Acer-m14
.950 JDJ
put this here , think it could also apply to rifle shooting too ..
For intermediate shooters, DRY FIRE DOES NOT FIX RECOIL ANTICIPATION
- Thread starter Acer-m14
- Start date
I don't agree with this guy's point.
While dry firing doesn't totally negate recoil flinching, it can, and does, help some people.
This particular student happened to flinch when he thought he was about to fire live rounds...that doesn't mean every other students would've made the same mistake.
Dry firing allows you to practice the fundamentals (breathing, natural point of aim, trigger manipulation)...it gets you 50% of the way there. You, as the individual, still need to fix yourself mentally to cover the remaining 50% and put accurate rounds on target (meaning without flinching).
But hey...every tactical instructor wants to be unique nowadays, so they'll preach what they think is "right."
While dry firing doesn't totally negate recoil flinching, it can, and does, help some people.
This particular student happened to flinch when he thought he was about to fire live rounds...that doesn't mean every other students would've made the same mistake.
Dry firing allows you to practice the fundamentals (breathing, natural point of aim, trigger manipulation)...it gets you 50% of the way there. You, as the individual, still need to fix yourself mentally to cover the remaining 50% and put accurate rounds on target (meaning without flinching).
But hey...every tactical instructor wants to be unique nowadays, so they'll preach what they think is "right."
subsonic
.44 mag
I think this so-called instructor is also playing fast and loose with safety by racking the slide of a loaded gun for that his student is aiming, coming within a fraction of an inch of muzzling at least his right hand while his student with poor trigger discipline is holding onto it.
Even if he feels confident of his safety from practice (and he shouldn’t), he is modeling very poor behavior for his students. I shudder to think of one of them going on to fumble with a loaded gun while their wife or kid is holding it. Their “expert trainer” is teaching them this is normal and acceptable.
Even if he feels confident of his safety from practice (and he shouldn’t), he is modeling very poor behavior for his students. I shudder to think of one of them going on to fumble with a loaded gun while their wife or kid is holding it. Their “expert trainer” is teaching them this is normal and acceptable.
wizrd
6.5 Creedmoor
Your fingers, or hand anywhere near the muzzle of a loaded gun is a no-no. Ever rest the barrel / muzzle on a sandbag and have the muzzle blast rip the bag? Flesh much softer - just saying. Press check? with finger next to the muzzle, - another no-no. A well known professional shooter lost the tip of an index finger doing a press check quite a while back. Finger was not over the muzzle - just besides it.
BDinPutnam
.475 A&M Magnum
I noticed that too and immediately gave up on the video.
C3D
.308 Win
Ummm, no. Dry firing helps eliminate flinch and develop trigger control. This guy can take his video and shove it.
subsonic
.44 mag
A bunch of people commenting on the video remark on him having all the students downrange of the muzzle in close quarters; a couple also mention the two hands on the gun. I also think the shooters downrange is unnecessary and a serious concern, but not as big of a one as him putting his hands on the gun and in particular a hand forward of and muzzle-adjacent while he's racking the slide of a loaded gun held by another shooter with poor trigger discipline (whom he repeatedly instructs to "index" his finger).
Worse yet, he has an attitude. To one commenter on the downrange issue, he writes "LOL the things people choose to comment on. I would be very interested in seeing your personal performance. I have a pretty good idea where your at on things based on how you addressed this issue."
It's a shame. This guy does have other stuff to offer, but he's teaching people to defend themselves with firearms. If you're not practicing firearm safety, all you are doing in endangering your students and teaching them to endanger themselves and others by spreading unsafe practices and a cavalier attitude toward safety. And he has more fanboys joining him in jumping on the critics on his page than voices of reason; along with a lot of people saying "great idea, I'll try this." So the net effect is he is setting up people to blow bits of their hands off, or worse.
Sad and irresponsible. And people pay this guy money. It would take some balls but I would hope that if I found myself in this situation I would speak up and walk out. Fortunately I've never had an instructor like this. Maybe it's my prejudice against sleeve tats, lol.
Worse yet, he has an attitude. To one commenter on the downrange issue, he writes "LOL the things people choose to comment on. I would be very interested in seeing your personal performance. I have a pretty good idea where your at on things based on how you addressed this issue."
It's a shame. This guy does have other stuff to offer, but he's teaching people to defend themselves with firearms. If you're not practicing firearm safety, all you are doing in endangering your students and teaching them to endanger themselves and others by spreading unsafe practices and a cavalier attitude toward safety. And he has more fanboys joining him in jumping on the critics on his page than voices of reason; along with a lot of people saying "great idea, I'll try this." So the net effect is he is setting up people to blow bits of their hands off, or worse.
Sad and irresponsible. And people pay this guy money. It would take some balls but I would hope that if I found myself in this situation I would speak up and walk out. Fortunately I've never had an instructor like this. Maybe it's my prejudice against sleeve tats, lol.
I think the instructor is a dink.
I am going to get some pants with knee pads and put a bunch of shit on my gun belt and posistion my holster on my thigh. Then get a mic for my earmuffs and some cool sunglasses.
After all that I am going to charge $100 for pistol training and do dumb shit with guns.
I am going to get rich as fuck with this method.
I am going to get some pants with knee pads and put a bunch of shit on my gun belt and posistion my holster on my thigh. Then get a mic for my earmuffs and some cool sunglasses.
After all that I am going to charge $100 for pistol training and do dumb shit with guns.
I am going to get rich as fuck with this method.
This would be a better and safer drill.
Ball-and-Dummy Drill - Texas Pistol Academy
BALL-AND-DUMMY DRILL
September 26, 2011
Texas Pistol and Rifle Academy
Stoney’s blog 09/26/2011
One of the biggest problems that I see most shooters face is “jerking the trigger.” Inevitably, every shooter that I have ever worked with has faced this problem at some point in their shooting career. Usually, this problem occurs early on with a new shooter but, if you haven’t been to the range for a while, this problem can happen even to the best of us. If you are looking for a drill to specifically address this problem, try the “ball-and-dummy” Drill.
Here are the specifics:
Teaches: flinch control and follow through during live fire.
Requires: 1 dummy round and works best with shooting partner, but can be done alone.
Principle: If the hammer falls on an empty chamber during slow-fire shooting, your gun shouldn’t “flinch” or “move” when the trigger is depressed. The sights should stay aligned and on target, and the eye still clearly focused on the front sight.
If the gun does dip (flinch or jump), you’re anticipating the recoil.
Procedure: Have your shooting partner load your magazine for you, mixing live rounds with dummy rounds, or for a revolver, leave one or more chambers empty. Have your partner take up a position behind you to watch and coach you. Take aim on the target and attempt to fire the weapon. When you fire the gun, concentrate on keeping the gun steady, sights on target, no matter what happens. When the trigger is engaged on the dummy round or empty chamber, you and your partner will visually see if you flinched or jerked the trigger in anticipation of the gun firing.
The gun won’t budge or flinch if you are doing the drill correctly. If you’re not doing well, keep up with the drill until you are. Keep your sights aligned and on target while you release the trigger just enough to reengage the sear.
If you do not have a shooting partner, you can do this yourself by loading several magazines and mixing them up, or loading a magazine with your eyes closed, or rotating the cylinder with your eyes shut before closing it.
Also known as: cap-and-ball drill, dummy round drill.
“Shooting makes better people, period.”
Phil Stone
Tactical Instructor
Texas Pistol and Rifle Academy
Ball-and-Dummy Drill - Texas Pistol Academy
BALL-AND-DUMMY DRILL
September 26, 2011
Texas Pistol and Rifle Academy
Stoney’s blog 09/26/2011
One of the biggest problems that I see most shooters face is “jerking the trigger.” Inevitably, every shooter that I have ever worked with has faced this problem at some point in their shooting career. Usually, this problem occurs early on with a new shooter but, if you haven’t been to the range for a while, this problem can happen even to the best of us. If you are looking for a drill to specifically address this problem, try the “ball-and-dummy” Drill.
Here are the specifics:
Teaches: flinch control and follow through during live fire.
Requires: 1 dummy round and works best with shooting partner, but can be done alone.
Principle: If the hammer falls on an empty chamber during slow-fire shooting, your gun shouldn’t “flinch” or “move” when the trigger is depressed. The sights should stay aligned and on target, and the eye still clearly focused on the front sight.
If the gun does dip (flinch or jump), you’re anticipating the recoil.
Procedure: Have your shooting partner load your magazine for you, mixing live rounds with dummy rounds, or for a revolver, leave one or more chambers empty. Have your partner take up a position behind you to watch and coach you. Take aim on the target and attempt to fire the weapon. When you fire the gun, concentrate on keeping the gun steady, sights on target, no matter what happens. When the trigger is engaged on the dummy round or empty chamber, you and your partner will visually see if you flinched or jerked the trigger in anticipation of the gun firing.
The gun won’t budge or flinch if you are doing the drill correctly. If you’re not doing well, keep up with the drill until you are. Keep your sights aligned and on target while you release the trigger just enough to reengage the sear.
If you do not have a shooting partner, you can do this yourself by loading several magazines and mixing them up, or loading a magazine with your eyes closed, or rotating the cylinder with your eyes shut before closing it.
Also known as: cap-and-ball drill, dummy round drill.
“Shooting makes better people, period.”
Phil Stone
Tactical Instructor
Texas Pistol and Rifle Academy
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Sneezy
6.5 Creedmoor
I disagree! The safety concerns are huge though. This guy broke so many rules it's not funny. He's a fucking moron. Everyone else already pointed out what he did wrong.
oc shooter
.223 Rem
while I agree that there are a lot of safety issues in the video I'm not for condemning him out of hand we don't know if this is what he does on a regular basis or if it's just this video. could be he's new to making video's and he wasn't paying attention to what was going on. this in no way exonerates the safety thing but maybe should be a consideration
subsonic
.44 mag
I don't think it's out of hand. This was just a couple weeks ago; he runs an extremely tacticool training business "ASSAULT DYNAMICS - COMBAT TACTICS," holds himself out as a professional and takes money to train people to do things that are in his opinion the correct way.
There were several people who called him out for safety in the comments of that video, and he had the opportunity to be humble, take the criticism, and add a note or take the video down and promise to do better, but instead he ignored most of them and chose one relatively inexperienced woman in the comments to savage, mock, and attack, and enabling others to pile onto her.
No benefit of the doubt from me whatsoever. This guy needs to be called out until he changes or quits. This is a menace in the industry, it puts people in real danger and makes gun owners look bad because these types really are idiots, and might end up paying a dear price for it some day.
btw, I'm surprised you'd say, "could be he's new to making video's and he wasn't paying attention to what was going on." Neither of those are excuses at all. We hold total noobs to always pay attention to what's going on with guns and safety. This guy is supposed to be a professional trainer. What he's doing in this video is disqualifying.
Sneezy
6.5 Creedmoor
Simply no excuse for not paying attention to what's going on when it comes to guns and safety.
oc shooter
.223 Rem
Subsonic Sneezy u are both right no excuse what so ever
gun_slinger_boy
.338 Win Mag
So was this guy. Who you were or who you are doesn't mean jack. Your actions speak for themselves.
subsonic
.44 mag
Great video, I love at 22:17, slurring, "Bro, I am a fucking SWAT OPERATOR! I run SWAT!"
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Notwithstanding the safety issues, he’s right. I saw a range safety officer in Florida do a similar drill with a spent casing on the top of the slide. He made her dry fire until she could do it without knocking the casing over.
The minute he loaded the gun she knocked the casing off before the trigger was fully pressed and the round went off.
The minute he loaded the gun she knocked the casing off before the trigger was fully pressed and the round went off.
gun_slinger_boy
.338 Win Mag
As I understood it that exercise is to improve technique and not flinch control. It is to learn how not to jerk the trigger and keep the gun flat and steady. If the person is intimidated by the report/recoil there is no number of times this exercise can be done that will help flinch. They simply have to get comfortable with shooting the gun. Or are we calling pulling shots flinching?
Acer-m14
.950 JDJ
with me its not the Recoil .. its that damn boom .. glad my hearing is getting bad .,. i'm shooting better now LOL ..
i flinch from the booom .. LOL
what @nortatoga posted help me more ..
but have to say when hunting ... its a non issue .. only at the range on paper ..
you should have seen it last yr .. i'm loading up my muzzle loader and bud fires his 12ga .. i think i got got 2 grams of BP in it , the rest went all over . LOL
i flinch from the booom .. LOL
what @nortatoga posted help me more ..
but have to say when hunting ... its a non issue .. only at the range on paper ..
you should have seen it last yr .. i'm loading up my muzzle loader and bud fires his 12ga .. i think i got got 2 grams of BP in it , the rest went all over . LOL
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Probably flinching or recoil anticipation. I don’t know but I saw the case drop before it went off when previously she was holding the case steady after a complete pull. Knowing live rounds are in there affect some people.
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spat
.700 Nitro Express
Best way I have found to deal with both problems (flinch, and pulling the shot) is to make the shooter press the trigger slowly enough that they don't do it.
Then keep shooting like that. Eventually slowly enough will get quicker and quicker.
Then keep shooting like that. Eventually slowly enough will get quicker and quicker.
Robin
.475 A&M Magnum
Practice with a pellet pistol. It's cheap and makes all your bad tendencies readily apparent.
Robin
Robin
subsonic
.44 mag
Do you not use proper ear protection at the range? That would explain both the "damn boom" and your hearing getting bad. I guess the damage is done, but you probably want to protect what you have left in your golden years.