Does the 4th Amendment really exist?

[Snappo]

I read recently that if you own a farm or a bunch of land in general, that nothing precludes a Game Warden coming onto your property without a warrant if he says he is looking to make sure that the wild animals (deer, geese, etc) are safe. Apparently the State owns all the wild animals (deer, geese, turkeys, etc) and they do not need a warrant to check on animal safety. And then someone further told me that sometimes when the police cannot get a judge to sign a warrant, that they bring a Game Warden with them just so they don't need a warrant. Has anyone heard this story?

 

[Criticalt]

I have first hand knowledge of this. A few years ago I was having ALOT of problems with poaching on our 600 aces. I did what I could short of hunting down and eliminating the culprits.
I called the DEC and they sent their guys. They got my "permission" to set up cameras and to do stakeouts on the property.
I was informed that because I alerted them to game being killed illegally, they did not need permission to investigate state wildlife crimes. They informed me also that even though I owned the property, the state owns the wildlife.
They were all very cool and understood the fact that it was my property and told me they would not do anything without alerting me first.
They did make two arrests and the poaching stopped. I havent seen them sinse.

 

[Criticalt]

Also, about ten years ago a friend of mine was visited by state wildlife persons. Im not sure who they worked for.
They informed him that the protected wetlands next to his property were in danger of drying up. They said they needed to divert a small creek on his property to feed the wetlands. They also accused him of possibly causing the problem by diverting another small creek to water his cattle. He agreed and the wetlands are flourishing.

 

[Snappo]

Just seems like LEO agencies using Game Wardens as a human search warrant is kind of sketchy. It's up there with no-knock warrants. I don't think I have ever seen a Game Warden in NY - maybe they are as rare as the Utah Jackelope. But I would feel my rights were violated if I was out and about on my land and a GW magically appeared. Same way I'd feel if I got no-knock'ed.

Messed up story - when I was living in GA the George Sate Police and Atlanta PD no-knocked a little old 92 year old woman. She "allegedly" grabbed her gun and they shot her to death; 39 times in fact. Then afterwards they said "oh fuck - wrong address". They ghosted this little old lady for no reason. In an effort to cover it up, one of the cops planted a bag of weed at the scene a few hours later to try and justify the no-knock. Of course the cops got busted for that scam, and three of them got sentenced to a decade in the slammer after pleading guilty. Sometimes makes me wonder just how real this Bill of Rights even is.

Kathryn Johnston shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Magnus]

So they can claim they saw a wounded animal on your land and just walk on it to "check." Can they walk into your house under this authority?

 

[Snappo]

So they can claim they saw a wounded animal on your land and just walk on it to "check." Can they walk into your house under this authority?

Yes - from what I read it goes down like this: The Popo bring a game warden with them. The game warden is the first onto the property and says he is looking for an injured deer, or an injured duck. He can go anywhere on the property and by law nobody can stop him. Then he says to the Popo that he saw "some sort of illegal activity" in one of the buildings (house, barn, etc). At that point the rest of the Popo come in and kick in the door based on "probable cause" based on what the game warden said. It's a 100% avoidance of the 4th Amendment and the article said that this scam happens a lot when the Popo doesn't get the search warrant they asked the judge for.

 

[Snappo]

Here check this out. It says we as citizens have "no expectation of privacy". They can look through windows, under cracks in doors, look anywhere on the property, etc. And now they can even look in cars by saying "I think someone might have poached and animal". Then they "Think they saw something" and in comes the Popo.

OGC 7: Staff Access to Property or Premises - NYS Dept. of Environmental Conservation

 

[Robin]

The constitution does not stop at the CO's door step.
Robin

 

[Snappo]

The constitution does not stop at the CO's door step.
Robin

The constitution stops at just saying "Congress can make laws". And if Congress makes a law that's squirrelly, then the Judicial branch is supposed to step in and say no. But we have seen that doesn't really happen. Back 160 years ago, Lincoln said he didn't want rich people that could possibly support the views of Jefferson Davis to cause any trouble. So he literally had his troops round up citizens and throw them into prison for the length of the war. And I'm not talking 5 or 10 rebellious opinionated people - Lincoln threw something like 15,000 upper class people in prison and refused them a trial. It's called the suspension of Habeas Corpus, or your right to due process. When the SCOTUS got wind of what Lincoln was up to, they said he couldn't suspend Habeas Corpus. Lincoln ignored the Chief Justice of SCOTUS (Roger Taney) and did whatever he wanted anyway. As the story goes, Lincoln even threatened to throw SCOTUS Chief Justice Tanner in those military concentration camps.

The actions of Lincoln do a fairly elegant job of teaching us that the Bill of Rights is just a nice piece of paper that doesn't really exist in the real world.

 

[eagleridge357]

How about the FED controlling our money system?

 

[ProgSpear]

How about the feds running our school systems. The concept of school boards is a joke.

 

[Snappo]

How about the FED controlling our money system?

Article 1 Section 8 gives them that right.
"To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;"

 

[Snappo]

How about the feds running our school systems. The concept of school boards is a joke.

That kinda weirds me out too. The Fed can basically tell States: "here is what you better teach if you want our federal funding" and bully States into altering history. I suspect that has already been happening quite a bit. The kids nowadays never read the US Constitution, Deceleration of Independence, Magna Carta, Writs of Habeas Corpus, or the Militia Act of 1792. People think they are free and unencumbered by government, but have no idea how it was 225 years ago. Its like Uncle Sam is dumbing down these people on purpose and turning them into lemmings. Like that movie Idiocracy with Owen Wilson's brother and the cute chick from Bridesmaids.

 

[SigLady]

I read recently that if you own a farm or a bunch of land in general, that nothing precludes a Game Warden coming onto your property without a warrant if he says he is looking to make sure that the wild animals (deer, geese, etc) are safe. Apparently the State owns all the wild animals (deer, geese, turkeys, etc) and they do not need a warrant to check on animal safety. And then someone further told me that sometimes when the police cannot get a judge to sign a warrant, that they bring a Game Warden with them just so they don't need a warrant. Has anyone heard this story?

I have heard similar stories from people in my area... a friend was busted for fishing without a license when they found fish in his car-- and he didn't need a search warrant. Apparently constitutional limitations don't apply to them.

 

[Snappo]

I have heard similar stories from people in my area... a friend was busted for fishing without a license when they found fish in his car-- and he didn't need a search warrant. Apparently constitutional limitations don't apply to them.

Which seems hokey to me. Let's say Killery Clintard gets in office, and makes a new organization called "The Bubba Department" and passes a Presidential Directive that Uncle Sam owns all the steel in America and makes it a form of currency. Then she tells the Bubba Department they can go grab firearms from homes without a warrant because the Gubmint owns all the steel in America and there is steel in those firearms. Then the BD goes door to door and knocks them all in and confiscates all weapons. And before everyone says that's crazy, Uncle Sam did this before. They decided they owned all the gold in America and made it a felony to possess gold beyond a wedding ring. Check this out: Executive Order 6102 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[SigLady]

Which seems hokey to me. Let's say Killery Clintard gets in office, and makes a new organization called "The Bubba Department" and passes a Presidential Directive that Uncle Sam owns all the steel in America and makes it a form of currency. Then she tells the Bubba Department they can go grab firearms from homes without a warrant because the Gubmint owns all the steel in America and there is steel in those firearms. Then the BD goes door to door and knocks them all in and confiscates all weapons. And before everyone says that's crazy, Uncle Sam did this before. They decided they owned all the gold in America and made it a felony to possess gold beyond a wedding ring. Check this out: Executive Order 6102 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The only ones exempt would be KelTec and Glock owners!

 

[Saltwater60]

I agree the fourth is pretty much dead. Sorry. Look at the yahoo debacle, border patrol can just ask your idea at anytime any where in the USA. In nys they are taking your guns for any domestic call if a crime was committed or not. This country is a joke. We're done.

 

[Airborneguy]

Messed up story - when I was living in GA the George Sate Police and Atlanta PD no-knocked a little old 92 year old woman. She "allegedly" grabbed her gun and they shot her to death; 39 times in fact. Then afterwards they said "oh fuck - wrong address". They ghosted this little old lady for no reason. In an effort to cover it up, one of the cops planted a bag of weed at the scene a few hours later to try and justify the no-knock. Of course the cops got busted for that scam, and three of them got sentenced to a decade in the slammer after pleading guilty. Sometimes makes me wonder just how real this Bill of Rights even is.

Kathryn Johnston shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Would seem like the Bill of Rights is pretty damn real since the criminals who did that were sentenced to jail for their crimes, no?

 

[Airborneguy]

Yes - from what I read it goes down like this: The Popo bring a game warden with them. The game warden is the first onto the property and says he is looking for an injured deer, or an injured duck. He can go anywhere on the property and by law nobody can stop him. Then he says to the Popo that he saw "some sort of illegal activity" in one of the buildings (house, barn, etc). At that point the rest of the Popo come in and kick in the door based on "probable cause" based on what the game warden said. It's a 100% avoidance of the 4th Amendment and the article said that this scam happens a lot when the Popo doesn't get the search warrant they asked the judge for.

So I get that you've "heard of" this scam, but have you ever "heard of" it actually happening? It seems that most police "scams" I hear of are thought up in the minds of the "concerned citizens" who spread them around rather than in the actions of actual cops...

 

[Acer-m14]

 

[ECU Pirates]

The fourth is pretty much gone. When cops can use a sense of smell to justify something (I smelled weed) or a dog's "alert" to justify a search it's pretty much gone in my opinion. The need for real probable cause is kind of non-existent.

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

The 4th amendment is all but toast. Its been slowly wittled away over time. Especially in regards to electronics anything you do on electronics, assume the government knows. So yea, they know your fetishes.....

The 2a and 1a are on the same path.

 

[BerettaGuy]

I was informed that because I alerted them to game being killed illegally, they did not need permission to investigate state wildlife crimes. They informed me also that even though I owned the property, the state owns the wildlife..

What you have done here is describe "Socialism and or Communism". The State owns everything and you a but a passing annoyance.
It also sounds as if you had Robin Hood visiting your property doesn't it. After all the Sheriff of Nottingham's job was to protect the Sovereign's deer and wildlife from the people who were Hunting without permission.

Funny, the Founders made we the people the Sovereigns here in the U.S. but somewhere that got lost. Probably for the common good or safety donchaknow.

The left's only remaining right to destroy is property rights, and those are almost gone too.

 

[spat]

So I get that you've "heard of" this scam, but have you ever "heard of" it actually happening? It seems that most police "scams" I hear of are thought up in the minds of the "concerned citizens" who spread them around rather than in the actions of actual cops...

2 words.

Asset forfeiture.

Cops actually steal more than criminals now.

Some departments are worse than others, but I don't think there any that properly consider asset forfeiture theft.

 

[Criticalt]

What you have done here is describe "Socialism and or Communism". The State owns everything and you a but a passing annoyance.
It also sounds as if you had Robin Hood visiting your property doesn't it. After all the Sheriff of Nottingham's job was to protect the Sovereign's deer and wildlife from the people who were Hunting without permission.

Funny, the Founders made we the people the Sovereigns here in the U.S. but somewhere that got lost. Probably for the common good or safety donchaknow.

The left's only remaining right to destroy is property rights, and those are almost gone too.

The big kick in the head was them saying how they understand it was my property and the respected that, BUT....we will do what we want!!
My first response to them was, "well, get YOUR animals off MY property". They laughed, then sighed when I didnt laugh.
Or,maybe I could charge their animals rent.

 

[brownclown]

You all would of shit yourself if u heard the bs animal control fed my. Basically they have the same power to enter where ever and when ever. They came to my house because it was reported I was neglecting my dogs , leaving them out without appropriate housing. When I explained I have dog door and they could freely go in and out as they choose they backed off a bit. Then they demanded to see there licence. I said they weren't needed as they only exist on my property. They said if I don't get them licenced they would be back to take them. I was getting really pissed now and said they better not enter my property without a warrant or there would be issues. The told none was required and could even enter my house if they believed animals were being neglected. I told them to get the fuck off my property and I would be mistake for them to return. They then inquired with police about my stability. Good thing I had friend working there who vouched for my character I this could have escalated . And I did end up getting them licenced to avoid future issues.

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[ECU Pirates]

You all would of shit yourself if u heard the bs animal control fed my. Basically they have the same power to enter where ever and when ever. They came to my house because it was reported I was neglecting my dogs , leaving them out without appropriate housing. When I explained I have dog door and they could freely go in and out as they choose they backed off a bit. Then they demanded to see there licence. I said they weren't needed as they only exist on my property. They said if I don't get them licenced they would be back to take them. I was getting really pissed now and said they better not enter my property without a warrant or there would be issues. The told none was required and could even enter my house if they believed animals were being neglected. I told them to get the fuck off my property and I would be mistake for them to return. They then inquired with police about my stability. Good thing I had friend working there who vouched for my character I this could have escalated . And I did end up getting them licenced to avoid future issues.

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Pay the dog tax. That's all a license is.


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[Criticalt]

Yep, all my dogs are licensed.
It was a real bitch attaching the license plates!

 

[HIghlander]

Yep, all my dogs are licensed.
It was a real bitch attaching the license plates!

Bet they didn't like having the tube up their tail pipe for emissions testing.

 

[ProgSpear]

Bet they didn't like having the tube up their tail pipe for emissions testing.

Wrong department. Animal control busts you for licenses. DEC monitors emissions, using borrowed equipment from the DMV. They also have mobile swat style vans to raid farmers for cows with flatulence. I heard it from a friend of a friend who read it on the internet.