Good mild kicking rifle caliber for first time female deer hunter?

meketrefe · May 16, 2017

The 7mm08 will doeverything any of the calibers do but better and will do more.
From 110gr to 175gr cwn cover any needs including great white tail mild loads.
It outperforms all 6.5 calibers in 308 based case and also the 308 winchester.
In a mini action the 6.8 is hard to beat.

Marine Cpl · May 16, 2017

Instead of all these Wildcat type calibers, why not get her something chambered in a more common caliber like a .223 or .308?

If .223, there is ammo that'll take down any deer. Hell, people hunt tough hogs with it.

meketrefe · May 17, 2017

Willjr75 said:
Instead of all these Wildcat type calibers, why not get her something chambered in a more common caliber like a .223 or .308?

If .223, there is ammo that'll take down any deer. Hell, people hunt tough hogs with it.

What wildcats?

The 223 might not be legal to hunt in some places.
the 308 with 120gr bullets is a good round and manageable but like I said the 7mm-08 will be superior in every single aspect to any other offspring from the same case including the 308 itself.

the only instance where a 308 might give an edge is with high performance 180gr bonded bullets to hunt large game at moderate ranges but marginally so. But for that the 358 winchester is the king from the same case.

In any case those are not for recoil sensitive folks.

Marine Cpl · May 17, 2017

meketrefe said:
What wildcats?

The 223 might not be legal to hunt in some places.
the 308 with 120gr bullets is a good round and manageable but like I said the 7mm-08 will be superior in every single aspect to any other offspring from the same case including the 308 itself.

the only instance where a 308 might give an edge is with high performance 180gr bonded bullets to hunt large game at moderate ranges but marginally so. But for that the 358 winchester is the king from the same case.

In any case those are not for recoil sensitive folks.

I'm talking about for a woman that's new to shooting and not about the ballistics of the bullet per say. The OP is from NY where both calibers are legal to hunt with.

Since she's new, there is surplus and bulk for her to practice with rather than having a 6.5 or Blackout where you cannot get the ammo in bulk at your local store.

The OP never mentioned reloading.

That's where I'm coming from.

Cippee · May 17, 2017

308 or .35 rem lever action. The 35 is actually fun as hell to shoot.

1075tech · May 17, 2017

My vote goes to 6.5 Grendel. Light recoil. Mine with a mid-length gas system and adjustable gas block has less felt recoil than my 5.56 Carbine. 123 gr SST absolutely devastating on whitetail. Will take down any North American game. At our elevation above sea level, 16" barrel will get you enough speed for reliable expansion out to nearly 400 yards with the SST.

Light recoil, light rifle. Faster follow up shots. I took 2 doe last season in 15 seconds. Both dropped with in 20 yards of where they were hit.

Available in bolt action from Howa and CZ.

I think my daughter might use one of mine this coming season.

meketrefe · May 17, 2017

Willjr75 said:
I'm talking about for a woman that's new to shooting and not about the ballistics of the bullet per say. The OP is from NY where both calibers are legal to hunt with.

Since she's new, there is surplus and bulk for her to practice with rather than having a 6.5 or Blackout where you cannot get the ammo in bulk at your local store.

The OP never mentioned reloading.

That's where I'm coming from.

OK ...anyway they aren't wildcats.
The reason for the 6.8 is simple, it addresses all the shortcoming of all the other small action calibers.
But the others 243, 260, 7mm-08 are quite plentiful. sometimes when you do not have service ammo or good deals on them
you can always still find these classic and popular cartriges.
Like I said the 7mm-08 is an amazing cartrige one can grow into.

GuyMontag · May 17, 2017

Willjr75 said:
Since she's new, there is surplus and bulk for her to practice with rather than having a 6.5 or Blackout where you cannot get the ammo in bulk at your local store.

6.5 ammo is readily available most everywhere these days.

@thewheels · May 17, 2017

GuyMontag said:
6.5 ammo is readily available most everywhere these days.

In big box type stores? I see it everywhere online but around me it is not consistently on the shelf yet at the box stores.

Marine Cpl · May 17, 2017

GuyMontag said:
6.5 ammo is readily available most everywhere these days.

In 20 round boxes... Yes. Some is available. You are then only limited to what they have which is usually hollow point hunting ammo.

I've yet to see a bulk pack of 500, military surplus, or Russian steel cased like Wolf or Tula that you can use for cheap plinking for practice though.

The benefits of .223 or .308 is that you can buy cheap FMJ to spend a day teaching someone to shoot it and it isn't going to cost you over a dollar a round while only buying 1 or 2 boxes of the premium stuff for hunting only.

Eddie Gunks · May 17, 2017

44 mag
357
30-30

All will do the job close in. Which is where most of my shooting happens. You?

ManrisFrack · May 17, 2017

But you're not gonna get a recoil sensitive newbie through more than a box or two of 308 anyway...

And why does ammo have to be available at Wallyworld in order to validate a caliber? I've heard that even in NewYorkistan one can still mail order ammo.

So we're back to .223 because of cheap plinking ammo. Personally, I wouldn't send a brand new deer hunter into the woods with a .223. It takes experience know what's a good shot, to wait for that good shot and to deliver it. To send a brand new hunter out with a caliber that is only adequate at best, is doing everyone a disservice. She already has a 10/22 and he has a Mini-14; use those to develop skills and have fun with. Go with a caliber that gives a little more margin for error and use it as a gun that is mostly for hunting with a little range time on the side.

Honestly, I don't know anyone that runs 500 rounds through a rifle on Friday and then takes the same rifle into the deer woods on Saturday.

nortatoga · May 17, 2017

For 223 you have to keep in mind the barrels twist-rate, A lot of rifles are 1-12 so you are limited to the weight of the bullet ( like 55gr ). @ArmedCorgi do you belong to a club that you may be able to find members that may allow this young lady to try different rifles?

capitalcrew · May 17, 2017

6.8 will always get my vote, my AR barely kicks and it is devastating. Ammo isn't cheap really and you're not going to find it in bulk locally, but a great hunting round.

capitalcrew · May 17, 2017

Also welcome to try mine if you're local to the albany area

Marine Cpl · May 17, 2017

The fallacy that .223 for a deer is not adequate is just that. It's repeated over and over ignoring the thousands of deer taken down every couple of years with the cartridge. It's like the fallacy that a shotgun doesn't need to be aimed.

As with everything the proper ammo is key. A .223 with a bullet that stays together and doesn't fragment like a TSX traveling at almost 3000 fps will leave a big hole due to the explosive stretch cavity .

Tougher hogs are taken down with the .223.

Criticalt · May 17, 2017

Heres what I did with my GF and my niece, both had ZERO experience with firearms prior to my excellent tutelage.

Teach her the basics with whatever rifles you have. Once she is making tight groups at 50 yards, she will, at some point, say, "this is getting boring".
Then find friends with different calibers mentioned in this thread, and let HER decide whats best for her.
On their own my GF and niece chose their WT hunting gun. The GF chose 308 and the niece 6.5 Creedmore.
The niece took 2 deer this year. The GF struck out looking for the "perfect" shot.......still gotta work on her a bit.

ManrisFrack · May 17, 2017

Willjr75 said:
The fallacy that .223 for a deer is not adequate is just that. It's repeated over and over ignoring the thousands of deer taken down every couple of years with the cartridge. It's like the fallacy that a shotgun doesn't need to be aimed.

As with everything the proper ammo is key. A .223 with a bullet that stays together and doesn't fragment like a TSX traveling at almost 3000 fps will leave a big hole due to the explosive stretch cavity .

Tougher hogs are taken down with the .223.

No one said .223 isn't adequate. I simply said that adequate is all it is. Virtually every other rifle caliber mentioned here brings more to the table as a deer killer.

Marine Cpl · May 17, 2017

The Myth: The .223 is too Light for Deer

meketrefe · May 17, 2017

Things can be quickly taken out of context.
A typical white tail is not hard to kill. A huge number of calibers will dispatch a deer quickly including some popular
pistol calibers give the distance is reasonable. In the northern woods this means shots averaging 50 yards.

The 223 is capable of taken white tail, caribou, mountain goat, etc.. without much trouble.
The issue with the 223 is that it has been banned in many places because people used to hunt with the wrong ammo and
bullets like bulk FMJs that can be effective or a total disaster depending on what FMJ.
Same thing applies to the 7.62x39 bulk ammo that is even worse due to the lack of speed and why anyone hunting with
the x39 should look for hunting ammo and bullets. Even some of the cheap soft points are too hard for deer yet
ideal for hogs that are more stout animals. The blackout is even worse and that is why one should keep it for
short ranges and decent bullets. Never use a FMJ to hunt with this. Same thing goes for a 357 lever action and 30 carbine.
Luckly there are plenty of good bullets and ammo to take care of the animal and being realistic.

The other issue is, what type of limitations these small calibers impose on the hunter. We might be presented with a very
large mule deer, tricky angles and tough conditions. Also in the presence of heavy brush none of these cartriges should
be considered and instead consider a heavy thumper ideally starting at 35 and 375 calibers. Deflection by small branches and twigs is a very real thing and will cause us
to miss and hurt the animal something that happens too often when shooting from tree stands when branches above
and brush below can get in the way.
Even the mighty 308 and 30-06 are not ideal if the brush gets thick.

The 6.8 will give an extra edge in many conditions, will be able to tackle elk and larger game but will not be the solution
for everything in the long run.

If one wants a caliber that can do many things in hunting situation a 35 will give the flexibility to shoot very light pistol
bullets for deer or even lighter animals and heavy ones for brush hunting. A 35 rem is a classic but the 358 winchester
is the perfect caliber. Unfortunately one will have to reload for light reduced loads for someone starting or recoil
sensitive.

The idea is that a larger and more powerful caliber will give the edge and extra assurance when conditions do not present
themselves as perfect. This will happen sooner or later and people need to learn when to say know or change positions,
move closer, or whatever it takes.
Even animals that we see as invader and pests (feral hogs) deserve a quick and humane kill. Anyone who doesn't care
about animal suffering of any kind should not be hunting and possibly seeing a shrink.

The reason I suggested the 7mm-08 is because it does everything all the others do in any scenario and much more.
It leaves the 6mm and 6.5mm calibers in the dust when they max out in weight yet offers several nice alternatives
with the lighter loads for the wife or the kids. It is also plentiful and it is the most versatile derivate from the 308 parent,
superior to the 308 and 30-06 themselves. Same reason why the 280 leaves the parent 30-06 and also the 270 in the
dust but there is not need for those for 99% of the hunters. 7mm-08 also popular, plentiful and well priced with
popular budget rifles for these kind of roles.

Other than that, the 358 Winchester is a "true hunters" caliber that will take down any animal in any situation including in
thick woods and brush.

The reason I built the 35 gunner was precisely for the purpose of covering a gap small AR calibers left in order to
go from the smallest and milder simple and affordable loads for smaller game and practice to be able to hunt
the largest game (including Elk, Bear, targets hogs and even moose) like no other AR15 cartrige and also including
brush hunting.

There is no reason to argue about these things. If one is an ethical hunter one most likely follow local laws and ordinances
and will look for a caliber that brings enough power and or speed into the animal with the right ammo and matching
bullets to body weight and anatomy. There are many sources to be able to do this and to hunt with authority and
proven through generations of hunters taking thousands of heads of game cleanly and humanely.

One can kills a moose with a 22LR but because we can do this it doesn't mean that we are going to do it even if it
was legal which is not (...except an emergency /survival situation I guess)

GuyMontag · May 17, 2017

meketrefe, you're not playing fair bringing the 7mm to the party!

As you said, smaller calibers are capable, but have genuine limitations which can impact a quick and ethical kill. That's big consideration in my view as well, and not exactly an ideal test for a new shooter. Why anyone would choose the .223 with all the other options is beyond me, and I'm a HUGE fan of the caliber. Perhaps if you had ONE gun and one only, but you sure wouldn't have it as your first pick for a Deer rifle.

Will, 6.5 is everywhere, cases and boxes. Not sure why you're thinking it's difficult to obtain, and ordering a few cases online is as simple as few mouse clicks.

PRIME 6.5mm CREEDMOOR OTM 130GR MATCH+ [CASE]

Marine Cpl · May 17, 2017

GuyMontag said:
meketrefe, you're not playing fair bringing the 7mm to the party!

As you said, smaller calibers are capable, but have genuine limitations which can impact a quick and ethical kill. That's big consideration in my view as well, and not exactly an ideal test for a new shooter. Why anyone would choose the .223 with all the other options is beyond me, and I'm a HUGE fan of the caliber. Perhaps if you had ONE gun and one only, but you sure wouldn't have it as your first pick for a Deer rifle.

Will, 6.5 is everywhere, cases and boxes. Not sure why you're thinking it's difficult to obtain, and ordering a few cases online is as simple as few mouse clicks.

PRIME 6.5mm CREEDMOOR OTM 130GR MATCH+ [CASE]

That's over a dollar a round if they will even ship to you. It's the same price as hunting ammo in 20 round boxes.

One 3 hour range day where you conservatively shoot 150 rounds will cost you more than 150 bucks.

Show me where you can get Wolf or Lake City surplus for 6.5.

meketrefe · May 17, 2017

Willjr75 said:
That's over a dollar a round if they will even ship to you. It's the same price as hunting ammo in 20 round boxes.

One 3 hour range day where you conservatively shoot 150 rounds will cost you more than 150 bucks.

Show me where you can get Wolf or Lake City surplus for 6.5.

Cannot use surplus to hunt!

Anyway...
Wolf Military Classic, 6.5 Grendel, FMJ, 100 Grain, 500 Rounds - 653509, 6.5 Grendel Ammo at Sportsman's Guide

HOWA 1500 BARRELED ACTION MINI ACTION LW BLUE 6.5 GRENDEL | Brownells

Marine Cpl · May 17, 2017

meketrefe said:
Cannot use surplus to hunt!

Anyway...
Wolf Military Classic, 6.5 Grendel, FMJ, 100 Grain, 500 Rounds - 653509, 6.5 Grendel Ammo at Sportsman's Guide

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying to use surplus at the range instead of 2 dollar a round hunting ammo.

GuyMontag · May 17, 2017

Will, if you typically shoot 150 rounds in 3 hours with a bolt gun, I'd suggest switching to de-caf.

Ammo ships to NY every day of the week, there's no magic to it. I used Prime simply to show the ammo is there to be had. There's lots of cheaper alternatives, you can find Hornady 6.5 ammo for around .$80 round in bulk. Shooting is an expensive hobby, the longer you want to stretch it, the more expensive it's going to get.

Marine Cpl · May 17, 2017

GuyMontag said:
Will, if you typically shoot 150 rounds in 3 hours with a bolt gun, I'd suggest switching to de-caf.

Ammo ships to NY every day of the week, there's no magic to it. I used Prime simply to show the ammo is there to be had. There's lots of cheaper alternatives, you can find Hornady 6.5 ammo for around .$80 round in bulk. Shooting is an expensive hobby, the longer you want to stretch it, the more expensive it's going to get.

No. Not with a bolt gun but typically when I go, it's about 300 rounds. There is nothing a 6.5 can do that a .308 can't as far as hunting goes.

As far as online goes, it's only a matter of time before the face to face database gets created.

meketrefe · May 17, 2017

One cannot have it all, cheap, effective, accurate, .... need to give up something. This is a world of tradeoffs.
We are talking about ready for hunting and accuracy practice / shooting not shooting call of duty style.
50 rounds of good hunting ammo will give plenty of work for a 2hr range session.

Good mild kicking rifle caliber for first time female deer hunter?

.450/400 Nitro Ex

.577 Tyrannosaur.

.450/400 Nitro Ex

.577 Tyrannosaur.

.40 S&W

.338 Win Mag

.475 A&M Magnum

.450/400 Nitro Ex

.44 mag

.308 Win

.577 Tyrannosaur.

.338 Win Mag

6.5 Creedmoor

.338 Win Mag

.44 mag

.44 mag

.577 Tyrannosaur.

.338 Win Mag

6.5 Creedmoor

.475 A&M Magnum

.577 Tyrannosaur.

.450/400 Nitro Ex

.475 A&M Magnum

.44 mag

.577 Tyrannosaur.

.450/400 Nitro Ex

.577 Tyrannosaur.

.44 mag

.577 Tyrannosaur.

.450/400 Nitro Ex