that the use of force or injuring or killing another was necessary in defending one's own person from physical attack:
He shot the man who was trying to stab him and pleaded self-defense at the murder trial.
3.
an act or instance of defending or protecting one's own interests, property, ideas, etc., as by argument or strategy.[/QUOTE]

 

[Robin]

Careful using dictionary definitions when talking about law. they are not always the same and the legal definition for a word in legalese may vary from state to state. Common sense has nothing to do with it and thats the way they want it.
Robin

 

[ADK]

Actually if you had read it correctly and understood the meaning of the definition and put it in proper context you would realize I did not make your point.

 

[Marine Cpl]

The only law or case law that matters is the one in Oregon.


Oregon v. Sandoval (2007), the Oregon State Supreme Court affirmed that deadly force is allowable when: “A person reasonably believes another person is using or about to use deadly force against him or her.” Again, my opinion is that your best option is to retreat if at all possible.

 

[dwa12479]

Actually if you had read it correctly and understood the meaning of the definition and put it in proper context you would realize I did not make your point.

I'd love to hear your interpretation then.

 

[GOPerfect]

One of the biggest issues here is what was going through his mind? His actions and lack thereof tell a story. I am curious if he took the stand in his own defense? If he did, was he able to articulate the amount of fear that he felt himself to be in? Saying that one is/was scared is very different than explaining it. From some of his actions, he does not seem that scared to me. The Prosecution would have asked him many questions of his actions after the gun was pulled. If he could not explain his actions, if he could not articulate fully, he failed in his own defense!

 

[ADK]

I'd love to hear your interpretation then.

OK, Here it goes.

(1) the act of defending one's person when physically attacked, as by countering blows or overcoming an assailant:
the art of self-defense. ....... Notice DWA that there is No physical attack on Strickland here in this case as stated in the above example

(2) a claim or plea that the use of force or injuring or killing another was necessary in defending one's own person from physical attack:
He shot the man who was trying to stab him and pleaded self-defense at the murder trial.... Notice here there is mention about someone
trying to stab someone....... That means a weapon was used. But in this case the only person banishing a weapon is Mike Strickland.
That makes him the first aggressor.

(3) an act or instance of defending or protecting one's own interests, property, ideas, etc., as by argument or strategy.

Strickland certainly had some kind of argument I would think in this case but the issue is pulling a weapon and pointing it at people
without any kind of physical attack or anyone threatening him with a weapon.

 

[ECU Pirates]

Do you think you can legally pull a gun in a simple fist fight because you are loosing. How about someone beating your head in while your laying on the ground. How about someone putting the boot to you? How about someone using a club on you. If you do not know what deadly force or reasonable is you best not carry a weapon.

Yes you can. If someone is putting the boots to you that is considered potentially deadly.

 

[GOPerfect]

OK, Here it goes.

(1) the act of defending one's person when physically attacked, as by countering blows or overcoming an assailant:
the art of self-defense. ....... Notice DWA that there is No physical attack on Strickland here in this case as stated in the above example

(2) a claim or plea that the use of force or injuring or killing another was necessary in defending one's own person from physical attack:
He shot the man who was trying to stab him and pleaded self-defense at the murder trial.... Notice here there is mention about someone
trying to stab someone....... That means a weapon was used. But in this case the only person banishing a weapon is Mike Strickland.
That makes him the first aggressor.

(3) an act or instance of defending or protecting one's own interests, property, ideas, etc., as by argument or strategy.

Strickland certainly had some kind of argument I would think in this case but the issue is pulling a weapon and pointing it at people
without any kind of physical attack or anyone threatening him with a weapon.

Me, I kind of understand where you are coming from...

Do not think for a moment that you need to actually be attacked prior to drawing your gun. You absolutely do NOT need that for justification. If he were to be completely surrounded and threats were being thrown his way, if all means of escape were gone, he may have been justified in being the first to bring a weapon into the mix.

 

[Robin]

Put the DA, Judge and Jury in that situation, one at a time with people that really want to fuck them up and then give me a decision. Hell, give me a court case!
Robin

 

[ADK]

Me, I kind of understand where you are coming from...

Do not think for a moment that you need to actually be attacked prior to drawing your gun. You absolutely do NOT need that for justification. If he were to be completely surrounded and threats were being thrown his way, if all means of escape were gone, he may have been justified in being the first to bring a weapon into the mix.

I woulda, I coulda, I shoulda, but I screwed up and now everyone is in my face and I am scared so do I exit left and leave the area or confront these libs
like a real man. After I have pointed my weapon at them I will hang around and chat with a few .....LOL

Hi Ho, Hi Ho, it's off to Jail I go...........

 

[GOPerfect]

I woulda, I coulda, I shoulda, but I screwed up and now everyone is in my face and I am scared so do I exit left and leave the area or confront this libs
like a real man. After I have pointed my weapon at them I will hang around and chat with a few .....LOL

Hi Ho, Hi Ho, it's off to Jail I go...........

I am actually seeing this almost the same as you are so don't get your panties in a bunch. As I said, looks like he may have put the cart before the horse in this situation.

 

[ADK]

I am actually seeing this almost the same as you are so don't get your panties in a bunch. As I said, looks like he may have put the cart before the horse in this situation.

How did you know I was wearing panties.....LOL

 

[Cooolone]

First off, there's a lot of armchair lawyering going on... Just lol...!

 

[Marine Cpl]

OK, Here it goes.

(1) the act of defending one's person when physically attacked, as by countering blows or overcoming an assailant:
the art of self-defense. ....... Notice DWA that there is No physical attack on Strickland here in this case as stated in the above example

(2) a claim or plea that the use of force or injuring or killing another was necessary in defending one's own person from physical attack:
He shot the man who was trying to stab him and pleaded self-defense at the murder trial.... Notice here there is mention about someone
trying to stab someone....... That means a weapon was used. But in this case the only person banishing a weapon is Mike Strickland.
That makes him the first aggressor.

(3) an act or instance of defending or protecting one's own interests, property, ideas, etc., as by argument or strategy.

Strickland certainly had some kind of argument I would think in this case but the issue is pulling a weapon and pointing it at people
without any kind of physical attack or anyone threatening him with a weapon.

I see what you are saying but a weapon doesn't always have to be presented. Put your wife, sister, or mother in that situation without the camera and just minding their own business. Not everyone can "Throw Down" like you allude that is required if no weapons are displayed.

It doesn't mean you are a wimp or anything. Some guys can't fight or just don't want to because they fear for their lives and don't want to take a gamble. Every situation is different for everyone. For this guy, I believe he feared for his life at one point. When they slowed down their approach, he re-holstered. In his mind the threat had dwindled down at that moment.

 

[ADK]

Let me just say this. When I fear for my life or someones else's I come out fighting. He is very lucky he is in Jail. Anyone there could have killed him
with just cause after he pulled his weapon and started pointing it at people.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Let me just say this. When I fear for my life or someones else's I come out fighting. He is very lucky he is in Jail. Anyone there could have killed him
with just cause after he pulled his weapon and started pointing it at people.

Good luck. I hope your fists don't ever fail you if you ever get jumped and it gets out of hand.

 

[dwa12479]

OK, Here it goes.

(1) the act of defending one's person when physically attacked, as by countering blows or overcoming an assailant:
the art of self-defense. ....... Notice DWA that there is No physical attack on Strickland here in this case as stated in the above example

(2) a claim or plea that the use of force or injuring or killing another was necessary in defending one's own person from physical attack:
He shot the man who was trying to stab him and pleaded self-defense at the murder trial.... Notice here there is mention about someone
trying to stab someone....... That means a weapon was used. But in this case the only person banishing a weapon is Mike Strickland.
That makes him the first aggressor.

(3) an act or instance of defending or protecting one's own interests, property, ideas, etc., as by argument or strategy.

Strickland certainly had some kind of argument I would think in this case but the issue is pulling a weapon and pointing it at people
without any kind of physical attack or anyone threatening him with a weapon.

#1 and #2 don't apply, as he wasn't attacked nor did he discharge his weapon.

#3 is the one I highlighted in your above post. He absolutely has a case there. A weapon DOES NOT need to be presented for you to defend yourself with a firearm. The conditions that need to be satisfied are : does my potential attacker(s) have the INTENT and ABILITY to cause me serious bodily harm or death? In this case, both of those are true based purely on what I've seen on the videos. You do not need to wait for the first punch to be thrown, and there does not need to be a weapon on the other side either. Being alone against an angry mob is a huge disparity of force. And judging by the actions of some of those coming after him and previous actions from antifa mobs, intent is there to do him harm. (The video at 1:37 clearly shows mob intent to intimidate as he's stalked backwards by the BLM guy and the other guy comes up behind him and gives him shoulder job) He did the right thing in retreating and not firing.

I'm very interested in the foreplay to this video. What led up to this chain of events? If Strickland went there with intent to cause a confrontation, started talking a lot of trash and antagonizing the mob, then he's an asshole and deserves what he got. That's exactly what antifa does when they "counter-protest", they're baiting a fight because they know the media will portray them as peaceful counter protesters attacked by the hordes of angry white supremacist Trump supporters. But if he was there minding his own business and trying to just get audio/video/photos of the event and they came after him, then I'd stand behind him all day.

 

[nortatoga]

It was stared above that Oregon you have a duty to retreat (like NY) Was his pathway to retreat block?

 

[GOPerfect]

It was stared above that Oregon you have a duty to retreat (like NY) Was his pathway to retreat block?

No, no it was not!

 

[nortatoga]

No, no it was not!

Well that's what it all comes down TOO!!

 

[Marine Cpl]

I disagree. There is already an Oregon Supreme Court case that says you have the authorization to use deadly physical force if YOU feel your life is in danger. The duty to retreat only applies if you can actually do so safely. You CANNOT retreat if the assailant or assailants do not let you by continuously pursuing you. The link below contains the whole decision and the text that I posted numerous times already. This ruling specifically talks about the duty to retreat.

You guys need to read the actual ruling before you form opinions based on nothing.

State v. Sandoval

Oregon v. Sandoval (2007)

The Oregon State Supreme Court affirmed that deadly force is allowable when: “A person reasonably believes another person is using or about to use deadly force against him or her.”

"The burden of proof is on the state to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant did not act in self-defense.

"* * * * *

 

[dwa12479]

It was stared above that Oregon you have a duty to retreat (like NY) Was his pathway to retreat block?

It looks like he was retreating the entire video. Would you turn your back on that mob? I sure as hell wouldn't. And as long as they're pursuing and well within 21 feet, they can be a threat.