Court: Police can shoot dog if it moves or barks when cop enters home

[Rustycoins]

Any shooting, even a dog shooting, has its consequences even if it's a good shoot. Remember the shooting in IL on tape where the car chase. The officer who believed it was a good shoot is fretting about "30 days inside". It's 30 days of losing overtime which a lot of live on ( and for what he believes to be a good shoot).

Some guys have to wait a year or more before a determination is made. A year of no overtime or even just a tour change (and the loss of night diff) can cost the officer for some departments, over 50,000 dollars even in a good shoot.

That's in a good shoot.

I know of guys who's retirement plans were delayed because of a shoot where the investigation wasn't "complete". Good shoots too. Clear cut. Couldn't retire if he wanted to "leave in good standing" and have a gun permit.

There is a disciplinary system you have no idea what it's like. The closest historical equivalent would be the star chamber. It's often internal politics that can determine punishment officially and unofficially.
Here is an illustration. Fictional account but often true. Highway therapy is real and can add an hour or more to s commute. Or change in hours etc. A transfer to a day tour can cost an officer roughly 10% night differential. A 10% pay cut based on a ranking officer's whim of what happened at a scene( union protection or not) even if it is still being investigated.

Look TB I can tell you're passionate about this, but no need to patronize with I "have no idea what it's like." My brother is a cop and I'm being honest when I say a lot of these young egomaniacs get away with murder (metaphorically of course). They would throw the gear on and use it against fluffy the 15 lb dog to show how badass they are.

It sounds like we live in different areas, much more rural here I'm guessing and a lot of the cops come from cities to here. There's incompetence here coming from the top down, there are youtube videos of people getting death threats from that jacked up cop that doesn't know how to turn the switch off after an incident. No starting cop bashing here, the point is the superiors not the cop, but that guy didn't see an ounce of disciplinary for making a death threat while on the job. This is where I get some of my views of disciplinary from, because I've seen the absolute incompetence of the Chief and local government with many of these events. How well do you think my dog is going to make out in this place? Aside from that what makes you think I care about a cop getting a slap on the wrist for killing my dog? Nothing takes him back, that's why i'm passionate about the issue from my side. I want it prevented, not punished.

There are huge differences with every department, but one glaring similarity I see too often is lack of disciplinary. I think a lot of cops are good cops, but make shitty managers. No idea how to handle employees and they're promoted from within because they know the department. Not every personality is fit for managing, and the worst of them is ignoring problems before they escalate to huge problems. This is my theory on where a lot of problems and public mistrust in police actually stems from. I am fully willing to admit that I might not see not see the disciplinary because it's not published or it's done in private. That is where I am very open to learning, so please if you do have real life examples I would be more than happy to see your side.

 

[Pale Rider]

My chief, who was a dog lover, by the way, always told us that considering that we were armed, if we got injured by a dog, it was our own fault.

 

[GOPerfect]

I will not get bit by a dog. I will shot the dog if absolutely needed. I would much rather give it a few wacks with my baton. Funny thing is, a dog, many times, will have a better chance of getting shot than a person. If a person attacks a cop, probably a good beating will come; if a dog attacks, shot to death. I do see an issue with this.

I get it, animals are very unpredictable, but people are smarter, we reason much better than an animal. Use the sense that you were given before taking a dogs life.

Just a quick, little story...

A few years back, I was walking my dog, my son was with me riding his bike. A dog a few houses up breached the gate that was holding him in, he charged and attacked my dog, I was armed. Instead of shooting the dog, I kicked it twice in the head and punched him in his throat. Bet, I would have been well within my rights to dispatch that dog. Sometimes, a little thought goes a long way!

 

[99cummins]

Are the rules for a civilian shooting a dog in self defense any different than an Leo? Other than Leo have a better chance of getting into a situation where it is necessary? In my soon to be previous job I had dogs come after me. A good kick to the head buys you some time. Im also used to dealing with aggressive cows and pigs so maybe I'm more used to it. You haven't seen angry until you've had an angry momma cow after you. And even if I wanted to shoot them a side arm isn't going to be effective. The other issue with this whole thing is the push to make the punishment of killing a police k9 similar to killing a human Leo while the court releases a ruling that appears to make it easier for Leo to get away with shooting dogs. Not being anti Leo. Just trying to look at the big picture. And the problem as usual is some ass hat in an office or court room decides something and law enforcement has to deal with and implement it.

 

[Truebeliever]

Are the rules for a civilian shooting a dog in self defense any different than an Leo? Other than Leo have a better chance of getting into a situation where it is necessary? In my soon to be previous job I had dogs come after me. A good kick to the head buys you some time. Im also used to dealing with aggressive cows and pigs so maybe I'm more used to it. You haven't seen angry until you've had an angry momma cow after you. And even if I wanted to shoot them a side arm isn't going to be effective. The other issue with this whole thing is the push to make the punishment of killing a police k9 similar to killing a human Leo while the court releases a ruling that appears to make it easier for Leo to get away with shooting dogs. Not being anti Leo. Just trying to look at the big picture. And the problem as usual is some ass hat in an office or court room decides something and law enforcement has to deal with and implement it.

The rules for a civilian aren't much different if you are legally allowed to be there. The threat level is physical injury in NYS as opposed to Serious physical injury for a human.

The main difference is are you allowed to be where you were when you shot them and what is the risk to others. And more importantly, civil liability.

 

[Doc8404]

My chief, who was a dog lover, by the way, always told us that considering that we were armed, if we got injured by a dog, it was our own fault.

Yep, blank check to shoot a dog.
How about a smart Chief, "Use non-lethal force and your brain. Sidearm is last resort."
But alas, you proved many peoples' point.
Go straight for the gun.

 

[Truebeliever]

Look TB I can tell you're passionate about this, but no need to patronize with I "have no idea what it's like." My brother is a cop and I'm being honest when I say a lot of these young egomaniacs get away with murder (metaphorically of course). They would throw the gear on and use it against fluffy the 15 lb dog to show how badass they are.

It sounds like we live in different areas, much more rural here I'm guessing and a lot of the cops come from cities to here. There's incompetence here coming from the top down, there are youtube videos of people getting death threats from that jacked up cop that doesn't know how to turn the switch off after an incident. No starting cop bashing here, the point is the superiors not the cop, but that guy didn't see an ounce of disciplinary for making a death threat while on the job. This is where I get some of my views of disciplinary from, because I've seen the absolute incompetence of the Chief and local government with many of these events. How well do you think my dog is going to make out in this place? Aside from that what makes you think I care about a cop getting a slap on the wrist for killing my dog? Nothing takes him back, that's why i'm passionate about the issue from my side. I want it prevented, not punished.

There are huge differences with every department, but one glaring similarity I see too often is lack of disciplinary. I think a lot of cops are good cops, but make shitty managers. No idea how to handle employees and they're promoted from within because they know the department. Not every personality is fit for managing, and the worst of them is ignoring problems before they escalate to huge problems. This is my theory on where a lot of problems and public mistrust in police actually stems from. I am fully willing to admit that I might not see not see the disciplinary because it's not published or it's done in private. That is where I am very open to learning, so please if you do have real life examples I would be more than happy to see your side.

I was trying to be patronizing. Even my relatives don't truly understand our disciplinary reprocussions unless and until happens to that relative and mostly not even then. Heck, a lot of cops don't know it until it happens to them. We have cops who are "jailhouse lawyers " to it, and I happen to be one of them at work and my previous positions. In other words , cops who are jammed up have sought me out to ask advice. Some I can hear , others I can't hear because of legal reasons. I do get the "after-action reports" of what happened from them and others. Even now, I hear of new ways for a cop to get punished all the time.

As far as turning off a switch right after a "critical incident ", it's almost impossible. It is a human response( fight or flight to the extreme). The only two things that seem to work once the cork is off the bottle is have another cop intercede or constant exposure to such incidents.

It's something that physiological.
The conditioning of training can only take it so far. And there would be a lot more police killings if it weren't. The stats show police killings are at historic lows despite what BLM and the media would have us believe.

 

[Pale Rider]

Yep, blank check to shoot a dog.
How about a smart Chief, "Use non-lethal force and your brain. Sidearm is last resort."
But alas, you proved many peoples' point.
Go straight for the gun.

I didn't prove anyone's point. There was nothing in what I said, or my chief said that indicated that less lethal measures should not be used if applicable. The sidearm isn't the last resort. It is the next to the last resort. The last resort is to throw yourself at the mercy of the dog and hope he takes pity on you and doesn't mess you up to badly.

 

[Doc8404]

I didn't prove anyone's point. There was nothing in what I said, or my chief said that indicated that less lethal measures should not be used if applicable. The sidearm isn't the last resort. It is the next to the last resort. The last resort is to throw yourself at the mercy of the dog and hope he takes pity on you and doesn't mess you up to badly.

Had to laugh at the last sentence. Thx.

 

[Truebeliever]

They have say for years "use your pepper spray" for dogs. It doesn't work.

Less than lethal for animals only works if you have time to draw it, aim, ( in the case of a TASER)have both darts lodge which unlikely by the way the darts deploy unless you are inches away. Ever since the Fruitville station incident, many departments make the draw of a taser a different motion than a gun draw so a gun won't be confused with a taser as in the fruitville station incident. It is not a natural instinctive draw and takes time and presence of mind to draw. Many cops have it in their hand before proceeding to incident because it can take that long to draw. And frankly , even if the darts go in, the taser doesn't always work on humans or dogs. Here is an example:

Officer beaten on cam, doesn't shoot - CNN Video

Rodney king-taser didn't work either

 

[Marine Cpl]

A cops leg is always deployed and ready to fire. If that fails then there's the ASP and the firearm.

Unless you weigh 85 lbs there is no way a 5 to 20 pound dog can take you down.

I've dealt with stray dogs as a kid. Enough with this BS.

I can understand a 75lb to 150 lb dog.

 

[Truebeliever]

I'm not defending a 20 lb dog if the officer realized it's just a 20 lb dog.

It is broad generalization to say there is a "green light" to shoot dogs and there is no repercussions ( official or unofficial) made in most dog shoots even if the officer is 100% right.

It is far from the truth to say otherwise. I'm not talking just NY downstate. Most departments nationwide have repercussions for most "uncontrolled" or UN sanctioned discharges of firearms. Justified or not. I am not even talking criminal or civil liabilities involved.

 

[since2004]

Dogs are distractions. 20lbs or 120lbs when you have to divert your attention from a volatile situation to tend to a dog it opens a window of opportunity.
There are cases when dogs are shot without cause and that should be disciplined but when a dog is used as a tool to deter the police the dog owner should be responsible for the repercussions.
Intentionally harming animals without some serious justification is wrong. The situations do exists, I hope to never be put in one.

 

[Rustycoins]

I was trying to be patronizing. Even my relatives don't truly understand our disciplinary reprocussions unless and until happens to that relative and mostly not even then. Heck, a lot of cops don't know it until it happens to them. We have cops who are "jailhouse lawyers " to it, and I happen to be one of them at work and my previous positions. In other words , cops who are jammed up have sought me out to ask advice. Some I can hear , others I can't hear because of legal reasons. I do get the "after-action reports" of what happened from them and others. Even now, I hear of new ways for a cop to get punished all the time.

As far as turning off a switch right after a "critical incident ", it's almost impossible. It is a human response( fight or flight to the extreme). The only two things that seem to work once the cork is off the bottle is have another cop intercede or constant exposure to such incidents.

It's something that physiological.
The conditioning of training can only take it so far. And there would be a lot more police killings if it weren't. The stats show police killings are at historic lows despite what BLM and the media would have us believe.

I'm assuming you meant you were not trying to be patronizing?

Look man you're focusing on the wrong aspects of my comments. I wasn't starting an on/off switch argument, I was simply trying to state that if you EVER do anything wrong, you should expect at the very least a baby slap on the wrist. It prevents you from acting in a more bold way against the law in the future. Your entire profession is based on swift, certain and severe punishment for a crime. Without those 3 items you can never dissuade others from acting the same way.

I'm not blaming anyone here or starting an argument. I'm saying it comes down to how each department is managed individually, and I am accusing many departments of absolute shit management. Again, cops might be excellent cops, but not necessarily cut out to be promoted to managers. As a civilian I do not ever see these punishments short of what my brother who is a local cop sees or doesn't see, so you have to agree to some extent there is justification for me to question that they actually exist. Especially when I'm repeatedly told nothing is done over things I would expect to be fired and/or charged with a crime for.

I'm literally saying I would be persuaded to think lighter of this if you helped educate me to the opposite side of my position. I like examples and facts and/or penal code/case law. When my dog gets shot because he runs up to a cop and when he collapses there a squeaky toy drops out of his dead mouth because he wanted to play, I want to know that there are harsh consequences to that. I have yet seen this vs hundreds if not thousands of cases of dogs shot for greeting an officer in a completely non-threatening way, tail wagging and even <10 lb dogs. For example, "In Buffalo, local news channel WGRZ conducted an in-depth investigation of the city’s practices, concluding that police shot 92 dogs in a three-year period, with a single officer responsible for 26 shootings." When I grew up people used to attribute mercilessly slaughtering animals to sociopathic behavior and maybe they'd step it up to bigger game like humans some day. What disciplinary action would someone who has shot 26 dogs see?

 

[Truebeliever]

I'm assuming you meant you were not trying to be patronizing?

Look man you're focusing on the wrong aspects of my comments. I wasn't starting an on/off switch argument, I was simply trying to state that if you EVER do anything wrong, you should expect at the very least a baby slap on the wrist. It prevents you from acting in a more bold way against the law in the future. Your entire profession is based on swift, certain and severe punishment for a crime. Without those 3 items you can never dissuade others from acting the same way.

I'm not blaming anyone here or starting an argument. I'm saying it comes down to how each department is managed individually, and I am accusing many departments of absolute shit management. Again, cops might be excellent cops, but not necessarily cut out to be promoted to managers. As a civilian I do not ever see these punishments short of what my brother who is a local cop sees or doesn't see, so you have to agree to some extent there is justification for me to question that they actually exist. Especially when I'm repeatedly told nothing is done over things I would expect to be fired and/or charged with a crime for.

I'm literally saying I would be persuaded to think lighter of this if you helped educate me to the opposite side of my position. I like examples and facts and/or penal code/case law. When my dog gets shot because he runs up to a cop and when he collapses there a squeaky toy drops out of his dead mouth because he wanted to play, I want to know that there are harsh consequences to that. I have yet seen this vs hundreds if not thousands of cases of dogs shot for greeting an officer in a completely non-threatening way, tail wagging and even <10 lb dogs. For example, "In Buffalo, local news channel WGRZ conducted an in-depth investigation of the city’s practices, concluding that police shot 92 dogs in a three-year period, with a single officer responsible for 26 shootings." When I grew up people used to attribute mercilessly slaughtering animals to sociopathic behavior and maybe they'd step it up to bigger game like humans some day. What disciplinary action would someone who has shot 26 dogs see?

You are right that I meant to not patronizing.
92 dogs

The report might be misleading. I don't know if buffalo allows the officer to put down a dog or deer for euthanasia at the scene. A guy I know does about 50 deer a year at car accidents. Other cops call him to the scene to do it for them.

Downstate departments often have animal control do it with a lethal injection or an assigned unit instead of gunfire?

Or the officer might be the point man on their warrant team.

The article does mention other cities as a comparison but are the use of Dogs more prevalent in Buffalo.

I have heard an alternative to all of this by a guy who had to plant the bugs in a room with the mob suspect home/business who had Dogs. They couldn't do anything to the dogs without telling the guy, someone broke in . So they hired a dog psychologist to take care of the dog when they went in. I don't think that is in the budget to go on every call-lol

 

[Rustycoins]

You are right that I meant to not patronizing.
92 dogs

The report might be misleading. I don't know if buffalo allows the officer to put down a dog or deer for euthanasia at the scene. A guy I know does about 50 deer a year at car accidents. Other cops call him to the scene to do it for them.

Downstate departments often have animal control do it with a lethal injection or an assigned unit instead of gunfire?

Or the officer might be the point man on their warrant team.

The article does mention other cities as a comparison but are the use of Dogs more prevalent in Buffalo.

I have heard an alternative to all of this by a guy who had to plant the bugs in a room with the mob suspect home/business who had Dogs. They couldn't do anything to the dogs without telling the guy, someone broke in . So they hired a dog psychologist to take care of the dog when they went in. I don't think that is in the budget to go on every call-lol

Fair enough haha. I'm not picking apart shit case by case to be a dick, you get my point I can tell. You're just as stubborn as I am and I admire it. Just be nice to fluffy when you go in the door and it's not necessary lol, even my dog could use a good kick to the head if he's out of line . But in all seriousness do you have an actual case that the cop got punished? The only one I can find is discipline after some troubled musicians dog getting shot while he was trespassing... doesn't really fit my concerns. It's a tough one man, I'm not finding much.

 

[Day444]

All for LEO's taking out the trash, be it two or four legged. **Don't blame a dog breed, for having been conditioned to attack.** Hommie has an attack dog and sends it my way, it's probably not for a scratch behind the ear! I have dogs, come into my backyard with out notice and one of my Aussie's WILL BITE you in the ass! (They guard the yard and their "herd" -my other dogs- it's just what they do instinctively. The Corgi's will just want a petting and leave someone alone.

 

[Truebeliever]

Fair enough haha. I'm not picking apart shit case by case to be a dick, you get my point I can tell. You're just as stubborn as I am and I admire it. Just be nice to fluffy when you go in the door and it's not necessary lol, even my dog could use a good kick to the head if he's out of line . But in all seriousness do you have an actual case that the cop got punished? The only one I can find is discipline after some troubled musicians dog getting shot while he was trespassing... doesn't really fit my concerns. It's a tough one man, I'm not finding much.

Oh, sure, I know a few cases but I can't cite them. Most internal disciplinary actions aren't published and is actually against state law to release the info from someone's personnel file ( federal judges do have the info released all the time however). Many are on the rubber gun squad for a time during the investigation, many are hit with department charges from anywhere to unnecessary discharge of a firearm, to not using pepper spray first( again it doesn't work but they don't always care), to suspension, and if on probation , just fired.

Again, it's a star chamber.
If you are a chief's son, you will probably be okay. If not,....

 

[holdover]

""The dog has to go. Human life comes first""

Except when that human is a criminal, and the dog works for the cops, then the dogs life comes first. (SHAKES HEAD )"" equal under the law."" You missed your calling TB you should have been a defense lawyer. You can see the innocence in anyone.

 

[Truebeliever]

""The dog has to go. Human life comes first""

Except when that human is a criminal, and the dog works for the cops, then the dogs life comes first. (SHAKES HEAD )"" equal under the law."" You missed your calling TB you should have been a defense lawyer. You can see the innocence in anyone.

Actually, no. If it's a choice between the police dog which is out of control or a choice has to be made between the two, the dog goes. The difference is when a police dog is used in an official matter and using authorized controlled force ( under the handler's direction) then it's different.

"A person is guilty of killing a police work dog or police work horse when such person intentionally kills a police work dog or police work horse while such dog or horse is in the performance of its duties and under the supervision of a police officer.  For purposes of this section, “police work dog” or “police work horse,” as the case may be, shall mean any dog or horse owned or harbored by any state or municipal police department or any state or federal law enforcement agency, which has been trained to aid law enforcement officers and is actually being used for police work purposes.

Killing a police work dog or police work horse is a class E felony."


If the police dog was on its own at home, and bit someone, it would legally be treated as any other dog


- See more at: New York Penal Law - PEN § 195.06-a | FindLaw.