FFL Transfers- What happened to the inexpensive firearm transfers?

[FP1201]

FWIW, As a FFL Dealing with Bud's sux. I try to avoid them at all cost. As far as the wholesale/distributor side of things Midway does the same thing but only on certain products and their dealer prices are not that good.

True enough...we hear from/about Bud's a lot less now, and when Dealers/FFL's here finally figured out what was going on and how it effected their bottom line (not to mention the ass ache) many refused to accept transfers from them.

I expect that most all of the "Big Box" Stores (on-line as well) warehouse/manufacturer direct products...just like Farms, it's "get big or go under" and if you've got the space and distribution network, have the product and can sell it for what a Dealer can buy it for, well you're probably going to sell a lot more of it.
Tangent: thought occurred to me, can you imagine the explosion in sales if the BATFE we abolished allowing guns and ammunition to be bought & sold before 1968, hell even better 1934.

 

[Parzival]

I'm pretty sure PSA has gotten into the wholesale/Distributor side of the Game given the prices they offer...I've seen it before, where a big retail shop will be on one side of a complex and their distribution center on the other...then you had outfits like Bud's that was simply brokering deals: you'd check with them and the warehouse(s) they were drawing from would show inventory available: order the gun from Bud's, have your FFL sent to theirs and the gun would ship right from the warehouse, so they were making Bank shuffling paperwork and never touching the guns.

I was just in PSA the other day checking out micro Daggers. They are owned by JJE Capital, who now also owns DPMS, and a bunch of other companies.

Now if Julian Wilson (co-owner of PSA) could just get in his brother’s ear (Alan Wilson, AG of SC) about helping change the unconstitutional concealed carry laws in SC, we’d be in business haha.

 

[FP1201]

I was just in PSA the other day checking out micro Daggers. They are owned by JJE Capital, who now also owns DPMS, and a bunch of other companies.

Now if Julian Wilson (co-owner of PSA) could just get in his brother’s ear (Alan Wilson, AG of SC) about helping change the unconstitutional concealed carry laws in SC, we’d be in business haha.

I thought South Carolina just recently changed their CCW Laws to Constitutional Carry or some sort of Permit system...I though it odd, that they had no reciprocity agreements with other States, or something to the effect.
"Thing I like best about South Carolina is that Sign at the Border that says Welcome to Georgia."

 

[Parzival]

I thought South Carolina just recently changed their CCW Laws to Constitutional Carry or some sort of Permit system...I though it odd, that they had no reciprocity agreements with other States, or something to the effect.
"Thing I like best about South Carolina is that Sign at the Border that says Welcome to Georgia."

SC is permitless carry now even for nonresidents, but they have a long list of “gun free” zones and places that are unlawful to carry, even with a permit. Having a permit here gets you nothing extra except no NICS when buying from an FFL.

Coming here from Montana, where I could legally open carry in a courthouse…SC is far from constitutional carry.

 

[Catskillkid]

I know.
My brother use to be a FFL.
He had a gun store in Roscoe, NY, "Big Dog Arms"
He did well especially during the summer and in hunting season.
Unfortunately, Covid destroyed his business, he lost all of his transient trade.
C.B.

I bought a few things from that shop. Sad to see it go.

 

[FP1201]

SC is permitless carry now even for nonresidents, but they have a long list of “gun free” zones and places that are unlawful to carry, even with a permit. Having a permit here gets you nothing extra except no NICS when buying from an FFL.

Coming here from Montana, where I could legally open carry in a courthouse…SC is far from constitutional carry.

I had read where things in SC had changed, but was unaware of exactly what was a go or no-go...
We've got to make a pilgrimage out to Montana and Wyoming this Summer, never been that far West and I'm looking forward to it.

 

[Parzival]

I had read where things in SC had changed, but was unaware of exactly what was a go or no-go...
We've got to make a pilgrimage out to Montana and Wyoming this Summer, never been that far West and I'm looking forward to it.

I’d settle for… if they must have gun free zones here (hospitals, churches, etc.), make those with a SC permit exempt. Also, everyone here is freaking out about 18 year olds being able to carry a gun now.

I prefer Wyoming to Montana, but I’d move back west tomorrow if it was completely my choice. If you have questions about visiting Montana, let me know.

I see way too many Bills flags here in SC to be comfortable.

 

[Brawny71]

I had read where things in SC had changed, but was unaware of exactly what was a go or no-go...
We've got to make a pilgrimage out to Montana and Wyoming this Summer, never been that far West and I'm looking forward to it.

Gods Country. Our laws confuse them as much as they do us. They focus on stopping crime and allowing the Freedom to Pursue Happiness as long as you don’t hurt anyone else to ring.

 

[MCGuns]

I’d settle for… if they must have gun free zones here (hospitals, churches, etc.), make those with a SC permit exempt. Also, everyone here is freaking out about 18 year olds being able to carry a gun now.

I prefer Wyoming to Montana, but I’d move back west tomorrow if it was completely my choice. If you have questions about visiting Montana, let me know.

I see way too many Bills flags here in SC to be comfortable.

My Daughter just moved from CA to Montana. My Son and his wife will be following from CA after the 1st. Once my daughter got her license I sent her a new Ruger MK IV 22/45 and a Taurus G3. Something she never could have in CA> I'm wondering what my son is going to want once he gets there

 

[Parzival]

My Daughter just moved from CA to Montana. My Son and his wife will be following from CA after the 1st. Once my daughter got her license I sent her a new Ruger MK IV 22/45 and a Taurus G3. Something she never could have in CA> I'm wondering what my son is going to want once he gets there

They just can’t tell Montanans that they are from California and they’ll be fine haha.

 

[Zerex]

A local gun shop I frequent does 200-400 transfers a month at $50.00, THAT's a LOTTA BREAD!!.............. besides handling GB sales and listing guns on consignment.

This cash income, from gun buyers, is the secret your LGS needs to survive.............like fungus on a tree, sucks you lifeblood away................like GB charging sales tax

 

[Cattafly]

A local gun shop I frequent does 200-400 transfers a month at $50.00, THAT's a LOTTA BREAD!!.............. besides handling GB sales and listing guns on consignment.

This cash income, from gun buyers, is the secret your LGS needs to survive.............like fungus on a tree, sucks you lifeblood away................like GB charging sales tax

Most of those transfers are drop shipped from the same places the gun shop get theirs. Maybe people should contact these shops and see if they can get what they want. Pay me now or pay me later to do the paperwork these other "shippers" don't have to do.

 

[FP1201]

Most of those transfers are drop shipped from the same places the gun shop get theirs. Maybe people should contact these shops and see if they can get what they want. Pay me now or pay me later to do the paperwork these other "shippers" don't have to do.

Can't save money and pay a middle man too.
Advertising a gun at a bargain price then having it drop shipped to a receiving FFL is nothing more than being a 1099 employee.
For new guns, most Dealers have access to the same wholesalers and outside of sales/promotions/incentives AND SHIPPING are paying the same, so you would think someone wanting a particular new gun that they'd contact their FFL for a price and availability, but here's the rub: If you don't buy it from them, it's going to be awkward asking them to receive it from another FFL then transfer it to you...I'm thinking it's going to cost you more than if you'd just supported your Dealer in the first place...I don't know if the Big Box Stores receive/transfer for Customer, if they do I doubt they give a shit whether they got the sale for the gun or not, just collecting a Fee and possibly of selling ammo or accessories when it's being picked up.
Shipping: Wholesalers all differ, but the one we use the most offers free shipping on orders over $500. then $750. on 3+handguns or combinations of guns and products, powder and primers are going to incur a HAZMAT Tag fee which is $25.
The common carriers demand that handguns be sent using premium service (NDA, SDA) so there's $25. or better right there, USPS Medium Flat Rate is like $23. and large another ten bucks....that's how a Hundred Dollar Heritage .22 Revolver ends up being almost $200. by the time you're done.

 

[FP1201]

I don't mind saying that I served, but damn sure NEVER elude to or say that I was in Combat...nothing pisses people that have been there-done that more than some motherfucker claiming he has, and often enough never even served.
Closest action I saw were the Riots in Panama about six months before we invaded Panama to get Noriega, and at that time those on Guard Duty WERE issued Live Ammunition.

 

[Brawny71]

Don’t forget the NYS background check fee the dealer has to pay upfront. You know, the one the FBI does for free but didn’t require as much data entered to get the job done because it was IAW the FOPA.

Speaking from first hand experience; if anyone thinks local shops are paying for their place in the Hamptons, you’re not living in reality. When the NRA settled out of court, my insurance (that I had to really search for anyone to cover me here) went up 16 times what it was before; nope not making it up. That and the added requirements to do business after the last legislation. You local shop is struggling. If they shutter tomorrow, what options do you have then? Who will GunBroker ship to? What about your ammo and Gunsmithing? The average local shop weekly reconsiders staying open. Many only are because in their belief to give legal access and services.

Not trying to preach. I’ve had clients transferring TO NYS from gun friendly Florida charged $125 PER GUN because of the legislation holding ANYONE in the process legally liable. I lost three distributors for the same reason; lost access and supply.

Almost like the process enacted (while ignoring law) has an end result thought out. But the dealers aren’t part of the discussion, consideration, or process.

 

[FP1201]

Don’t forget the NYS background check fee the dealer has to pay upfront. You know, the one the FBI does for free but didn’t require as much data entered to get the job done because it was IAW the FOPA.

Speaking from first hand experience; if anyone thinks local shops are paying for their place in the Hamptons, you’re not living in reality. When the NRA settled out of court, my insurance (that I had to really search for anyone to cover me here) went up 16 times what it was before; nope not making it up. That and the added requirements to do business after the last legislation. You local shop is struggling. If they shutter tomorrow, what options do you have then? Who will GunBroker ship to? What about your ammo and Gunsmithing? The average local shop weekly reconsiders staying open. Many only are because in their belief to give legal access and services.

Not trying to preach. I’ve had clients transferring TO NYS from gun friendly Florida charged $125 PER GUN because of the legislation holding ANYONE in the process legally liable. I lost three distributors for the same reason; lost access and supply.

Almost like the process enacted (while ignoring law) has an end result thought out. But the dealers aren’t part of the discussion, consideration, or process.

100% Right....NY Laws are so arduous and restrictive that I personally know (3) 01 FFL's that do NOT do transfers or sales in NY and if you do buy a gun from them off one of the internet sites, they will only ship it to a FFL that will run the BGC. Oh and for those with C&R/03 FFL's well NYS says that's not good enough and that Gun that your Licenses would get you without a second look anywhere else in the Country? yea, you're going to have to find a NY Licensed Dealer that does do NICS checks done by a vendor in Austin Texas that's contracted to the NYSP to conduct them.

 

[Cattafly]

Don’t forget the NYS background check fee the dealer has to pay upfront. You know, the one the FBI does for free but didn’t require as much data entered to get the job done because it was IAW the FOPA.

Speaking from first hand experience; if anyone thinks local shops are paying for their place in the Hamptons, you’re not living in reality. When the NRA settled out of court, my insurance (that I had to really search for anyone to cover me here) went up 16 times what it was before; nope not making it up. That and the added requirements to do business after the last legislation. You local shop is struggling. If they shutter tomorrow, what options do you have then? Who will GunBroker ship to? What about your ammo and Gunsmithing? The average local shop weekly reconsiders staying open. Many only are because in their belief to give legal access and services.

Not trying to preach. I’ve had clients transferring TO NYS from gun friendly Florida charged $125 PER GUN because of the legislation holding ANYONE in the process legally liable. I lost three distributors for the same reason; lost access and supply.

Almost like the process enacted (while ignoring law) has an end result thought out. But the dealers aren’t part of the discussion, consideration, or process.

You're not preaching but are just telling the facts. Same as the guy who says he just gave you $1500 for a firearm you made 1-2 hundred on. Takes a lot of those sales to keep the insurance, heat, licenses, mortgage, costs of doing business, upkeep or rent paid all the while people think you are getting rich. Most ask themselves why they put themselves through that for something that started as a hobby or something enjoyable to do in retirement.

 

[Keyzard]

A local gun shop I frequent does 200-400 transfers a month at $50.00, THAT's a LOTTA BREAD!!.............. besides handling GB sales and listing guns on consignment.

This cash income, from gun buyers, is the secret your LGS needs to survive.............like fungus on a tree, sucks you lifeblood away................like GB charging sales tax

$50??? WTF, I gag at the $35 my "local" gun shop charges (I say "local" because it's still about a 30 min drive).

 

[Cattafly]

$50??? WTF, I gag at the $35 my "local" gun shop charges (I say "local" because it's still about a 30 min drive).

So, I take it you want to USE them and not support them so you can save a few bucks. Soon there will be nothing to USE.

 

[Keyzard]

So, I take it you want to USE them and not support them so you can save a few bucks. Soon there will be nothing to USE.

Not true at all. I fully support local businesses, and want them to thrive. I DO draw the line at a certain point though. For example, ammo should not be double the price I can get it on-line and shipped to my house (I'm in PA). Also, I have asked this particular shop to match a price I saw on-line even adding the shipping and transfer fee, they declined.

So at some point I have to ask are they just gouging because they can?

 

[Cattafly]

Not true at all. I fully support local businesses, and want them to thrive. I DO draw the line at a certain point though. For example, ammo should not be double the price I can get it on-line and shipped to my house (I'm in PA). Also, I have asked this particular shop to match a price I saw on-line even adding the shipping and transfer fee, they declined.

So at some point I have to ask are they just gouging because they can?

The problem is online retailers use giant wholesalers or direct buying to sell products and the local FFL's can't operate like them. I asked a good friend of mine, an FFL, if he could get me a gun at the same price I see on the internet. He showed me one of his supplier web pages for that particular gun and his price was higher than they were selling it for. Local FFL's are not Cabelas or Walmarts and the like who can buy direct being they are part of huge buyers groups.
So, you can call it gouging but I call it staying in business.

 

[Parzival]

One LGS has a Gen6 Glock 19 with a $850 price tag on it. Another sells 9mm for $22/box.

I like supporting the local shop but I’m not overpaying by that much. A G19 is $650 at Academy and 9mm is $11. LGS wonders why no one shops there, has to get closer in price than that.

My transfer FFL works from home, $20 transfers and will do special orders. Fill out 4473, he takes a copy of my CWP, hand over $20, walk out the door. I’m there less than 5 minutes.

Same LGS as above, charges $50 per transfer. I realize he has more overhead with the shop but I’m still there the same five minutes, his process is still the same as the $20 FFL.

 

[Keyzard]

The problem is online retailers use giant wholesalers or direct buying to sell products and the local FFL's can't operate like them. I asked a good friend of mine, an FFL, if he could get me a gun at the same price I see on the internet. He showed me one of his supplier web pages for that particular gun and his price was higher than they were selling it for. Local FFL's are not Cabelas or Walmarts and the like who can buy direct being they are part of huge buyers groups.
So, you can call it gouging but I call it staying in business.

So did you buy it from him? Of did you order it on-line?

I'm not unfamiliar with the concept of volume and scale. I used to be part owner of a computer consulting firm with a small retail presence in the Buffalo area. We were doing fine until Dell came along. There was no way we could compete with their prices. We eventually had to shut down.
You either adapt, if possible, or go out of business as it is no longer possible to be profitable.

Supporting your LGS is noble, and if you have the disposable income to pay double what you can get it for somewhere else, go for it. I have to balance my hobbies with keeping a roof over my head and caring for my family.

 

[Cattafly]

So did you buy it from him? Of did you order it on-line?

I'm not unfamiliar with the concept of volume and scale. I used to be part owner of a computer consulting firm with a small retail presence in the Buffalo area. We were doing fine until Dell came along. There was no way we could compete with their prices. We eventually had to shut down.
You either adapt, if possible, or go out of business as it is no longer possible to be profitable.

Supporting your LGS is noble, and if you have the disposable income to pay double what you can get it for somewhere else, go for it. I have to balance my hobbies with keeping a roof over my head and caring for my family.

I waited till his wholesaler ran a sale then bought from him. Was about the same price but had to wait quite a while. At my age the need overruled the want.

What happens when all the small shops shut down and you could really use something in the spur of the moment? Guess there is always Walmart to get clay birds and the like if there is one nearby. Besides small shops are much friendlier with a better atmosphere.

 

[Cattafly]

One LGS has a Gen6 Glock 19 with a $850 price tag on it. Another sells 9mm for $22/box.

I like supporting the local shop but I’m not overpaying by that much. A G19 is $650 at Academy and 9mm is $11. LGS wonders why no one shops there, has to get closer in price than that.

My transfer FFL works from home, $20 transfers and will do special orders. Fill out 4473, he takes a copy of my CWP, hand over $20, walk out the door. I’m there less than 5 minutes.

Same LGS as above, charges $50 per transfer. I realize he has more overhead with the shop but I’m still there the same five minutes, his process is still the same as the $20 FFL.

The five minutes you talk about is only what you see and don't necessarily apply to all people. Federal and state forms to fill out, storing them so when the ATF comes a calling you are organized as they will fine you for the smallest paperwork error. Not as easy as the five minutes you speak of. It's always easier on the other side of the counter, right?

 

[pshift]

My guy charges $75. Maybe next time, I will use an out of state FFL where I have my non-resident permit and purchase necessary items there instead. I will have to check if the out of state FFLs will allow that (as long as its legal in NYS, that is).

 

[Vicarious]

Man, im lucky my guy only charges a 20! I even give him a generous tip.

 

[Parzival]

The five minutes you talk about is only what you see and don't necessarily apply to all people. Federal and state forms to fill out, storing them so when the ATF comes a calling you are organized as they will fine you for the smallest paperwork error. Not as easy as the five minutes you speak of. It's always easier on the other side of the counter, right?

I’ve been on the other side of the counter, it’s not hard. The FFL I worked for went with the more for less model. Cheaper transfers got customers in the door, when people picked up guns, they bought lights, dots, holsters and ammo.

Costco hotdog combo for $1.50 motto.

We will just have to agree to disagree.

 

[Cattafly]

I’ve been on the other side of the counter, it’s not hard. The FFL I worked for went with the more for less model. Cheaper transfers got customers in the door, when people picked up guns, they bought lights, dots, holsters and ammo.

Costco hotdog combo for $1.50 motto.

We will just have to agree to disagree.

We can agree to disagree but am wondering if you were a strictly salesperson and only had to deal with the sale.

 

[Brawny71]

One LGS has a Gen6 Glock 19 with a $850 price tag on it. Another sells 9mm for $22/box.

I like supporting the local shop but I’m not overpaying by that much. A G19 is $650 at Academy and 9mm is $11. LGS wonders why no one shops there, has to get closer in price than that.

My transfer FFL works from home, $20 transfers and will do special orders. Fill out 4473, he takes a copy of my CWP, hand over $20, walk out the door. I’m there less than 5 minutes.

Same LGS as above, charges $50 per transfer. I realize he has more overhead with the shop but I’m still there the same five minutes, his process is still the same as the $20 FFL.

Have you made the local an offer?