Feedback on first time reloading equipment

[RooftopKorean]

I'm currently looking to purchase reloading equipment. I have never reloaded but have been watching videos and reading up on it for 6 months.

So far I have purchased:

• Lee Loadmaster Progressive Press (got it for a steal on Ebay w/ 3 tool heads and 3 shellplates #2L, #4S, #19S, it was just missing the Auto Disk Powder Measure) for $300 from someone in Long Island.
• Lee Large Primer Feeder Assembly
• Lee die sets
  • Auto-Drum Powder Measure Riser for Turret
  • Powder Charging Die Kit
  • .223 Remington Pacesetter 3-die set & Collet Neck Sizer die
  • .303 British Pacesetter 3-die set
  • .458 Socom Very LTD 3-die set
  • .45-70 Gov't Steel 3-die set
  • 6.5 Creedmoor Ultimate Rifle 4-die set
• Lyman Universal Case Trimmer
• Hornady 50160 Lock N Load Case Prep Trio
• Hornady 50106 G2-1500 Powder Scale
• Hornady Reloading Book 10th Edition
• Frankford Arsenal Brass Case Tumbler
• RCBS Case Lube Kit
• InlineFabs Ultramount Reloading Press Riser for Lee Loadmaster
• InlineFabs Skylight LED Lighting System
• InlineFabs Roller Handle Conversion
• InlineFabs Double Bin w/ Swing Arm

Already have:

• Digital calipers
• Allen keys set

I'll need a few other things like:

• Reloading reference book
• Lube pad / lube
• Primer Pocket Reamer
• Die sets (45 ACP, 44 Magnum)
• Reloading Trays
• LED lighting system
• Additional tool heads
• Roller handle conversion
• Ultramount w/ arm and bins

Going based on Big John's thread I have the basics covered. Additionally, I would like some feedback on my tool selection and anything else that more experienced reloaders suggest.

As of right now I'm roughly $1200 in.

 

[BDinPutnam]

I got nothing, but I'm subscribing to this thread, I am a little behind you in this (I'm in the reading phase) and looking to get into this, too.

 

[alistair]

Some additional info is needed before intelligent comments can be made .... what calibers do you want to reload, and how much do you shoot each caliber?

 

[kev74]

A couple of books I would recommend are "The ABCs of Reloading" and Richard Lee's "Modern Reloading"

Both give a good, easy to understand overview of the reloading process. Lee pushes his company's equipment, but overlooking the salesmanship, the information is good and there is a ton of load data.

 

[Hillbilly77]

Dillon makes nice stuff (disclosure - I don’t own any Dillon equipt.). One common complaint with Dillon is that the conversion kits are expensive.

My advice for a scale - get a balance beam style instead of digital (or at least own both). An Ohaus 505 or RCBS 505 is a great option. My digital scale started acting screwy to the point where I couldn’t trust it no matter what I did. I ended up tossing it and sticking with my Ohaus.

Instead of buying the Lyman and Hornady case prepping tools separately, look into a Frankford Arsenal Case Trim & Prep Center - it does everything the other two do in one tool. Maybe save some money, and take up less space.

 

[Mosinitis]

My standard advice to new reloader, buy RCBS Rock Chucker Reloading Kit. Start with a single stage press and learn the process. Then if you need speed buy progressive for pistol and use RCBS tools for rifle calibers. Nothing goes to waste, since all items in RCBS kit are very popular on their own and you will eventually need them if you will load for rifle.

 

[Carlos Hathcock]

Choose a sponsor who'll be able to take late night phone calls to help you with your addiction.

 

[repete]

Mosinitis has it! Start simple , one die means one problem at a time! I've never used Dillon so know nothing about them.
If you use commercial brass you only need to clean the primer pockets

 

[togmaster]

If your primary goal is to load pistol I recommend a progressive press. Buy once, cry once. While single stage presses are simpler, your production will be so slow it will be cheaper to buy factory loaded ammo (For pistol). If you go slow and pay attention you will not have any problems learning to use a progressive press. BTW the Dillon 550 you are looking at is the best of both worlds. It's a manual indexing progressive press. While not the fastest it is excellent for loading both pistol and rifle.

 

[RooftopKorean]

The only pistol rounds I plan on loading is 45 ACP and 44 Magnum. I'm really reloading because I shoot expensive rifle rounds 458 Socom, 45-70 Govt, 308 Win, 303 British and 6.5 Creedmoor.

I'm looking mainly at the Dillon RL 550 because I like the idea of the tool heads where once I get each caliber setup I can leave it and just move the powder charger. It seems like overall it's less fuss so you don't have to readjust dies every time you press a different caliber; more expensive to get going but the convenience in the end.

 

[RooftopKorean]

Dillon makes nice stuff (disclosure - I don’t own any Dillon equipt.). One common complaint with Dillon is that the conversion kits are expensive.

I would agree with your assessment. When I was looking for the conversion kits they were $50 on average which only has a new plate and powder tube.

Between conversion kits, tool heads and dies for all the rifle calibers I want to reload I'm probably looking at $500-$550. This is taking into account that I wouldn't need to buy complete conversion kits for 45 ACP and 458 SOCOM as they share the same plates and I would just need a different powder tube. Same goes for 308 Win and 6.5 Creedmoor since it's the same case.

I would still need different dies of course

Dillon actually has a nice PDF document which shows you what calibers share which plates and such.

 

[RooftopKorean]

Some additional info is needed before intelligent comments can be made .... what calibers do you want to reload, and how much do you shoot each caliber?

• .303 British
• .308 Win
• .458 Socom
• .45-70 Govt
• 6.5 Creedmoor

I go thru about 50 rounds of any 3 calibers when I get to the range which is usually 2-3 times a month. This isn't including .223/5.55 and if I shoot .308 Win it's usually about 75-100 rounds.

I also go through roughly 100 rounds of 9mm or 45 ACP as well. And once NYPD decides to stop fucking around after the covid-19; madness is over perhaps I can pick up my Taurus Raging Hunter 44 Magnum.

Before the outbreak I was already waiting 120 days (30 over the 90 days) because of processing delays.

FUAC and Diblowsio!!

/Rant off

 

[kev74]

The only pistol rounds I plan on loading is 45 ACP and 44 Magnum. I'm really reloading because I shoot expensive rifle rounds 458 Socom, 45-70 Govt, 308 Win, 303 British and 6.5 Creedmoor.

I'm looking mainly at the Dillon RL 550 because I like the idea of the tool heads where once I get each caliber setup I can leave it and just move the powder charger. It seems like overall it's less fuss so you don't have to readjust dies every time you press a different caliber; more expensive to get going but the convenience in the end.

If you plan on using the 550 for rifle rounds, you're going loose some efficiency. You'll have to run it through once to resize, trim the brass, then run it through again to load. I prefer a single stage press for rifle rounds because of this.

I like a progressive press for pistol rounds. I learned on a progressive and don't feel like I was at any disadvantage for doing so. But I still use single stage for rifle - even .223. Once the brass prep is done, I can crank out 50 rifle rounds - prime, charge with powder, check a few powder charge weights on the scale, then top with bullets - in 20 minutes on a single stage.

 

[Varmint]

My standard advice to new reloader, buy RCBS Rock Chucker Reloading Kit. Start with a single stage press and learn the process. Then if you need speed buy progressive for pistol and use RCBS tools for rifle calibers. Nothing goes to waste, since all items in RCBS kit are very popular on their own and you will eventually need them if you will load for rifle.

This!

 

[dwa12479]

I started with and still currently use a Lee 4 holeTurret press. You can remove the indexing rod and use it as a single stage to get your feet wet, and then move on to making rounds pretty quick. Not as fast as a progressive, but quicker than single stage.

 

[RooftopKorean]

If you plan on using the 550 for rifle rounds, you're going loose some efficiency. You'll have to run it through once to resize, trim the brass, then run it through again to load. I prefer a single stage press for rifle rounds because of this.

I like a progressive press for pistol rounds. I learned on a progressive and don't feel like I was at any disadvantage for doing so. But I still use single stage for rifle - even .223. Once the brass prep is done, I can crank out 50 rifle rounds - prime, charge with powder, check a few powder charge weights on the scale, then top with bullets - in 20 minutes on a single stage.

You have to resize and trim regardless whether you are using a progressive or single stage, right? So why not just use a progressive so you don't have to manually do the primer, powder drop and bullet seating and/or crimping (if needed) in phases.

Am i missing something?

From what I gather with a single stage, after you clean, lube, resize, trim and prep your brass:

1. Seat primers
2. Drop powder and set back into tray
3. Bullet drop
4. Crimp (if needed)

Except, each step you have to do 100 times (the obligatory number you are making).

The progressive just does it one by one with each yank of the handle?

 

[kev74]

You have to resize and trim regardless whether you are using a progressive or single stage, right? So why not just use a progressive so you don't have to manually do the primer, powder drop and bullet seating and/or crimping (if needed) in phases.

Am i missing something?

From what I gather with a single stage, after you clean, lube, resize, trim and prep your brass:

1. Seat primers
2. Drop powder and set back into tray
3. Bullet drop
4. Crimp (if needed)

Except, each step you have to do 100 times (the obligatory number you are making).

The progressive just does it one by one with each yank of the handle?

It makes more sense when you say it than when I thunk it.

 

[Uninformed and Compliant]

You have to resize and trim regardless whether you are using a progressive or single stage, right? So why not just use a progressive so you don't have to manually do the primer, powder drop and bullet seating and/or crimping (if needed) in phases.

Am i missing something?

From what I gather with a single stage, after you clean, lube, resize, trim and prep your brass:

1. Seat primers
2. Drop powder and set back into tray
3. Bullet drop
4. Crimp (if needed)

Except, each step you have to do 100 times (the obligatory number you are making).

The progressive just does it one by one with each yank of the handle?

Some things I do on my 650 - the exact process varies with the round (.223 vs 6.5 vs 45/70 vs pistol etc).

I have a toolhead with exactly a (generic) decapper. It doesn't resize. I use this for all calibers before wet tumbling. See if you can get one with very cheap replacement decapping pins. RCBS makes a "universal decapper" that you can make your own pins out of a finishing nail - make the tip round with nothing stabby or sharp.

I have a toolhead with exactly the sizing die.
Precision stuff (bolt guns) use a neck size die. Most stuff uses normal full-length sizer. For .223, I use a bump sizer.
Run 'em all thru, then use go/no-go gauge to see if trim is needed.

Trim if needed. Wash again if using a lanolin based lube (Dillon etc).

Final toolhead has everything else. Do an idiot check on the result and call 'em done.


Stuff to look into getting:


You might want a "go/no-go" gauge for some cases. I find it useful for bulk .223 and pistol. Not so useful for 47/70, and not at all for bolt gun stuff. Dillon makes good ones, as does Wilson. They're basically a plunk test that tells you if the case is good, needs work, or is scrap. 47/70 is reloaded with a mallet, so there's no such thing as "good/no good". Bolt gun stuff, you're measuring everything with calipers anyway.

If you're using (or will be range-picking) brass from an unsupported barrel (*cough*GLOCK*cough*), you'll probably want a "bulge buster" die for it.
OR just give DoubleAlpha your money and get a Roll Sizer. Be sure to DM your address to us so we can stop by and give you many cases of beer while we use it.

Toolheads on ebay are often a decent price. Anodized ones are fantastic for keeping track of what goes with what.

Consider not buying anything, ever, from "Armanov". Guys put a lot of sweat into making things, and he just rips it off. If he has something you want, you'll likely also find it from the guy who actually thought it up for the same price.

You may or may not want a chamfer/debur tool for the case necks. Not sure if you had that listed above.

On the list of crap to buy because it's nice to have, they make primer-pocket go/no-go things. It's a double-headed plug. The small plug should fit perfectly, the large plug should not. It'll help you check (quickly) if the pocket is too small, or if it is too large.

BINS FOR BRASS. There's never enough of them. One for each cal, and probably one or two for dirty bulk brass (pistol, for example, per cal). Avoid the type that will crack after a year of UV sunlight.

Your expensive brass, you may want a two-bin system to keep track of how many times each case has been fired - so you'll know when it's time to anneal again. Reload everything from Bin 1, prep and throw dirty into Bin 2 until Bin 1 is empty - now you know everything in Bin2 was fired once and all are on the same count. Repeat until you reach your anneal count, then anneal them all.

Ziplock freezer bags (thick ones) are good for separating your brass by (brand / internal volume / whatever), within the bins, depending on how crazy you want to get with precision loads. For simple stuff, it isn't needed. HOWEVER, some brass is a LOT different than others. GRC .223 brass is a lot thicker than LakeCity, so the internal volume is significantly less; Hornady 45/70 Leverevoltion brass is significantly SHORTER than everyone else's 45/70 brass. The pressure curves on those will be radically different than the rest of your brass. Keep an eye open for stuff like this. Usually I'll toss ones that are way outside the norm, but the 45/70 brass I keep for a rainy day, knowing it needs a different recipe.

Some type of bullet puller is a must, so you can fix your mistakes. Kinetic pullers are fine, but remember to smash them against a block of wood and NOT concrete. The collet pullers ones are nicer, but... toolhead, and cost... and when they don't grip you end up using a kinetic anyway.

Apologies for the wall of text.
Cheers.

 

[RooftopKorean]

Upon further research it looks like I'm gonna have to go back to looking at a Hornady Case Prep system and get a separate trimmer as the Frankford Arsenal Case Trim and Prep does not support straight walled casings. I'm sure I'll be outbid in 5 days anyway

 

[RooftopKorean]

Your expensive brass, you may want a two-bin system to keep track of how many times each case has been fired - so you'll know when it's time to anneal again. Reload everything from Bin 1, prep and throw dirty into Bin 2 until Bin 1 is empty - now you know everything in Bin2 was fired once and all are on the same count. Repeat until you reach your anneal count, then anneal them all.

That was a lot of information so thanks for that.

Speaking on the topic of annealing, is there an easier way to anneal other than to torch the head of each round singularly? Can I line them up on a 2x4 and run down the length of the 2x4 catching all the heads like 50 at a time? I'm pretty sure I can't use a toaster oven because I wouldn't want to heat up the entire casing correct?

 

[Acer-m14]

Digital calipers .. have a supply of batteries on hand ..

and also get a dial calipers for back up .. just in case the Digital one dies ..

 

[Robin]

That was a lot of information so thanks for that.

Speaking on the topic of annealing, is there an easier way to anneal other than to torch the head of each round singularly? Can I line them up on a 2x4 and run down the length of the 2x4 catching all the heads like 50 at a time? I'm pretty sure I can't use a toaster oven because I wouldn't want to heat up the entire casing correct?

I have never annealed my case necks, its' easy enough to do, but I don't understand what advantage it gives. I'm interested to know though.
Robin

 

[Acer-m14]

@Robin if i understand it correctly , it extends the case life for more reloading keeping the neck of the case from splitting ...

 

[kev74]

Annealing kind of softens the metal. As the case expands and contracts from the pressure of shooting, and as the metal is moved in resizing, the brass work hardens. Its the same as bending a paperclip back and forth - after a few times the metal gets brittle and breaks.

Annealing makes the metal more elastic again, and hopefully the neck doesn't fail so quickly. If its over annealed though, the brass gets too soft and won't have enough tension to properly hold the bullet.

There are special paint sticks to use to indicate when you hit the right temperature.

 

[RooftopKorean]

Driving out to Long Island to pick up a butcher block table top 36" long x 24" depth x 1 3/4" thick to build my reloading/ work bench.

 

[Uninformed and Compliant]

I have never annealed my case necks, its' easy enough to do, but I don't understand what advantage it gives. I'm interested to know though.
Robin

For sport shooting, what Kev said.

For precision shooting, many people do not crimp. Since every shot and resize will make the neck stiffer and more brittle - the bullets will have different neck tension after each time, which changes the pressure curve. That will change POI, and can put you outside of your accuracy node. Annealing every (several) shots before resizing will reset the neck tension and keep things consistent. Some guys who stack holes will swear you must anneal every 4 shots; others 6; others 8, others just wing it.

There are a bunch of home-brew annealing solutions on youtube, many are quite fast and quite clever. You don't necessarily need indicator paint to anneal; you just need to be above a certain temp for some time, without getting too hot and wrecking the brass. The lower the temp, the longer the time needed, etc. You'll get all of that detail on youtube, far better than I'd explain it lol.

Cheers

 

[repete]

Upon further research it looks like I'm gonna have to go back to looking at a Hornady Case Prep system and get a separate trimmer as the Frankford Arsenal Case Trim and Prep does not support straight walled casings. I'm sure I'll be outbid in 5 days anyway

Why would you need to trim straight wall (pistol) cases? No bottle neck means almost no stretch.

 

[RooftopKorean]

Why would you need to trim straight wall (pistol) cases? No bottle neck means almost no stretch.

From what I have read, some 45-70 casings require some trimming depending on the load like the Hornady Leverevolution. I also eventually plan on getting something that shoots 50 Beowulf which is straight walled as well.

 

[Jem45472]

I've downsized to only 9mm and 556. No target shooting. Ive heard it's cheaper to just buy those two calibers. Any truth to this?

 

[Uninformed and Compliant]

I've downsized to only 9mm and 556. No target shooting. Ive heard it's cheaper to just buy those two calibers. Any truth to this?

Sort of.
You can reload 223 for 16 to 19 cents. No idea what your buy prices are for bulk, but if in lots of 100, the difference isn't much. In lots of 10,000, it's significant.

9mm, you can probably save 2 or 3 cents per shot.
3 cents isn't much, except... it's 30%, which is huge... if you shoot often enough.