Considering getting a small revolver for pocket carry

[FP1201]

I have the LCR, a Kimber K6, Colt Detective Special, a SP101, and a "Chief's Special" for carrying the Ruger is super lite and will handle +P
The Kimber is super slick and super expensive.
The Colt is '70's production, six shots, and a fine revolver, but will hammer snag.
The Ruger SP101 is a brick shithouse with a very heavy trigger; uses the same lockwork as the GP100 (which Ironically is half as hard to pull DA)
The Chief's Special is an old school workhorse; lighter than the others (except the LCR) it's not real pleasant to shoot, five shots, and they're not really robust, but how much do they really get shot anyways.
Had a Charter Arms in .38, still have one in .22 and except for caliber and colors, they're still the same as they've been the last fifty years... not bad, but not good either, certainly affordable, and the one time I needed a part for one they sent it no hassle, free of charge.

 

[Podmonkey]

The 340 PD is living inside my head now. Thanks alot @Xae289! Thank thing us soooooo damned expensive!

 

[Podmonkey]

My LGS has a 2 payment lay away program. I'm gonna go in later today to see if they would be amenable to a 3 payment plan on the 340 PD. If so I'll get it.
What do we all like for a good .38 Special defensive load? Federal used to have a great HST load but it's discontinued.

 

[FP1201]

The 340 PD is living inside my head now. Thanks alot @Xae289! Thank thing us soooooo damned expensive!

Prambo has/had one: recoil is very pronounced with .357 loads.

 

[Bustedknees]

I like carrying my Taurus 856 and its one of a very few guns that I don't mind getting wear marks on it.
I never cared for the hidden hammer revolvers, ugly and it takes away from any chance of good target accuracy.

 

[Podmonkey]

Well, due to the seed @Xae289 planted in my mind I have placed $200 down on a new 340 PD. I have 2 months to pay it off.

Prambo has/had one: recoil is very pronounced with .357 loads.

Oh I have no doubt of that. The 340 feels like it is made out of helium. I have no intention of running any 357 magnum through it, other a than a cylinders worth just to satisfy my curiosity.
I will be running .38 Specials out of it exclusively.

@prambo, how bad is it really? Painful or just uncomfortable?

 

[Xae289]

The 340 PD is living inside my head now. Thanks alot @Xae289! Thank thing us soooooo damned expensive!

Hahaha, sorry. It fit your criteria too damn well not to mention it.

As far as loads, any of these highlighted in yellow look pretty good on paper. Excellent expansion in ballistics gel and break the 12" min FBI standard for penetration. The Federal HST Micro or Winchester Ranger Bonded +P would probably be my first choices, but the only one of those I found in the past couple of years was the Hornady 110 gr FTX Critical Defense +P, so that's what I carry in my S&W 642. A solid 13" of penetration and uniform expansion to .48 cal looks good enough for me.



Link to Lucky Gunner Labs' .38 & .357 ammo tests:

.38 Special and .357 Magnum Self-Defense Ammo Ballistics Test - LuckyGunner.com Labs

We conducted ballistics gelatin tests for 38 self-defense revolver loads in 38 Special and 357 Magnum. Here are the full results along with photos and video

www.luckygunner.com

I tried a box of Buffalo Bore 158 gr SWC-HP... I'm sure that would be a great defensive round, but the recoil was so brutal it shook loose the screw to the cylinder release latch and hurt almost as bad as the one cylinder of .357 Mag I shot through a M340PD. I can't shoot it and not develop a flinch.

 

[FP1201]

Well, due to the seed @Xae289 planted in my mind I have placed $200 down on a new 340 PD. I have 2 months to pay it off.


Oh I have no doubt of that. The 340 feels like it is made out of helium. I have no intention of running any 357 magnum through it, other a than a cylinders worth just to satisfy my curiosity.
I will be running .38 Specials out of it exclusively.

@prambo, how bad is it really? Painful or just uncomfortable?

Unbelievably lite no doubt, and one cylinders worth will satisfy your curiosity.

 

[Podmonkey]

Hahaha, sorry. It fit your criteria too damn well not to mention it.

As far as loads, any of these highlighted in yellow look pretty good on paper. Excellent expansion in ballistics gel and break the 12" min FBI standard for penetration. The Federal HST Micro or Winchester Ranger Bonded +P would probably be my first choices, but the only one of those I found in the past couple of years was the Hornady 110 gr FTX Critical Defense +P, so that's what I carry in my S&W 642. A solid 13" of penetration and uniform expansion to .48 cal looks good enough for me.

View attachment 209558

Link to Lucky Gunner Labs' .38 & .357 ammo tests:

.38 Special and .357 Magnum Self-Defense Ammo Ballistics Test - LuckyGunner.com Labs

We conducted ballistics gelatin tests for 38 self-defense revolver loads in 38 Special and 357 Magnum. Here are the full results along with photos and video

www.luckygunner.com

I tried a box of Buffalo Bore 158 gr SWC-HP... I'm sure that would be a great defensive round, but the recoil was so brutal it shook loose the screw to the cylinder release latch and hurt almost as bad as the one cylinder of .357 Mag I shot through a M340PD. I can't shoot it and not develop a flinch.

Hmmnn. My LGS stocks that Hornady load BUT apparently S&W specifies that the lightest load to be used in the PD is not less than 120gr. Something to do with wear on the titanium cylinder.
The HST load would be my top pick but Federal discontinued it. My LGS does stock the Federal Punch stuff. I'll have to look into that but in other calibers it doesn't do as well as more established loads like HSTs, Gold Dots and the like.

 

[Podmonkey]

Unbelievably lite no doubt, and one cylinders worth will satisfy your curiosity.

Who needs wrists anyways?

 

[Xae289]

Hmmnn. My LGS stocks that Hornady load BUT apparently S&W specifies that the lightest load to be used in the PD is not less than 120gr. Something to do with wear on the titanium cylinder.
The HST load would be my top pick but Federal discontinued it. My LGS does stock the Federal Punch stuff. I'll have to look into that but in other calibers it doesn't do as well as more established loads like HSTs, Gold Dots and the like.

If you like the Hornady, you should be in the clear. S&W specifies not to use less that 120 gr bullets with Magnum loads due to cylinder erosion. These are .38 +P which has a lot less pressure than .357 does.

 

[Podmonkey]

If you like the Hornady, you should be in the clear. S&W specifies not to use less that 120 gr bullets with Magnum loads due to cylinder erosion. These are .38 +P which has a lot less pressure than .357 does.

View attachment 209560

Ah, excellent. I have been pursuing .38 Special ballistic gel test videos and of what's available at the LGS the Hornady is the only one that seems worth a damn in a snub nose. Even then it seems marginal. Gold Dots and Golden Sabres seem to do fairly well out of such a short barrel so I will order some.
I reckon that when I finally pick it up (about a month I reckon) I'll get 100 rounds of light target loads, two boxes of tge Hornady, one to shoot, one to retain for defensive use and the smallest box of full house .357 they have. Just so I'm not left wondering.

It occurs to me that the 340 PD is probably the worst possible revolver for a first time revolver owner, though I have shot revolvers several times before including a particularlly brutal go with a Ruger Alaskan in 454 Casull. I sure as shit hope 357 loads out of the 340 aren't any worse than that!

 

[prambo]

I will be running .38 Specials out of it exclusively.

@prambo, how bad is it really? Painful or just uncomfortable?

@Podmonkey

.357 magnum is downright brutal even with the larger Pachmayr grip I use



Have seen a few reports (long ago) of broken hands, probably with original grips and, thus, the backstrap fully exposed.

I've only done 2 cylinders of .357. Even my best friend who is not bothered by recoil very much shot 1 cylinder and said "F that".

I use 38 +P Hornady Critical Defense.

 

[Steal2B]

@Podmonkey

.357 magnum is downright brutal even with the larger Pachmayr grip I use

View attachment 209563

Have seen a few reports (long ago) of broken hands, probably with original grips and, thus, the backstrap fully exposed.

I've only done 2 cylinders of .357. Even my best friend who is not bothered by recoil very much shot 1 cylinder and said "F that".

I use 38 +P Hornady Critical Defense.

Even in a heavier but concealable SP101, my wife was quite unhappy shooting 158g or 180g Buffalo Bore after just shooting some light fast Lehigh copper Xtreme Defense 38s. She wasn't fond of the recoil or the noise / flash report out of the short barrel with those hot 357 loads that are rumored to jump their crimps.

 

[Podmonkey]

So some hours ago I took y'alls advice and ordered a Mika pocket holster (brown with gold thread, classy) and to my surprise the gentleman what makes them calls me up over the phone! We had a nice little conversation asks if I have any questions and assures me I won't be disappointed with my purchase. I have never experienced such a thing before.
Guy seems like a really pleasant fellow too, bit of a character and I like characters.

 

[stokes]

I have shot revolvers several times before including a particularlly brutal go with a Ruger Alaskan in 454 Casull. I sure as shit hope 357 loads out of the 340 aren't any worse than that!

I shot 6 rounds out of a friends 454 like 10 yrs ago, my thumb knuckle still hurts and I never want to shoot that gun again. 357 is no where near as brutal.

 

[Podmonkey]

I shot 6 rounds out of a friends 454 like 10 yrs ago, my thumb knuckle still hurts and I never want to shoot that gun again. 357 is no where near as brutal.

Keep in mind the 340 pd weighs a scant 11.8oz. Opinions of 340pd owners both on these forums and on the YouTubes indicate highly unpleasant levels of recoil when shooting fullhouse .357 loads from this helium weight gun.
But yes, I certainly did not enjoy shooting my buddy's nuclear hot, 300gr 454 Casull loads from the Alaskan. One cylinder and I was done, no matter how much heckling I got.

 

[prambo]

This is, essentially, a CQB weapon, as it were.

Anything past 15+ feet and you're pissing up a rope.

Also have this on it - first time is the trick...muzzle flash will be large.

 

[Podmonkey]

This is, essentially, a CQB weapon, as it were.

Anything past 15+ feet and you're pissing up a rope.

Also have this on it - first time is the trick...muzzle flash will be large.

View attachment 209583

Actually I plan on putting some Crimson Trace grips on. I'm generally not a laser guy but on a tiny J frame with rudimentary sights I think it makes much more sense.
And again this will mostly be my companion on my little 30 minute O'dark thirty runs and for little 10 minute errands. The Shield will still be my primary carry............. but I could probably carry both quite easily. Maybe I could explore ankle holsters, would be a good gun for that.

 

[Xae289]

Ah, excellent. I have been pursuing .38 Special ballistic gel test videos and of what's available at the LGS the Hornady is the only one that seems worth a damn in a snub nose. Even then it seems marginal. Gold Dots and Golden Sabres seem to do fairly well out of such a short barrel so I will order some.
I reckon that when I finally pick it up (about a month I reckon) I'll get 100 rounds of light target loads, two boxes of tge Hornady, one to shoot, one to retain for defensive use and the smallest box of full house .357 they have. Just so I'm not left wondering.

It occurs to me that the 340 PD is probably the worst possible revolver for a first time revolver owner, though I have shot revolvers several times before including a particularlly brutal go with a Ruger Alaskan in 454 Casull. I sure as shit hope 357 loads out of the 340 aren't any worse than that!

To tell you the truth, I do think the ultralight .357 Mag snubbies are worse than the big bore snubbies. Never shot the .454 Alaskan, but I did shoot a cylinder of the snubbie S&W 460 XVR. I don't remember if it was the S&W 340PD or 360PD, but I shot a cylinder full of .357 Mag from one of those. The .460 torqued the hell out of my wrists and didn't feel great on the palms, but there was more than enough grip to hold onto, no bare metal to grip, and it's a heavy gun. The ultralight .357 Mag has very little grip area and weighs nothing. I will always describe shooting 5 of those like catching a putter swung at your hand. That said, in a life-or-death situation at bad-breath distance, you probably wouldn't even notice.
Edit: and the 340PD really won't be bad at all with .38 Spl. It's a normal gun with Specials. It's only Magnums that are that painful.

As far as accuracy goes, your biggest limit is the crappy rear trench sight. I painted the rear notch with some of my wife's nail polish.



I will shoot at least a cylinder at 25 yards every time I go to the range. Yea, I don't hold 3-4" groups, but I can certainly keep all 5 shots on a human silhouette target at 25 yards. Within 10 yards I'm not much worse with it than with any other gun. At 15 yards+ is where accuracy goes downhill fast, and it's all me. The revolver itself has perfectly fine mechanical acaccuracy. Now it IS an incredibly difficult type of gun to get decent with. If you want to get good with it, my advice, buy as much light target .38 Spl ammo as you can afford from your ammo budget and shoot only that gun with light loads for months. Shoot at a Post-it note target or playing card at 3 yards until you routinely put all 5 on it. Then move it back to 5 yards til you can't miss, then back some more. Dry fire it until your finger is sore. Getting good at a DA revolver trigger will make your trigger control with everything else effortless. Or don't worry about it and accept that its range is only a few feet more than a knife's.

Glad you went with a Mika holster. I have one of his pocket holsters and an IWB. He's a class act and makes a great product.

 

[Podmonkey]

To tell you the truth, I do think the ultralight .357 Mag snubbies are worse than the big bore snubbies. Never shot the .454 Alaskan, but I did shoot a cylinder of the snubbie S&W 460 XVR. I don't remember if it was the S&W 340PD or 360PD, but I shot a cylinder full of .357 Mag from one of those. The .460 torqued the hell out of my wrists and didn't feel great on the palms, but there was more than enough grip to hold onto, no bare metal to grip, and it's a heavy gun. The ultralight .357 Mag has very little grip area and weighs nothing. I will always describe shooting 5 of those like catching a putter swung at your hand. That said, in a life-or-death situation at bad-breath distance, you probably wouldn't even notice.
Edit: and the 340PD really won't be bad at all with .38 Spl. It's a normal gun with Specials. It's only Magnums that are that painful.

As far as accuracy goes, your biggest limit is the crappy rear trench sight. I painted the rear notch with some of my wife's nail polish.

View attachment 209584

I will shoot at least a cylinder at 25 yards every time I go to the range. Yea, I don't hold 3-4" groups, but I can certainly keep all 5 shots on a human silhouette target at 25 yards. Within 10 yards I'm not much worse with it than with any other gun. At 15 yards+ is where accuracy goes downhill fast, and it's all me. The revolver itself has perfectly fine mechanical acaccuracy. Now it IS an incredibly difficult type of gun to get decent with. If you want to get good with it, my advice, buy as much light target .38 Spl ammo as you can afford from your ammo budget and shoot only that gun with light loads for months. Shoot at a Post-it note target or playing card at 3 yards until you routinely put all 5 on it. Then move it back to 5 yards til you can't miss, then back some more. Dry fire it until your finger is sore. Getting good at a DA revolver trigger will make your trigger control with everything else effortless. Or don't worry about it and accept that its range is only a few feet more than a knife's.

Glad you went with a Mika holster. I have one of his pocket holsters and an IWB. He's a class act and makes a great product.

Yeah, I'm just looking to be able to make 5 .38 Special torso hits at bad breath distance. I do hope that it will be at least a little fun to shoot with light target loads. I like to shoot after all, would be nice to be able plink with 100 or so wadcutters.
Next gun will be a 686 Plus I think, or I'd like a Model 19 Carry Comp for a nice woods carry gun. Lotta black bears around here.

 

[stokes]

I've had my S&W mod 60 for about 35 yrs. Stock grips and +P loads is fine, its got some snap but not too bad. A 357 mag would be pretty hard kicking but I dont think it would compare to the Casull. The worst I ever shot was a 35 rem out of a TC Contender, the twist almost almost dislocated my elbow and wrist. Friend dared me to shoot it one handed.

 

[S&W Fan]

I’m kind of partial to the 642 Airweight myself but that’s me. The 340PD is an excellent little gun as well but as you’ve already discovered is on the expensive side. Snubbies really only serve one purpose so having Fun shooting it is probably a moot point. After all , they’re called belly guns for a reason. Personally I would focus on accuracy at bad breath distances and concentrate on trigger control. Dry firing every chance you get will be paramount. I’ve seen guys miss playing cards routinely at 10 ft. away and complain that the gun is a POS when in actuality their trigger control Sucked.

When you decide to kick it up a notch to the 686+ , then you’ll be having some S&W .357 magnum FUN ! Graduate to the S&W 29 or 629 .44 magnum and you’ll be creaming yourself !

 

[Podmonkey]

I’m kind of partial to the 642 Airweight myself but that’s me. The 340PD is an excellent little gun as well but as you’ve already discovered is on the expensive side. Snubbies really only serve one purpose so having Fun shooting it is probably a moot point. After all , they’re called belly guns for a reason. Personally I would focus on accuracy at bad breath distances and concentrate on trigger control. Dry firing every chance you get will be paramount. I’ve seen guys miss playing cards routinely at 10 ft. away and complain that the gun is a POS when in actuality their trigger control Sucked.

When you decide to kick it up a notch to the 686+ , then you’ll be having some S&W .357 magnum FUN ! Graduate to the S&W 29 or 629 .44 magnum and you’ll be creaming yourself !

Well again, it's gonna be for use in aa few specific instances, instances where the 340's low weight will be helpful, namely riding in the pocket of running pants with no belt. And I'll be using .38 Specials exclusively. I'm not a great shot but I do take pride that I am at least a competent shooter and I am determined to tame the 340 PD. I do have strong hands and an exceptionally strong grip strength (had my grip strength tested as part of inital physical for a job. I maxed out the meter)
When I first get any new gadget I obsessively futz with it and for guns this means dry firing. I'll plop myself in front of the TV while doing so for hours. I am willing to put in the time to make the little bastard sing, I see it as a challenge.

 

[stokes]

and concentrate on trigger control.

This is where revolvers really differ from semi's. Its a longer pull and much heavier than a semi's. A lot of dry firing is good practice to get the feel for where the hammer drops.

 

[Podmonkey]

This is where revolvers really differ from semi's. Its a longer pull and much heavier than a semi's. A lot of dry firing is good practice to get the feel for where the hammer drops.

When I dry fired the various J frames in the shop, including the 340, I didn't find the pulls to be all that heavy. Long yes, but smooth and easy to work through with a final bit of stacking before the break. I am sure with a little practice I can manage it. I do find that a smooth and even trigger pull makes all the difference when it comes to a heavy weight. I've fired some surplus semi auto pistols with pulls so heavy and uneven you'd think the safety was on at first, the pull on a Makarov for instance is god-awful!

 

[Xae289]

When I dry fired the various J frames in the shop, including the 340, I didn't find the pulls to be all that heavy. Long yes, but smooth and easy to work through with a final bit of stacking before the break. I am sure with a little practice I can manage it. I do find that a smooth and even trigger pull makes all the difference when it comes to a heavy weight. I've fired some surplus semi auto pistols with pulls so heavy and uneven you'd think the safety was on at first, the pull on a Makarov for instance is god-awful!

J-frame trigger pulls are a little stiff, but not bad at all for a double-action. The bigger revolvers with heavier cylinders and a longer trigger reach feel heavier to me.

Glad you caught the wheelgun bug. They're a ton of fun, especially when you go very small or go big.

 

[Podmonkey]

J-frame trigger pulls are a little stiff, but not bad at all for a double-action. The bigger revolvers with heavier cylinders and a longer trigger reach feel heavier to me.

Glad you caught the wheelgun bug. They're a ton of fun, especially when you go very small or go big.

I've never been much of a trigger snob. For example I am so pleased with the factory trigger on my Gen 5 Glock 19 I will never put an aftermarket one on. What I felt in the shop whether on the 638 or 642 or the 340 seemed absolutely fine to me. I specifically did my little test where I see how much if any disruption in my sight picture I get throughout the pull, if I can keep the front sight post centered in the notch through the break I consider the trigger to be good. With the J frame I can do this because the pressure ramps up smoothly, more of a rolling break which I prefer with a little stacking before the hammer goes which is fine. I did notice some grit but that’s okay, nothing a few hundred dru fires won't smooth out. I'll get some snap caps, put on a good movie and click click click click click the whole time.
I'm kind of autistic when it comes to fiddling with mechanical devices. You should see me with a pocket knife what has a good action.

 

[stokes]

I've never been much of a trigger snob. For example I am so pleased with the factory trigger on my Gen 5 Glock 19

My Glock 19 had the NY trigger for 20+ yrs. I got so used to it that when I bought my 43X I had to put a NY trigger in it.

 

[Podmonkey]

I'm gonna get a box of the Gold Dot 135gr short barrel specific magnums. They are a light magnum load that is pretty much a 38 +p+.
I'll see if it is tolerable, if so I will make that tge primary carry load. If not I will go with the 135gr .38 +p Gold Dots.
SG ammo is selling the .38 Special Gold Dots for a reasonable $.73 a round.