Glad I didn't learn the hard way

[Justincase]

So I've been competingin a weekly steel target league and i took my M9A3 for the first time this week. I had only shot it once before at the range. So i line up for my first round, timer beeps, i draw, pull... Nothing. Fuck. Safety is on. I'd swear i had it off but nevertheless it cost me alot of time.

Next round. Line up, beeper, pull trigger, hammer drops... Nothing. Pull trigger again... Nothing. Tap, rack, nothing. FUCK! Turned out to be a bad primer. I've never experienced one before. But even after ejecting that round, somehow the safety engaged when i racked the slide. I don't think the A3 does that automatically, but it's on the slide and i hate it there. Couldn't imagine encountering this during an actual life or death scenario. Even still, i was pretty frazzled and not very efficient. Learned alot from those two situations. One, be familiar with your gun. Two, safeties are frigging useless and three, i would never carry anything other than a striker fired safety free gun If my life would eventually depend on it.

 

[Calculon]

My M&P9 originally came with the thumb safety and at the time I was more comfortable with that as it was my first pistol. Took 2 training classes and couldn't thumb the safety off effectively 100% of the time and actually flipped it back on a couple times with a loose grip under recoil. Removed it and will never carry a pistol in training or for SD with a thumb safety again. I love my Kimber 1911 and would like to carry it on occasion but don't want to introduce the potential failure point.

 

[thegatman]

Glock would solve the problem.

 

[Justincase]

Glock would solve the problem.

Exactly. I typically use my VP9 or my G43 but it was a two pistol course this week.

 

[Podmonkey]

That's why most people poo poo slide mounted safeties. This is a known issue with the Berretta 92 series, it will require training and experience to avoid it. Or you can convert the safety to a decocker only which eliminates the problem altogether.

 

[Bananabandit]

Safeties? What are those?

 

[Podmonkey]

Safeties? What are those?

Them are those dohickies what don't belong on DA/SA guns.

 

[Bananabandit]

Them are those dohickies what don't belong on DA/SA guns.

I like you. Whats your name?

 

[Justincase]

That's why most people poo poo slide mounted safeties. This is a known issue with the Berretta 92 series, it will require training and experience to avoid it. Or you can convert the safety to a decocker only which eliminates the problem altogether.

I saw that kit, but thought why the heck would i need that? Now i know.

 

[Podmonkey]

I saw that kit, but thought why the heck would i need that? Now i know.

How much do they cost?

 

[Podmonkey]

I like you. Whats your name?

Harmonica.

 

[Justincase]

How much do they cost?

I think it was about $60 or so

 

[Podmonkey]

I think it was about $60 or so

Well worth it if you ask me then.
I am ardently opposed to manual safeties on DA/SA guns. Defeats the whole purpose of the action.

 

[Calculon]

They are $55 - well worth the upgrade and easy to install - my bro did one with no special tools just a couple punches and a brad (nail).

Beretta M9 | 92/96 G Conversion Kit | Beretta USA

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

So a safety isn't and issue. Just one that doesn't also decock.

 

[Podmonkey]

So a safety isn't and issue. Just one that doesn't also decock.

Huh?
What we don't want is any kind of manual safety on a DA/SA. But we do need a decocker because the initial trigger pull is the safety, like on a DA revolver. We need a safe way to get back to condition 2 after firing.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

Huh?
What we don't want is any kind of manual safety on a DA/SA. But we do need a decocker because the initial trigger pull is the safety, like on a DA revolver. We need a safe way to get back to condition 2 after firing.

Just like I said. Not a safety like on a 1911 but like a safety on a makarov that is also a decocker.

 

[Podmonkey]

Just like I said. Not a safety like on a 1911 but like a safety on a makarov that is also a decocker.

Like I said, the safety position is redundant and safeties mounted on the slide, like the Makarov, are even less desirable for reasons of ergonomics and for issues like that listed in the OP. A combined lever like on the USP is okay since it is out of the way on the frame and the safe position can be ignored.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

Like I said, the safety position is redundant and safeties mounted on the slide, like the Makarov, are even less desirable for reasons of ergonomics and for issues like that listed in the OP. A combined lever like on the USP is okay since it is out of the way on the frame and the safe position can be ignored.

I'd say the position of the safety/decocker on the USP is less ergonomic than the one on the makarov and has way more chance of engaging than the mak. I mean it's right on the grip where your thumb goes. It also has little resistance from going up. The mak is really tight and has to purposefully be done. It seems like on the USP it would accidentally decock much easier as well which I guess isn't the biggest deal. But I don't get why it's ok on the USP but not on the mak.

 

[Podmonkey]

I'd say the position of the safety/decocker on the USP is less ergonomic than the one on the makarov and has way more chance of engaging than the mak. I mean it's right on the grip where your thumb goes. It also has little resistance from going up. The mak is really tight and has to purposefully be done. It seems like on the USP it would accidentally decock much easier as well which I guess isn't the biggest deal. But I don't get why it's ok on the USP but not on the mak.

I have never shot a Makarov so I couldn't say, nor have I shot a USP so I'm only guessing. I have shot Berretta 92s though and the position and shape of the safety/decocker makes it possible to engage the safety when racking the slide. On the 1911 one generally uses the safety as a thumb rest which holds it down while firing and its location on the frame keeps it clear when racking the slide. I have also shot various S&W DA/SA guns from the model 39 lineage and I find that having the safety on the slide makes it more of a reach to get to when you want to and easier to get at when you don't. I have no idea if the location of the safety lever on the USP on the frame avoids these issues or not but I strongly suspect so. In either case I strongly prefer a decocker control only on a DA/SA to the degree that I will not purchase a DA/SA gun unless so configured. Manual safeties are for SA guns, those you carry cocked with a round in a chamber, the light, short trigger pull neccitates one.
A DA/SA gun is to be carried hammer down on a loaded chamber, the long heavy initial DA pull is the safety, like on a DA revolver. Therefore a manual saftey is at best redundant and at worst a hindrance. The decocker is needed to safely get back to condition 2 after firing a shot(s) prior to reholstering.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

I have never shot a Makarov so I couldn't say, nor have I shot a USP so I'm only guessing. I have shot Berretta 92s though and the position and shape of the safety/decocker makes it possible to engage the safety when racking the slide. On the 1911 one generally uses the safety as a thumb rest which holds it down while firing and its location on the frame keeps it clear when racking the slide. I have also shot various S&W DA/SA guns from the model 39 lineage and I find that having the safety on the slide makes it more of a reach to get to when you want to and easier to get at when you don't. I have no idea if the location of the safety lever on the USP on the frame avoids these issues or not but I strongly suspect so. In either case I strongly prefer a decocker control only on a DA/SA to the degree that I will not purchase a DA/SA gun unless so configured. Manual safeties are for SA guns, those you carry cocked with a round in a chamber, the light, short trigger pull neccitates one.
A DA/SA gun is to be carried hammer down on a loaded chamber, the long heavy initial DA pull is the safety, like on a DA revolver. Therefore a manual saftey is at best redundant and at worst a hindrance. The decocker is needed to safely get back to condition 2 after firing a shot(s) prior to reholstering.

Ah. I own a mak and fire is also down (the way it makes sense) and decock/safety is up. To perform the decock/saftey it has to be done purposefully because the lever is really tight going up but only average resistance going down to fire. I agree about the 92s. I think the european way is backwards. It's like they want you to be able to put it on safe quickly but put in more effort to be able to fire. My desert eagle is the same way. The mak is such a small gun though that even with the lever being on the slide it's easy to manipulate even without breaking your grip. The 92 not so much and the DE REALLY not so much. The only gun I've ever owned that had a lever that was only a decocker only was a P95DC. I guess it was a more rare variant in that it was strictly decocker only. No safe. I can't think of another pistol like that that isn't a mod.

 

[Podmonkey]

Ah. I own a mak and fire is also down (the way it makes sense) and decock/safety is up. To perform the decock/saftey it has to be done purposefully because the lever is really tight going up but only average resistance going down to fire. I agree about the 92s. I think the european way is backwards. It's like they want you to be able to put it on safe quickly but put in more effort to be able to fire. My desert eagle is the same way. The mak is such a small gun though that even with the lever being on the slide it's easy to manipulate even without breaking your grip. The 92 not so much and the DE REALLY not so much. The only gun I've ever owned that had a lever that was only a decocker only was a P95DC. I guess it was a more rare variant in that it was strictly decocker only. No safe. I can't think of another pistol like that that isn't a mod.

SIGs are decocker only, in fact the P22x series sets the gold standard in its DA/SA controls. However CZ and Beretta have long offered the 75 and 92 series in decocker only from the factory. Likewise the USP is also available with a decocker only model, its just not as common as the safety verisons.
The Wilson Combat Brigadier Tactical is only offered as a decocker model. I am definitely going to get one of those someday, especially now that a version with the Vertec style grip frame is now available.

 

[OwnTheRide]

So I've been competingin a weekly steel target league and i took my M9A3 for the first time this week. I had only shot it once before at the range. So i line up for my first round, timer beeps, i draw, pull... Nothing. Fuck. Safety is on. I'd swear i had it off but nevertheless it cost me alot of time.

Next round. Line up, beeper, pull trigger, hammer drops... Nothing. Pull trigger again... Nothing. Tap, rack, nothing. FUCK! Turned out to be a bad primer. I've never experienced one before. But even after ejecting that round, somehow the safety engaged when i racked the slide. I don't think the A3 does that automatically, but it's on the slide and i hate it there. Couldn't imagine encountering this during an actual life or death scenario. Even still, i was pretty frazzled and not very efficient. Learned alot from those two situations. One, be familiar with your gun. Two, safeties are frigging useless and three, i would never carry anything other than a striker fired safety free gun If my life would eventually depend on it.

I've had two striker-fired pistols fail on me. One was a Taurus PT 24/7, okay, fine, it's a Taurus. The other was a Ruger SR9, purchased new. Both were light-striking - the firing pin was not hitting the primer hard enough.

Both were due to gunpowder reside building up inside the striker area - the top part of the slide that you would have to completely disassemble to get to.

At this point, I don't think there is a single gun I would absolutely trust my life to.

 

[HighlandLofts]

I just don't trust semi autos. And I have a few and sold a butt load of them. For an almost never fail pocket carry gun I will stick with my Smith 642 Aireweight.
I do occasionally carry my Colt 80 Series Combat Commander 45 auto in town.
Up in the mountains I carry my Glock 20 - 10mm with the 15 round mag. I know a few people who happened upon meth cooking operations. I generally doesn't turn out to good.

 

[Justincase]

I don't have any revolvers yet, but my VP9 hasn't hiccuped even once yet. Nor has my 43. I would trust my life to either one of those guns. Not sure what my first wheel gun will be. Competing with one will be a bit of a learning curve though, for sure.

 

[HighlandLofts]

I have a shit load of revolvers, my very favorite shooting revolver is my stainless 357 magnum Ruger GP100, six inch barrel. I have a bunch of Smith's and Ruger.
I am currently working for a company that builds $750,000 to a $1,000,000 houses. Some start to finish. I get a lot of sawdust and other garbage in my pockets, I pocket carry, so a revolver with an exposed hammer or a semi-auto would not work for me.

When I go to any city I carry my 642 in my right front pocket and my Colt 1911 in the right backside.

Up in the mountains where we go shooting I have my pocket gun and a 357magnum or a 44magnum revolver on my hip.
When we are riding the forest service roads looking for grouse or just out for a ride I take my glock 20, - 10mm.

Its all good, every one has different likes, thoughts and uses for handguns.
That main this is YOU HAVE ONE, or more.