Congress Wants Mattis To Intervene In Army Handgun Program

[dsdmmat]

Ok.

That would make every modern handgun in existence eligible though.

Not sure how a Glock "safety" prevents NDs, but I'm game...

The Glock safety mechanism will not increase or decrease NDs. All of our current weapon systems have safety mechanisms and we still have NDs, changing to a weapon without an external safety mechanism will not change this reality. I have seen the Glock, Sig, 1911, M10 revolver and beretta in our soldiers hands. The only one I have not seen involved in an ND is the M10 revolver ( I was only exposed to it for 5 years of my career which may explain that).

The safety mechanism also goes to the environment that the weapon is exposed to, example: bouncing in the back of an armored vehicle, being dropped while getting out of the vehicle, being involved in a helicopter crash or an IED event. The military weapon requires a system that prevents the weapon from being fired accidentally as well.

With the Glock the military will undoubtedly experience a different type of ND then they see right now but, i doubt the ND rate will increase.

 

[dsdmmat]

It's definitely a training issue. Handgun training for some reason is neglected compared to rifle training. I was never officially trained on the M9 yet I was given one as soon as I made Corporal at different times for no reason whatsoever. Still had the m16A2.

As far as the safety goes, due to the shear number of troops from all walks of life, you will get those that just can't get it. Every unit has the 5 clumsy guys that still can't follow the safety rules no matter how many times you smoke them for fucking up.

The Austrialian forces who I served with in Afghanistan had a completely different take on weapons safety than the American forces did. The Aussies believed it was personal responsibility vs the Americans seemed to blame it on leadership and training. My Aussie BG was frustrated by this and never could understand it.

 

[dsdmmat]

My dad was a Korean War draftee. He never served overseas but patrolled up and down the east coast with a mobile artillery unit. Two years of non-stop training with field artillery, 1911's and Garands. He and several other veteran's I know love the 1911. The sights could be improved but none the less the guys all loved them. MY WIFE loves the 1911 (yes .45 ACP), but hers has Novak sights. Maybe people are scared of the size of the brass coming out of the ejection port.

I am a 1911 fanboy, probably because I was raised on them. I never really liked the M9 even though I bought one to train with. I think the M9 would be/ have been better if it was just a decocking lever, instead of the safety/decocking lever and if it was mounted so that it was activated or deactivated in a more natural way (on up, off down). The M9 is completely backwards.

 

[dsdmmat]

I'm perceiving a paradox. It seems there are ND's with or without the safety.

I also don't have a preference of one handgun over another. Each model has it's own unique operating requirements.

Combat is hell, training can only prepare one so well then reality sets in. I'm no expert and I have seen LEO's and veteran's make common sense firearms safety mistakes at the range.

There is a paradox. A safety mechanism is required but, so is an operator that doesn't make errors. A safety that requires you to flip a lever or depress the trigger a certain amount before disengaging will always be defeated by Private Murphy. My Co-worker ( Retired Army CSM) told me about a his driver being so excited in his first firefight that instead of depressing the trigger he cycles the action because he believes the weapon malfunctioned. He did not even realize he had not fired a round. After he was told what he was doing wrong he got into the fight. Stress does make people do strange things.

 

[reinhardt]

All these opinions about 1 part of the sidearm. If all the rest of the parts are so controversial nothing will get decided upon. Oh wait, that's exactly whats happening with the XM17MHS.

 

[nfernaays]

Mad Dog shows up to the first meeting like....

 

[Mr. terzmo]

The 92 is smooth,dependable and felt good when firing. The issue I had was 9mm.....if you're down to a sidearm,I wanted something better than spitballs.
We've regressed since WW2 in firearms...Dad had a 30.06 semi auto rifle,heavy and poor capacity and a .45 for handgun.(again short on capacity but it did it's job up close)

 

[spat]

Just for the purpose of my education. Got a question for you, ever been to combat? Do you know how many soldiers have ND in theater in a year? I do not like the safety decocker on the beretta but, I never really liked the beretta either. I own one to become proficient with it as that is what I am issued overseas.

Carrying the gun in condition red requires a safety mechanism. Even with that safety mechanism, we still have soldiers manage to have NDs, shoot their buddies, equipment and manage to injure themselves.

The question isn't how many NDS there are with a safety, or without one, but how many were prevented by having one.

If most of the NDs were caused by some jackass who thought "the safety's on" then they could actually make things worse.

 

[Shadow2]

How often does the average soldier use a side arm in combat? serious question are there specific situation other then your primary going down. I'd would think if i'm down to my pistol and a spare mag i'm in some serious shit. I'd take what ever they gave me safety or not.

 

[Podmonkey]

I think a decocking DA/SA is the action of choice for military use, balancing speed with safety. A polymer frame to keep cost and weight down. Caliber? Well I think the 357 Sig would be a fine military caliber but you won't get away from 9mm Para. And if our forces do decide to issue HP rounds for their side arms then the 9mm is completely fine, desirable in fact. Really something like the CZ P09/7 or the FNX pistols would be good replacements. We also should remember that in military service the handgun isn't very important.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I think it's a non issue safety-wise since we are required to have an empty chamber at all times unless ready for use.

On base or in a fob it's was always without one in the chamber.

 

[Shadow2]

I was going to say CZ but i'm am a little bias ever since i've shot them.

but isn't our new president trying to Make America great Again, which would mean it would have to be a US made pistol, company owned by Americans. anything fit that bill.

I think a decocking DA/SA is the action of choice for military use, balancing speed with safety. A polymer frame to keep cost and weight down. Caliber? Well I think the 357 Sig would be a fine military caliber but you won't get away from 9mm Para. And if our forces do decide to issue HP rounds for their side arms then the 9mm is completely fine, desirable in fact. Really something like the CZ P09/7 or the FNX pistols would be good replacements. We also should remember that in military service the handgun isn't very important.

 

[spat]

I think it's a non issue safety-wise since we are required to have an empty chamber at all times unless ready for use.

On base or in a fob it's was always without one in the chamber.

That's a safety that every semi has. To disengage you rack the slide....

 

[Podmonkey]

I was going to say CZ but i'm am a little bias ever since i've shot them.

but isn't our new president trying to Make America great Again, which would mean it would have to be a US made pistol, owned by Americans.

Who is making a domestic polymer frame DA/SA? Striker is fine too, just a little less margin for error is all, give Smith a chance to up with a sweetheart M&P package. But our military has always embraced foreign arms designs in the past, the FN MAG for just one example.

 

[Shadow2]

Give me the 350 Million and i'll get it done. we arnt talking rocket science.