Co-ownership of Handgun

[alistair]

I have an old friend who is aging and in poor health.
He has several handguns and numerous rifles. He has a daughter who is a PA resident.

In the unfortunate case where he was to die; can his daughter come over and take the handguns back to Pennsylvania? Does she need to do any paperwork or Would it be easier if I was to add his handguns to my permit?

 

[Deplorable Me]

Have her check to see if the handguns could go to a PA FFL, one step. The PA FFL could write a receipt to get them taken off the NY permit as in the handguns were legally liquidated to an FFL.

 

[Steal2B]

Hopefully this pdf presentation "WHAT HAPPENS TO MY GUNS WHEN I DIE" attaches.
It was developed by
PETER P. VASILION, ESQ. Attorney and Counselor at Law who practices in New York State.

Shooters Committee on Political Education Erie County Chapter May 2015
Presentation

Dear Friends in the Shooting Sports:

The enclosed materials consist of news articles of interest, forms, and other documents presented here for educational purposes. These are intended as a reference and illustrations of various problems and considerations an individual, such as yourself, begins to think about planning your Estate. Forms, case law and other materials enclosed may not be applicable to you or your circumstances. Further, as time marches on, new developments are bound to occur in the law and these materials are sure to become outdated at some point. No legal advice is given herein. You should consult with an attorney of your choosing before making any decisions about provisions for your Last Will and Testament, who you authorize to take possession of your property, and how you want your property handled in the event you are hospitalized or incapacitated. I would be happy to help you or your family with these considerations on an individual basis. Further, I hope that tonight presentation is informative and useful. Very truly yours, LAW OFFICE OF PETER VASILION

 

[Podmonkey]

All I know is you don't need a permit to own hanguns in PA nor are there background checks on private sales.

 

[Calculon]

Why doesn’t he go visit her in PA and leave them there?

 

[Joe Blow]

Would it be easier if I was to add his handguns to my permit?

Possibly, dependent on what the final disposition of the handguns will be. Handguns crossings state lines are supposed to go FFL to FFL.
So, either add them to your permit before he passes, or, upon his death get them to an FFL right away. If they're on your permit when he passes take possession right away. If not on your permit, get them to an FFL. That FFL will issue a receipt stating that he has received the handguns. The family / estate of the decendent will use that receipt, along with a copy of the death certificate, to clear his ownership with his permitting authority.
If you do have co-ownership, you can do whatever is legal. If an FFL has possession, he'll legally dispose of them as per the wishes of the family / estate.

...

 

[Eddie Gunks]

Possibly, dependent on what the final disposition of the handguns will be. Handguns crossings state lines are supposed to go FFL to FFL.
So, either add them to your permit before he passes, or, upon his death get them to an FFL right away. If they're on your permit when he passes take possession right away. If not on your permit, get them to an FFL. That FFL will issue a receipt stating that he has received the handguns. The family / estate of the decendent will use that receipt, along with a copy of the death certificate, to clear his ownership with his permitting authority.
If you do have co-ownership, you can do whatever is legal. If an FFL has possession, he'll legally dispose of them as per the wishes of the family / estate.

...

They need go go ffl to ffl if they are changing ownership. She could own them now.
She just needs to come pick them up.

 

[Joe Blow]

They need go go ffl to ffl if they are changing ownership. She could own them now.
She just needs to come pick them up.

The OP asked if it's easier one way or the other...
"She", being a PA resident, can't "just pick them up". If they are transferred via FFL's to her in PA she can take possession.

...

 

[Vapor]

If it pleases the crown...

Sorry about his poor health though.

 

[Acer-m14]

They need go go ffl to ffl if they are changing ownership. She could own them now.
She just needs to come pick them up.

so in PA you just need to be a resident to have a pistol with no PP if no carry .. ??

if so .. crap i need to buy a 120 sqr ft plot for a tent then

 

[Vapor]

Im not 100% sure but i think you can open carry with a hunting licence.


In free America, You go to a store and fill out the same back ground check you do here for a rifle, and like a rifle, walk out with it same day. Your permit is called the constitution/ I'm a free man and I do what I want...

 

[Eddie Gunks]

The OP asked if it's easier one way or the other...
"She", being a PA resident, can't "just pick them up". If they are transferred via FFL's to her in PA she can take possession.

...

If they are her guns she can. If she owns them then no “transfer” is taking place.

I have had my guns in other states for a number of reasons. And they are still mine. No need to transfer.

You never want to send your pistol to an out of state ffl, to “transfer” to yourself in that state. It can not be “transfered to you. But you can send it to yourself and pick it up at your hotel. Etc etc

 

[Podmonkey]

so in PA you just need to be a resident to have a pistol with no PP if no carry .. ??

Correct. However when transporting the handguns in a vehicle the usual rules apply.
Unloaded, seperate from ammo, secured on a case, ect. Actually I think this applies to non residents also.

Im not 100% sure but i think you can open carry with a hunting licence.

Not 100% sure but but I don't think you need anything to open carry in PA. Until you get in a vehicle. PA considers loaded, unsecure handguns to be "concealed" handguns. Then all the usual rules suddenly apply.

 

[MoMan]

Contrary to what the PP clerks will tell ya, you DO NOT need to send your own handguns from a NYS FFL to another state's FFL , unless the state they are being transferred into requires it. I brought ALL of MY handguns directly here with me. The PP clerk lost her mind when she found out, going so far as to tell me; "YOU CAN'T DO THAT"! I explained to her that I certainly could because I verified it with my Local Sheriff. Her response; "Well HE doesn't understand our laws"! To which I so graciously informed her that he really doesn't give a shit about NYS' bullshit laws.

 

[wtb12ga]

If they are her guns she can. If she owns them then no “transfer” is taking place.

I have had my guns in other states for a number of reasons. And they are still mine. No need to transfer.

You never want to send your pistol to an out of state ffl, to “transfer” to yourself in that state. It can not be “transfered to you. But you can send it to yourself and pick it up at your hotel. Etc etc

They aren’t her guns though. The only way NY father can legally transfer guns to a PA daughter without going through an FFL is actually moving to PA himself first. Federal law requiring FFL for interstate transfer has no family exemption. To be clear; the gun does not have to cross state lines to be an interstate transfer. A transfer between residents of different states is governed by federal law requiring an FFL (and it must be to FFL of the recipients state if it is a handgun). That is why in private sales it is essential to see state ID or other sufficient proof of the recipients residency to avoid breaking federal law (irrelevant in NY thanks to FUAC now since private transfers without FFL are all illegal with the exception of long guns to immediate in-state family).

Now could he store his guns at her place for himself? I suppose so, but it could create a situation where it is ambiguous whether he actually illegally transferred the gun to her if they effectively end up in her possession. And it doesn’t solve anything for after he dies. (Unless you are just ignoring the law and going the “possession is nine-tenths of the law” route, which is risky when guns, criminal law and potentially fraught estate matters are involved.)

 

[Podmonkey]

They aren’t her guns though. The only way NY father can legally transfer guns to a PA daughter without going through an FFL is actually moving to PA himself first. Federal law requiring FFL for interstate transfer has no family exemption. Now could he store his guns at her place for himself? I suppose so, but it could create a situation where it is ambiguous whether he actually illegally transferred the gun to her if they effectively end up in her possession. And it doesn’t solve anything for after he dies. (Unless you are just ignoring the law and going the “possession is nine-tenths of the law” route, which is risky when guns, criminal law and potentially fraught estate matters are involved.)

Then just have them sent via FFLs then. That is not hard to arrange and the daughter just needs to do a quick background check to take possession of them.
Don't do anything in NYS. NY laws make everything impossible.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

@wtb12ga

Ok i am only going off the title, “co ownership of handguns”.

if she is an actual owner.......what i said above.

If not, then a transfer is in order.

 

[masterswimmer]

@wtb12ga

Ok i am only going off the title, “co ownership of handguns”.

if she is an actual owner.......what i said above.

If not, then a transfer is in order.

Dude, you're just waaaay too hung up on tranny's