Discussion in 'Long Guns - Rifles & Shotguns' started by Podmonkey, Mar 8, 2019.
Honestly these days it just comes down to preference.
With even the most minimal maintenance both will hold up in a combat environment.
And in the environment that most people hang out in you arent going go have any issues unless it's a cheap blaster (ak included)
AKs used to enjoy a significant price advantage over ARs but now........ it really does come down to preference. I like and enjoy shooting both but the AR15 is objectively lighter and faster to run and also much easier to service when parts do break. Regardless the rugged simplicity of AKs is also appealing.
When I ran the Galil at the last carbine class (and it is an AK) I was still a legend to do the reloads efficiently. I am a huge fan of the left side cocking handle of the Ace.
I love the AK and other kalashnikovs pattern guns (I really miss my VZ58) they look awesome even today, they function and feel great.
But I do believe Stoner got it write with his design, the ergonomics (not counting the charging handle which isnt really and issue do to bolt hold open) is the gold standard, size cant be beat, and the modularity is something everyone is still trying to compete with.
But AKs man
There is nothing wrong with the AR charging handle, especially with the upgraded ambi ones like the Raptor or Geisellle ones. It's out if the way, doesn't snag and you only use it every now and then anyway. Yes locking the bolt open manually is awkward but you never will be doing that under stress, it's an administrative action. AKs you can't lock the bolt back in any fashion at all which I consider a major flaw in a modern combat arm.
I actually somewhat prefer an AR over a basic AK but, like you with the AK platform in general,
there is just something about the Ace that grabs me. There are just enough improvements to tip the balance. Could also be the novelty of having a hard hitting 308 shoot so softly. It really is something else.
That's why I said usually isnt an issue, once the gun is charged the charging handle is pretty much done and over with, unless downgrading the weapon which again administrative so non issue or malfunction, but as talked about with a properly built and maintained AR is negligible (unless you are using cheap ammo or bad mags)
And like you I believe that the ACE fixed most of the major issues that hinder the AK. With the ambi safety and left side charging handle (non reciprocating would be nice, but due to the location isnt an issue like on say the original CZ Bren)
The worst part about the ar15 is the charger. It's design does stop shit from getting in the rifle. Other then inconvenient to use my gripe with it is if the charger ever breaks your fucked. Although ive never broken one or really put it to the test.
The way I see it is the AK is a platform that doesn't need as much maintenance. If you dump dirt into any rifles trigger group or chamber it's gonna have problems. The AK will run a bit longer dry and fouled up. But how fast could you open an AR and change the bolt and carrier if needed.
Iv8888 did a bunch of full auto tortures to the AR and AK both failed the AR in general seemed to do better.
I'd love to own an AK and get an AR again if I can own one without government regulations. The vz58 and 805 bren would be on my shortlist as well if I ever live in a free state again.
That is true I guess. I haven't ever heard of a charging handle breaking other than the latch, have you? Not to say it can't or hasn't happened.
When you aren't using it its tucked up safely within the receiver. If you upgrade the handle you will find its function much improved. I have both a Raptor and Geisellle handle and I use both one handed both under and overhand fashion much like a regular side charging handle. If running it quickly a bladed palm also works well.
The AR in general has the best layout of any modern rifle for a rapid magazine change.............. well other than a Garand. Nothing reloads faster than the good 'ol Garand.
Funny that charging handles breaking was brought up.
Not sure the back story on this, I'm guessing it wasn't in the gun buttttt just saw this on the gram this morning
I've never seen one broke but Ive never been in a stressful situation yanking on the thing like my life depended on it. The milspec charger just seems like such a flimsy part in general. I don't have any expiriance with aftermarket handles I don't know if they are studier or not. I'm a big fan of the ar15 design and I think it's the apex of firearm technology as it stands today.
Honestly even yanking on the thing seems like it wouldn't do much, most of the pressure is directed in a linear direction causing no real stress on the handle, it's only really janky for side to side which thanks to the design is kind of hard to pull of when just yanking on it.
The above picture not clue how he broke that one I wouldn't be surprised if it was them fucking around. Or showing a demonstration in the wrong way to do something, or broke it to break it lol
Maybe not the apex but it certainly is the universal rifle of the times. Much like the Winchester 1873 was the definitive rifle of its era. And the Old American long rifles whether called Kentucky or Pennsylvania rifles were the iconic arms of colonial times.
In any case aftermarket handles such as the Raptor or Geiselle are far superior in ergonomics and strength. As far as the latch mechanism goes. The body of it isn't any different.
Despite their high cost I think these aftermarket handles improve the handling of the AR15 enough to warrant their purchase. I like the ones I named because they don't have the latching dongus, rather the grasping area itself articulates which is comfortable and easy to grasp quickly.
It's bent upwards where it snapped. Maybe it was mortered when it broke?
Raptor charging handles are the bees knees
I like the Geiselle one a bit better. It seems a little sturdier.
I havent had a chance to play with the Geiselle. But everything he makes or even his wife company makes is top notch.
I see some company just agreed to settle.out of court over a complete copy of the Raptor
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