Dearborn ,MI Gun Advocates Arrested ?

[Shadow2]

so you only support open, constitutional carry when it follows the expectations of government and law enforcement?

Hey the officers concern where very much justified. They used the threat of physical injury to coerce the surrender of a right. Im going to assume no actual "gun crime" was committed. You can't control how people will react so the reaction itself is not the defining factor of what constitutes a crime. The intent does.

Would i have done this No, i have better shit to do with my time, but these guys want to and have a right to excersize there rights, regardless how stupid any of use feel it may have been, it doesn't automatically make it criminal because the police didn't like it. Where they supose to call and make a full carry appointment?

It's very extreme, but these clowns prove the point, You clearly do not have a right to bear arms when government or law enforcement are not comfortable with it. When you must seek approval, its not even close to being a right.

What person wears a ski mask, body armour while carrying a gun and walks into a police station .. HMMM swat comes to mind, going back to the notion only police are allowed to bear arms and anyone else's who does so is a threat. NO! THATS NOT HOW RIGHTS WORK!




Im a HUGE supporter of the 2a, open carry, constitutional carry, etc.. I also have no problem calling out a douche bag cop, or praising a good one.

In this situation, honestly and objectively, these guys are wrong.

What kind of a person wears a ski mask, body armor , while carrying a gun and walks into a police station? Any "reasonable" person could/would be in fear for their lives. Now, im not a cop or a lawyer, but i could see these guys being arrested for walking into a police station like this. However, once their intent was known i could see letting them go.

So i do agree that intent plays a part, but initially i think officers would be justified to disarm them until their intent was known.[/QUOTE]

 

[Shadow2]

watch/ listen to the video, you will be Arrested for "disobeying a lawful order" ... WHY because I assume they know the state laws and what they did was lawful. So let's pull from the bag of go too charges.

 

[Celt]

so you only support open, constitutional carry when it follows the expectations of government and law enforcement?

Hey the officers concern where very much justified. They used the threat of physical injury to coerce the surrender of a right. Im going to assume no actual "gun crime" was committed. You can't control how people will react so the reaction itself is not the defining factor of what constitutes a crime. The intent does.

Would i have done this No, i have better shit to do with my time, but these guys want to and have a right to excersize there rights, regardless how stupid any of use feel it may have been, it doesn't automatically make it criminal because the police didn't like it. Where they supose to call and make a full carry appointment?

It's very extreme, but these clowns prove the point, You clearly do not have a right to bear arms when government or law enforcement are not comfortable with it. When you must seek approval, its not even close to being a right.

NOT AT ALL! I 100% support the 2a in every way and anyone on here will attest to that. I support most open carry demonstrations even if i dont agree with them, but not this one.

Answer this honestly.

What would you do if two men wearing ski masks, body armor, and carrying rifles came up to your door?

The reality is that this is not NORMAL behavior, and anyone would be in their right mind to assume that they are up to no good.

So , because they walked into a police station this way the police officers responded as they should have. Now should they technically be charged with a crime, no. Is it reasonable for the police officers to have taken them into custody until they can assess the situation, in my opinion, yes. I know that if people approached my door dressed the way they were , carrying rifles, they would be met with a rifle in the face, and i would demand they drop their weapons. If they moved too quickly they would likely end up dead, and it wouldnt matter if they just wanted me to sign an open carry petition or not. Plain and simple, it's not normal to be wearing ski masks body armor and guns walking around in public. Regardless if that's illegal or not in and of itself, any reasonable person will perceive them to be up to no good. That's just the reality of it.

 

[spat]

watch/ listen to the video, you will be Arrested for "disobeying a lawful order" ... WHY because I assume they know the state laws and what they did was lawful. So let's pull from the bag of go too charges.

Whenever i see the "lawful order" charge, I have to ask, what law gave them the authority to give that order ?

If the legislature can't pass a law about something because they are restrained by the constitution from doing so, then they certainly can't give police the authority to give that order without legislation.

Something doesn't magically become a lawful order just because it comes out of the mouth of a law enforcement officer.

Doesn't piss me off quite as much as the stand alone "resisting arrest" charge though. If you didn't have another charge you were arresting them for to begin with, then you are guilty of false arrest, even if they were guilty of resisting it.

 

[Shadow2]

I'm sure your very much 2A just busting chops. You can not compare a home owner on his own property, to a public servent on public property. One person was armed, they had cameras one clearly claimed they where there to file a company i'm sorry you don't loose your right because things seem strange. It's that mind set that brought us stop and frisk and which continues to bring us gun control, because just owning guns to some "reasonable people" is a sign that someone up to know good. The term reasonable is subjective and has no place in law.

NOT AT ALL! I 100% support the 2a in every way and anyone on here will attest to that. I support most open carry demonstrations even if i dont agree with them, but not this one.

Answer this honestly.

What would you do if two men wearing ski masks, body armor, and carrying rifles came up to your door?

The reality is that this is not NORMAL behavior, and anyone would be in their right mind to assume that they are up to no good.

So , because they walked into a police station this way the police officers responded as they should have. Now should they technically be charged with a crime, no. Is it reasonable for the police officers to have taken them into custody until they can assess the situation, in my opinion, yes. I know that if people approached my door dressed the way they were , carrying rifles, they would be met with a rifle in the face, and i would demand they drop their weapons. If they moved too quickly they would likely end up dead, and it wouldnt matter if they just wanted me to sign an open carry petition or not. Plain and simple, it's not normal to be wearing ski masks body armor and guns walking around in public. Regardless if that's illegal or not in and of itself, any reasonable person will perceive them to be up to no good. That's just the reality of it.

 

[Shadow2]

THANK YOU!

Sadly Police have been given powers to issue orders that need to be followed even if they have no bearing on actual law or an actual crime ... prodedures have some how bypassed legislation and have become an an arrestable offense.

It's called Tyranny, and it begins with people backing the police and judges on the internet forums by judging other peoples action although they where legal, just because it's something they wouldn't do.

No loss of rights or property was envolved these two clowns did NOTHING illegal.

Whenever i see the "lawful order" charge, I have to ask, what law gave them the authority to give that order ?

If the legislature can't pass a law about something because they are restrained by the constitution from doing so, then they certainly can't give police the authority to give that order without legislation.

Something doesn't magically become a lawful order just because it comes out of the mouth of a law enforcement officer.

Doesn't piss me off quite as much as the stand alone "resisting arrest" charge though. If you didn't have another charge you were arresting them for to begin with, then you are guilty of false arrest, even if they were guilty of resisting it.

 

[Marine Cpl]

NOT AT ALL! I 100% support the 2a in every way and anyone on here will attest to that. I support most open carry demonstrations even if i dont agree with them, but not this one.

Answer this honestly.

What would you do if two men wearing ski masks, body armor, and carrying rifles came up to your door?

The reality is that this is not NORMAL behavior, and anyone would be in their right mind to assume that they are up to no good.

So , because they walked into a police station this way the police officers responded as they should have. Now should they technically be charged with a crime, no. Is it reasonable for the police officers to have taken them into custody until they can assess the situation, in my opinion, yes. I know that if people approached my door dressed the way they were , carrying rifles, they would be met with a rifle in the face, and i would demand they drop their weapons. If they moved too quickly they would likely end up dead, and it wouldnt matter if they just wanted me to sign an open carry petition or not. Plain and simple, it's not normal to be wearing ski masks body armor and guns walking around in public. Regardless if that's illegal or not in and of itself, any reasonable person will perceive them to be up to no good. That's just the reality of it.

You'd greet them with a fixed mag?

In all seriousness, you are correct. There actions although legal are not normal and are cause for investigation due to a possible threat to your life. If someone walked up to your door with a baseball bat and an orange jump suit that said, " Orange County Correctional Facility", but he was just stopping by to promote his baseball team, what would most people do?

 

[Criticalt]

Id be willing to bet that if these two guys walked into the PD dressed the way they were, with the armor and holstered handguns, they would not have scared the public and most likely not the cops either.
The masks and long guns pushed it over the edge.

 

[Shadow2]

My home is not an institution open to public for filing complaints. We can go over scenarios all day long private property owned by and individual and public property manned by public servants not the same by a long shot.

But interesting scenario, because if guys with guns, vests and ski masks where coming to my door I'd be responsible to do my due diligence and make sure they where not a police SWAT team who where at the wrong address before i even considered them to be a threat and start shooting.

 

[Marine Cpl]

My home is not an institution open to public for filing complaints. We can go over scenarios all day long private property owned by and individual and public property manned by public servants not the same by a long shot.

OK. If they walked in the police station in prison garb, would the cops have cause to take action?

 

[Shadow2]

Are they surrendering .. INTENT INTENT INTENT. And you missed my earlier posts the police reaction was not what i was questioning, it was the charges?

What did they do that was illegal? because in this situation as a juror a menacing charge would not stick with me.

OK. If they walked in the police station in prison garb, would the cops have cause to take action?

 

[Toecutter]

Isn't dearborn that " Islamic " city in Michigan , suspicious that somthing this brazen and stupid happened there.
My humble opinion.
I think cops reaction was absolutely warrented,it was incredibly stupid. Once the people are cleared and situation resolved , they should not have been charged. Unless these is a law against bringung a gun in a police station to begin with.

 

[Celt]

[QUOTE="Shadow2]

What did they do that was illegal? because in this situation as a juror a menacing charge would not stick with me.[/QUOTE]


Agreed, i dont think that they would be charged with a crime (it surely wouldnt stick, imo), but i could see the police arresting them with that in mind.