Federal's .30 Super Carry. All that is old is new

[Podmonkey]

30 Super Carry

Introducing the all-new 30 Super Carry from Federal - the most revolutionary Personal Defense advancement in nearly 100-years.

www.federalpremium.com

This is basically a recreation of the 7.65x20 French Long cartridge, which is what the French called the .30 Pedersen cartridge when they adopted it as their service pistol round.
The .30 Pedersen was developed for the Pedersen device which replaced the bolt of a 1903 Springfield to covert it into a semi automatic firearm. It never saw service.
The cartridge and device were developed in 1917 and the war ended before it could very issued. Just as well, as most consider that it would have been an ineffective weapon. You basically have the functionality (dubiously) projectile a sub machine gun but with the size and mass of a rifle.

30 PEDERSEN DEVICE - Cartridge Collector

Officially designated the “Automatic Pistol, Caliber .30, Model of 1918- Mark I”, the Pedersen Device consisted of a semi-automatic bolt detachable magazine designed to replace the standard bolt in a modified Model 1903 Rifle and convert it into a semi-automatic weapon. The device fired a low...

cartridgecollector.net

 

[dsdmmat]

The answer to the question not asked? Kind of cool they design a cartridge and gun together but it is an “ehh” cartridge.

I like oddball cartridges i mean I have things like 17 HMR, 17WSM, 17 Remington, .356 TS&W, 38 super, .40 S&W, 10mm, 41 magnum, 224 Valkyrie, 300 blackout, 6.5 Creedmoor and 35 Remington. But this one is probably not going to make it to my safe.

 

[Podmonkey]

The answer to the question not asked? Kind of cool they design a cartridge and gun together but it is an “ehh” cartridge.

I like oddball cartridges i mean I have things like 17 HMR, 17WSM, 17 Remington, .356 TS&W, 38 super, .40 S&W, 10mm, 41 magnum, 224 Valkyrie, 300 blackout, 6.5 Creedmoor and 35 Remington. But this one is probably not going to make it to my safe.

Ballistic-wise it is probably okay, the French were happy enough with the 7.65 and the Federal cartridge is a bit hotter yet. Having sufficient energy while giving 12 rounds in the same space as 10 9mms is nice but not enough to matter. A new cartridge has to bring a hell of a lot extra to the table to be successful. The 6.5 Creedmoor is probably the only new round to have found a secure footing. Even cartridges that had have had promising starts are facing such as the 357 SIG which had more going for it than the 30 Super Carry does. It is in the same boat as the .327 Federal I suppose. Federal seems to have a predilection for .32 caliber.

 

[dsdmmat]

The 300 blackout seems to be very popular in NC. Maybe because people can own suppressors here. The 6.5 CM 38 super and The 41 magnum have a following down here as well. Weird

 

[Justincase]

I guess it’s strong suit is that it’s less snappy in micro compacts

 

[Xae289]

The answer to the question not asked? Kind of cool they design a cartridge and gun together but it is an “ehh” cartridge.

I like oddball cartridges i mean I have things like 17 HMR, 17WSM, 17 Remington, .356 TS&W, 38 super, .40 S&W, 10mm, 41 magnum, 224 Valkyrie, 300 blackout, 6.5 Creedmoor and 35 Remington. But this one is probably not going to make it to my safe.

Honestly, most of those aren't all that oddball.

But yea, I agree. This is a middle-ground between the 9mm and the .380 when it comes to power with more capacity than either. In a capacity-restricted state, that makes no sense to me. In a free state, I can see someone who's recoil-sensitive and/or wants every last round of capacity he can get making use of it. Still, I expect it to be the same as Federal's .327 Magnum – a hyped-up dud.

Also, the release timing is pretty awful with the ammo market being what it is.

 

[dsdmmat]

Honestly, most of those aren't all that oddball.

But yea, I agree. This is a middle-ground between the 9mm and the .380 when it comes to power with more capacity than either. In a capacity-restricted state, that makes no sense to me. In a free state, I can see someone who's recoil-sensitive and/or wants every last round of capacity he can get making use of it. Still, I expect it to be the same as Federal's .327 Magnum – a hyped-up dud.

Also, the release timing is pretty awful with the ammo market being what it is.

They were at one time.

 

[Darth]

Federal put their dime in the coffer to get it on the front page of a certain ammo website that ships to your door in NY.

 

[Podmonkey]

Federal put their dime in the coffer to get it on the front page of a certain ammo website that ships to your door in NY.

What was the price per round?

 

[meketrefe]

If you are going to loose grain then trade for massive speed.
10mm necked down to 30 caliber

 

[Podmonkey]

If you are going to loose grain then trade for massive speed.
10mm necked down to 30 caliber

View attachment 142507

That's not really in the spirit of what Federal is trying to achieve. The 30 Super Carry is billed as a cartridge for small CCWs.
Lotsa luck tying to gain headway against the 9mm and .380 I says.

Know what though? Given price and availability were the same as 9mm Para I'd consider it. 100gr @1250fps seems sufficient to me and +2 rounds over 9mm is decent. But that's the thing, price and availability will never be on par with 9mm and in the end I deem 10+1 of 9 in a Shield Plus as sufficient also. Plus 26 rounds of back up in my system is very decent for such a lo-pro setup as mine.

 

[Getzville 068]

The .41 magnum is decades old. It's here to stay.

 

[That_FNG]

 

[meketrefe]

That's not really in the spirit of what Federal is trying to achieve. The 30 Super Carry is billed as a cartridge for small CCWs.
Lotsa luck tying to gain headway against the 9mm and .380 I says.

Know what though? Given price and availability were the same as 9mm Para I'd consider it. 100gr @1250fps seems sufficient to me and +2 rounds over 9mm is decent. But that's the thing, price and availability will never be on par with 9mm and in the end I deem 10+1 of 9 in a Shield Plus as sufficient also. Plus 26 rounds of back up in my system is very decent for such a lo-pro setup as mine.

I think it would be worth making things people want to buy.
Something that fills a clear gap, or provides some sort of advantage or something that is very hard these days as we are saturated with all
sort of options.
this one doesn't provide anything.
A 10mm-30 is half way between a high power pistol and a rifle round.
It would be ideal for 8-10" pdws too.
But then we have the sig and dillon so whats the point of all this?

 

[FRANKIE]

Well if anybody’s looking for the .30 cal for the Pedersen device, they got a deal on GB
$499 for a 40 rd box (with 8 missing)
Corrosive I’m sure lol!
You know the prices of ammo these days

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/914628411

 

[Xae289]

View attachment 142551

Tokarev reloaders might end up getting some better bullets for their cartridge.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Not going to lie, it took longer for a thread to start about this..

This round will be DOA.. weirdly enough the only guns that will or plan to be chambered in it right out the gate are

1) S&W M&P EZ in 30sc (the will)
2) Nighthawk is thinking of making a "1911ish" (the maybe)

Will it be a terrible caliber, who knows will have to wait until the actual testing and evaluation (gel tests and such) come out, but personally I don't think it offers much over current 9mm to actually survive much past initial launch.

Only time will tell

 

[That_FNG]

Not going to lie, it took longer for a thread to start about this..

This round will be DOA.. weirdly enough the only guns that will or plan to be chambered in it right out the gate are

1) S&W M&P EZ in 30sc (the will)
2) Nighthawk is thinking of making a "1911ish" (the maybe)

Will it be a terrible caliber, who knows will have to wait until the actual testing and evaluation (gel tests and such) come out, but personally I don't think it offers much over current 9mm to actually survive much past initial launch.

Only time will tell

There’s already quite a few Nighthawk 1911’s on gunbroker chambered in 30 super carry. Pricing in the $3-5k range. Since it is essentially 30 tokarev but with modern bullet design, I would imagine that it performs at least as well as 30 tokarev does.

 

[spat]

I don't know, seems like a solution in search of a problem to me.

"I wish someone made a round half way between a 9mm and a .380, but maybe in 30 cal" just doesn’t seem like the kind of thing you hear a lot IMHO.

The entire field seems pretty mature and very dense with options to me. Seems like any new offering needs to be revolutionary (like caseless or something) to be of much real value.

Anything else is going to be a very marginal improvement on an existing cartridge at best.

There just isn't room to make any combination of parameters that is all that divergent from what's already out there. Like trying to sell engineers on using 15/32 bolts in a new design. They'll say "pick a size, 7/16 and 1/2 are widely available, why would we want to add another size in between".

 

[dsdmmat]

…… Like trying to sell engineers on using 15/32 bolts in a new design. They'll say "pick a size, 7/16 and 1/2 are widely available, why would we want to add another size in between".

Automotive and Aviation industry crap right there. You can’t work on your engine because it requires a 31 tooth 15/32 super shallow nonmetallic socket wrench. Not available anytime or anywhere.

 

[fresch]

If you look around you will find The old timers figured things out pretty well.
Go pick an old round make it with modern components. 25/20, 357/44BD I don't have my "Cartridges Of The World" book with me to look up some old pin fire you could make into center fire etc..

 

[Edwardteach72]

I would imagine that it performs at least as well as 30 tokarev does.

I've never seen 30 tokarev FBI ballistic gel test

 

[spat]

Automotive and Aviation industry crap right there. You can’t work on your engine because it requires a 31 tooth 15/32 super shallow nonmetallic socket wrench. Not available anytime or anywhere.

Those are invented by marketing droids that say "use this and we can force people to buy ridiculously overpriced tools from us because nobody else makes them".

Engineers hate marketing droids for a good reason

 

[Saltwater60]

I guess it’s strong suit is that it’s less snappy in micro compacts

That and they say it is ballistically similar to a 9mm cartridge and you get 20% more rounds. That sounds good, but I’m not free stares it means nothing and a micro compact of 6 rounds you get one extra boolit at 8 rounds you could extend the ma a touch and get two extra.
I was excited to rea about it, but I agree it wasn’t that exciting after reading about it.

 

[Edwardteach72]

That and they say it is ballistically similar to a 9mm cartridge and you get 20% more rounds.

They are most likely comparing the hottest (30sc) to the weakest (9mm)

 

[meketrefe]

That and they say it is ballistically similar to a 9mm cartridge and you get 20% more rounds. That sounds good, but I’m not free stares it means nothing and a micro compact of 6 rounds you get one extra boolit at 8 rounds you could extend the ma a touch and get two extra.
I was excited to rea about it, but I agree it wasn’t that exciting after reading about it.

Any manufacturer could put a modern tokarev and a modern compact pistol to go with it.
something that would be backwards compatible with the old round and make a
stronger p++ to further develop the case design.
So, why is not being adopted with so many tokarevs already spread all over?
The answer is: 9mm luger. That allowed the average user to choose between speed or grain and
in most cases, for compact pistols, trade off a bit of speed for some extra grain and people seem
to be happy with it all over the world.

Companies w/o a vision or much R&D will continue to follow their spaghetti strategy:

"toss it to the wall and see if it sticks"

No research, no vision, no follow through.... we know how that worked out for Remington.

 

[Podmonkey]

The hottest 7.65x25 submachine gun loads pushed more energy than any 9mm, nipping at the heels of 357 SIG so 30 Super is not near to the Tokerev cartridge. It does seem somewhat close to .327 Federal Magnum it both projectile weight and velocities, go figure. .327 Mag no doubt has a significantly higher ceiling however.
Nor is the 30 Super quite on par with 9mm Para. At least according what little published data exists. Federal seems to be going with heavy for caliber projectiles for this cartridge. I saw a published load consisting of a 100gr pill launched @1250 fps. My typical carry load is a 9mm Federal HST 124gr +p likewise @1250fps which clearly is a significantly more powerful round.

EDIT- .327 Magnum pushes the same weight projectiless as .30 Super but at about 200fps faster so not even close to tge same power level. I always thought the .327 was an interesting cartridge saddled with the same "answer to a question no one asked" status as it's new rimless sibling here. Tell you what though, if I was a revolver guy and I was CCWing a small frame snubbie it'd be in .327.

 

[That_FNG]

I've never seen 30 tokarev FBI ballistic gel test

 

[Saltwater60]

They are most likely comparing the hottest (30sc) to the weakest (9mm)

The ballistics are claimed to be 1250FPS, about 100 FPS more than your average 9mm self defense round and 350 fp of energy. That’s essentially what most 9mm rounds get. A little heavier and larger bullet that’s slower compared to smaller lighter bullet that’s a tad faster, but you know all this.
Essentially they are working with the manufacturers of guns to push the capacity limits that are popular right now.
9mm reviews

7 Great 9mm Pistol Defensive Loads - Handguns

When your life depends on it, you can rely on these seven 9mm defensive loads.

www.handgunsmag.com

.30 super info.

A Cartridge Optimized for Concealed Carriers: Federal's New 30 Super Carry

Federal Ammunition is announcing their newest cartridge for self-defense, the 30 Super Carry. Along with it they've shared a couple of early adopters: Nighthawk Custom and Smith & Wesson.

www.gunsamerica.com

Ive got no dog in the fight, while this is interesting, I’m not interested in this caliber at this time.

 

[Podmonkey]

The ballistics are claimed to be 1250FPS, about 100 FPS more than your average 9mm self defense round and 350 fp of energy. That’s essentially what most 9mm rounds get. A little heavier and larger bullet that’s slower compared to smaller lighter bullet that’s a tad faster, but you know all this.
Essentially they are working with the manufacturers of guns to push the capacity limits that are popular right now.
9mm reviews

7 Great 9mm Pistol Defensive Loads - Handguns

When your life depends on it, you can rely on these seven 9mm defensive loads.

www.handgunsmag.com

.30 super info.

A Cartridge Optimized for Concealed Carriers: Federal's New 30 Super Carry

Federal Ammunition is announcing their newest cartridge for self-defense, the 30 Super Carry. Along with it they've shared a couple of early adopters: Nighthawk Custom and Smith & Wesson.

www.gunsamerica.com

Ive got no dog in the fight, while this is interesting, I’m not interested in this caliber at this time.

I wonder at what pressure the 30 Super is operating at? I suspect +P levels.
A standard pressure 124gr round typically generates around 360 ft-lbs of muzzle energy from 1,150fps. A +P gives about 430 ft-lbs from 1250fps. The new .30 definitely nestles neatly between the 9mm Para and .380 ACP.
In terms of energy it is actually pretty similar to the old .38 ACP (9x23SR). Certainly a size and weight efficient cartridge.