For the First Time in My Life (possibility of having to use lethal force to defend my family and possibly my country)

[Criticalt]

This guy is a state instructor. Not a road cop. You do what you want. You and you alone will face the music.

I can only say that I personally have been told by several lawyers, a DA an assistant DA andca long time local judge....and multiple certified instructors over 3 decades that you instructor is incorrect.
You have ZERO duty to retreat from your home....zero. The floor that you are on is about the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
During my PP class the long time NYS and NRA certified instructor told us, and I quote, "If you fuck with my wife while we are walking down the street, I will fucking kill you."
I laughed out loud.
He was also an ex cop....but a complete idiot with obvious poor advice.

 

[Criticalt]

That's not what was said at all. Equal force. I already addressed them having a gun previously. I said they better have one or another deadly weapon. Someone opening your door and just walking in does not meet the justification.

It absolutely 100% does.
Use your own advice and look into presedent and case law in NYS.
This is incorrect info that I have personal expierience with in NYS.
The county you live in may try to hem you up but NYS law does not require the use of a weapon to use DPF.....especially in the home.

 

[Criticalt]

Then you too do not understand A35 very well. It should have been clear as day to anyone who does.

Seriously bro, you are the one who doesnt get it. You are adding your own words and thoughts into the law.
Words have meanings and an average lawyer will hold the court to the words in the law, not your interpretation.
Who are you? RBGs replacement?

 

[Criticalt]

I would die to see someone’s face as they are being arraigned and hearing the charges read who thought they understood the law quite well. It’s always a good idea to take instruction from the pro’s. There is always more to be learned. Otherwise we could close all schools down and everyone could just read online. Just as I said to @Darth I'm sure you read it and have a functioning brain. But the people who want to put you away for life know it much better and know it much deeper and can out game you 100 ways from Sunday.

Literally the dumbest thing ive heard on the internet. Please stop trying to give advice.
I personally challenge your "pro" to an article 35 "law challenge" the guy doesnt know his ass.
The people who want to put me away DO NOT know shit more than I do about the words printed in the law.
They may TRY to interpret the law differently but they WILL LOSE, im smarter than them and my lawyer is smarter than me.
You cannot just add your own insight into a law....it just doest work.
Show me some cases in NYS where someone is in jail for following article 35 to a T......the absolute words from the law, not kind of.

Heres just ONE local story Ive told before....real short version.
A known drug dealer had his door kicked in by 2 guys looking to rob him.
He shot both with a shotgun, killing one by shooting him in the back.
The shooter WAS NOT arrested or charged......why, article 35.
The shooter had an arrest recird but no felonies so was allowed to own the shotgun.
I have more.....lets hear your stories where people are in jail for STRICTLY following article 35......im ready.

 

[Carlos Hathcock]

So what’s your move? There are dozens of people backing up the rioters. They are obviously looking for a fight and have nothing to loose.

I don't give a shit about dozens of rioters, but they do have something to lose. An ear, an eye, or maybe more. I will nit bend to their intimidation. I will not live in fear of their bullshit. I will give them what they want if they ask for it.

 

[Doc8404]

I would die to see someone’s face as they are being arraigned and hearing the charges read who thought they understood the law quite well. It’s always a good idea to take instruction from the pro’s. There is always more to be learned. Otherwise we could close all schools down and everyone could just read online. Just as I said to @Darth I'm sure you read it and have a functioning brain. But the people who want to put you away for life know it much better and know it much deeper and can out game you 100 ways from Sunday.

yes THEY know it much better than any of us.
“they” does not include LEOs.

 

[Doc8404]

Again, not to say what I or anyone would or should do! But the fine line between confrontation and a life/death threat is a hairs width thin during the encounter, but a yard wide once prosecutors and lawyers have it in a courtroom.

That said... All those posts (above) represent a lot of thinking... And too much thinking when in a deadly confrontation will get you killed! It's simple really...

Are you being threatened? Are you afraid this threat is trying to violently cause you harm... and is that harm life threatening? A fraction of a second to decide, and ACT! Not stop and look around for the exit, or ask that the perpetrator PLEASE don't do what they're about to do! You act or you die...

But wait, what about that article 35? What did it say... OMG, what's my lawyers #... I don't want to have a problem... Wait... Where'd the guy go, oh shit, he's behind me... What the fuck was that... oh wait, why is my leg wet? OMG, it's not wet, it's blood, I didn't see that, what he do? Wait... Wait... Wait... Don't! NOoooo... Shit, fuck, motherfucker... Stooooooppp!

Yeah, read that a few fucking times!

The criminal isn't stopping to worry about what's gonna happen next! The criminal is going to ACT!

The person who ACTS has a distinct and severe advantage over the person "reacting" period!

But sure, take that split second to be distracted and think about what trouble you're trying to avoid, except the immediate problem in front of you!

That all...

wait. So during a situation I shouldn’t think about @Chevusa ‘s posts and ask if they know him?
Maybe I should include him in my immediate statement to the LEOs.

 

[Criticalt]

I believe I agee with Geraldo Rivera for the first time.
While talking about the punks harrasing patrons at restaurants, Geraldo said...."This is harrasment and maybe even assault, knowing my background I know what I would do. Then I would deal with the repercussions from the local police and DA."
Meaning, id kick their asses.
I agree with Geraldo 100%

 

[holdover]

Had a few beers with my neighbor, who was assaulted last month. He had his 15 year old daughter with him at the time. He told me lost consciousness for about 30 seconds . He now carrys a shotgun in his truck , He said he doesn't give a shit about any laws anymore. He said the police officer told him to hit the gas if it ever happened again and not to worry about it.

 

[GOPerfect]

In regards to this Article 35 discussion....

Holy shit, the amount of wrong and blatantly incorrect statements in this thread are making me near sick.

I think some people really need to do some serious reading and research. I would also suggest, some should stop listening to some of their "experts".

 

[Doc8404]

In regards to this Article 35 discussion....

Holy shit, the amount of wrong and blatantly incorrect statements in this thread are making me near sick.

I think some people really need to do some serious reading and research. I would also suggest, some should stop listening to some of their "experts".

amen.

 

[BuffNiag]

I don't give a shit about dozens of rioters, but they do have something to lose. An ear, an eye, or maybe more. I will nit bend to their intimidation. I will not live in fear of their bullshit. I will give them what they want if they ask for it.

This is just keyboard warrior stuff. Im not trying to be snarky. I’m looking for an honest answer on what you would do when out with SO in situation posted earlier.

 

[GOPerfect]

This is just keyboard warrior stuff. Im not trying to be snarky. I’m looking for an honest answer on what you would do when out with SO in situation posted earlier.

I can and will give the most honest answer that I can...

I have no idea what I would do in certain situations. I know what I think I would do, not sure what the reality would actually be though.

In the Army, as many here know, we train for all types of situations; when the shit gets real, not all training scenarios work.

In the different police academy's that I have gone through, I have received some great training, not sure how well it would all work when in a real situation.

I train and I practice my skills on a regular basis, I train with my mind, my body; I train with forearms, I train and practice my driving skills. Training and real is completely different. When staring down an enemy or a foe that wants to do me harm, I hope any and all of my training would come into play, but until the situation is real, no one really knows.

I hear people all of the time saying they could easily take a life, no one knows until they actually do.

Lots of warriors of the keyboards exist.

 

[Chevusa]

yes THEY know it much better than any of us.
“they” does not include LEOs.

You'd be surprised. Either way, will it matter if your charges came from a cop or a DA? What would the difference be in your sentencing? None.

 

[Doc8404]

You'd be surprised. Either way, will it matter if your charges came from a cop or a DA? What would the difference be in your sentencing? None.

Are you joking?
the cop doesn’t decide your fate.

 

[Chevusa]

Again, not to say what I or anyone would or should do! But the fine line between confrontation and a life/death threat is a hairs width thin during the encounter, but a yard wide once prosecutors and lawyers have it in a courtroom.

That said... All those posts (above) represent a lot of thinking... And too much thinking when in a deadly confrontation will get you killed! It's simple really...

Are you being threatened? Are you afraid this threat is trying to violently cause you harm... and is that harm life threatening? A fraction of a second to decide, and ACT! Not stop and look around for the exit, or ask that the perpetrator PLEASE don't do what they're about to do! You act or you die...

But wait, what about that article 35? What did it say... OMG, what's my lawyers #... I don't want to have a problem... Wait... Where'd the guy go, oh shit, he's behind me... What the fuck was that... oh wait, why is my leg wet? OMG, it's not wet, it's blood, I didn't see that, what he do? Wait... Wait... Wait... Don't! NOoooo... Shit, fuck, motherfucker... Stooooooppp!

Yeah, read that a few fucking times!

The criminal isn't stopping to worry about what's gonna happen next! The criminal is going to ACT!

The person who ACTS has a distinct and severe advantage over the person "reacting" period!

But sure, take that split second to be distracted and think about what trouble you're trying to avoid, except the immediate problem in front of you!

That all...

The problem is in that split second you had to decide, the DA's office will have unlimited time to decide if you acted properly. That is why you must know the law throughly. It must be second nature. You must know exactly what you can and cannot do. Know it so well that you don't even have to think about it. Reading it on google one time is not going to cut it. Not every case will be so clear cut. Someone trying to rob you with a pocket knife will not be treated to same as someone who has you backed into a corner with a machete. In one case you'll be in trouble for not running away and in the other you couldn't run away. There are just too many factors to make concrete statements online. All you can do it be mentally prepared.

 

[dwa12479]

You'd be surprised. Either way, will it matter if your charges came from a cop or a DA? What would the difference be in your sentencing? None.

Cops can't bring felony charges, only a DA or Grand Jury.

 

[Chevusa]

Are you joking?
the cop doesn’t decide your fate.

Who said they did? I am taking about CHARGES. Go back and re-read. The CHARGE is the same regardless of who is comes from.

 

[dwa12479]

Who said they did? I am taking about CHARGES. Go back and re-read. The CHARGE is the same regardless of who is comes from.

Cops make reports, criminal charges are brought by the DA or Grand Jury.

 

[1075tech]

All of this conversation is assuming that the police are even called or respond. There is a large swamp across the street from my house. There is 100 acres of bear and coyote populated land behind my house.

 

[Chevusa]

Cops make reports, criminal charges are brought by the DA or Grand Jury.

And based on their understanding of the law they will either arrest or not. They will trigger further action or not. They will get the ball rolling for you. Not sure what any of this has to do with the subject of knowing the laws. Your argument is you don't need to know them because the cops don't either and don't charge you? Good luck.

 

[dwa12479]

And based on their understanding of the law they will either arrest or not. They will trigger further action or not. They will get the ball rolling for you. Not sure what any of this has to do with the subject of knowing the laws. Your argument is you don't need to know them because the cops don't either and don't charge you? Good luck.

They arrest, but don't get to decide if or what charges are brought. And my reply was specific to your blatantly incorrect argument about the difference in sentencing if charges are from a cop or a DA. You're attempting to admonish many people here with your supposed vast knowledge of A35 and the law, but have demonstrated an obvious misunderstanding of the way the system works. So just stop already.

 

[technicalgadget]

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations; we fall to the level of our training."

-Archilochus

 

[Chevusa]

They arrest, but don't get to decide if or what charges are brought. And my reply was specific to your blatantly incorrect argument about the difference in sentencing if charges are from a cop or a DA. You're attempting to admonish many people here with your supposed vast knowledge of A35 and the law, but have demonstrated an obvious misunderstanding of the way the system works. So just stop already.

Negative. Slow down and read. I said there is no difference. The charge is the charge is the charge. It's irrelevant who lodged it. The outcome will be the same.

 

[spat]

In NY you are guilty until proven innocent.

If you shoot someone in self defense you can count on having serious legal trouble if your case isnt air tight.

For self defense in general that's true. For most (maybe all) jurisdictions in the US.

It's an affirmative defense, which means you must admit to a crime to invoke it.

That means you have admitted that what you did would be a crime if it wasn’t done in self defense. It is then the defenses responsibility to prove self defense.

So, you *are* considered guilty until you can prove innocence.




The DA just needs to prove you shot the guy, if you don't offer any evidence of self defense then you go to prison. In order to offer evidence of self defense you have to admit that you shot the guy. At that point the DA doesn’t have to prove anything, he just needs to refute your self defense claim.

 

[Chevusa]

A self defense kill is a homicide. An investigation will determine if it was a justifiable or unjustifiable homicide.

 

[holdover]

Lots of grey area in the law. A lot of people believe they can invoke ""fear for my life"" while not understanding the legal concept of it. People get in trouble because they misunderstand the law. You can be justified in one second and unjustified in the next. That fast.

You see protestors on both sides open carrying weapons , but have no idea that they are great legal and mortal jeopardy during a physical assault .

the fog of war is present at these events , and things happen quickly . I would be very very reluctant to carry a weapon into a counter protest.

The thing about the grey area is that it can cause you to hesitate ,which can be fatal ,or criminal if you fire.

 

[Chevusa]

Lots of grey area in the law. A lot of people believe they can invoke ""fear for my life"" while not understanding the legal concept of it. People get in trouble because they misunderstand the law. You can be justified in one second and unjustified in the next. That fast.

You see protestors on both sides open carrying weapons , but have no idea that they are great legal and mortal jeopardy during a physical assault .

the fog of war is present at these events , and things happen quickly . I would be very very reluctant to carry a weapon into a counter protest.

The thing about the grey area is that it can cause you to hesitate ,which can be fatal ,or criminal if you fire.

Exactly. People seem to have a scenario in their heads and it plays out perfect and is clear cut in their minds. They think they read A35 online one time and they are experts at knowing when to shoot and when not to.

You bring up a good point. You can be justified, then not, then are again, then not... All of this will be looked at by people who have unlimited time and know exponentially more about the law and it's application than you do. The best advice is to avoid the situation and if the situation finds you... RUN!

 

[Criticalt]

The problem is in that split second you had to decide, the DA's office will have unlimited time to decide if you acted properly. That is why you must know the law throughly. It must be second nature. You must know exactly what you can and cannot do. Know it so well that you don't even have to think about it. Reading it on google one time is not going to cut it. Not every case will be so clear cut. Someone trying to rob you with a pocket knife will not be treated to same as someone who has you backed into a corner with a machete. In one case you'll be in trouble for not running away and in the other you couldn't run away. There are just too many factors to make concrete statements online. All you can do it be mentally prepared.

Wrong...
A small knife and a machete are IDENTICAL according to NYS article 35. I think you need to re-read the law.
You should really learn it well.
A "weapon" of any size is a game changer even in NYS.
Someone comes at me with a big nail im shooting them dead.....and be home for dinner.

 

[Chevusa]

Wrong...
A small knife and a machete are IDENTICAL according to NYS article 35. I think you need to re-read the law.
You should really learn it well.
A "weapon" of any size is a game changer even in NYS.
Someone comes at me with a big nail im shooting them dead.....and be home for dinner.

Once again, not reading carefully. In one situation I described a situation where it would be reasonable to run way. In the other I described a situation where you are trapped.

Nice to know that YOU will have control over the police/DA/Grand Jury in this situation.

Like I said earlier, lots of people have perfect scenarios in their heads. It's all daydreaming however. It's never going to happen like you think it is.