Gun rights advocates sue over New York's concealed carry law

[dwa12479]

Where did the Bruen decision come from? Yea, NY. What major national decisions have come out of Cali? Nothing. Yea, they have Judge Benitez give them the occasional, very localized, win.

And what did NY do immediately after Bruen? We passed the CCIA in DIRECT disregard of the ruling and things actually got worse instead of better... legally speaking.

 

[Xae289]

And what did NY do immediately after Bruen? We passed the CCIA in DIRECT disregard of the ruling and things actually got worse instead of better... legally speaking.

It's still worth fighting. Things got worse for those who already had licenses, yes. However, it opened up concealed carry licenses to a huge portion of the population that otherwise would not have had access to them including those in and around the City. Then fighting sensitive places got us the Dec 8th decision that overturned many of the sensitive locations.

No, the antis won't give up without a fight. Why should we?

 

[dwa12479]

It's still worth fighting. Things got worse for those who already had licenses, yes. However, it opened up concealed carry licenses to a huge portion of the population that otherwise would not have had access to them including those in and around the City. Then fighting sensitive places got us the Dec 8th decision that overturned many of the sensitive locations.

No, the antis won't give up without a fight. Why should we?

I don't disagree its worth fighting. Just pointing out that there are gun rights groups that don't think its worth their time. I can understand their position, even though I don't agree. I get very angry when I still get calls from the NRA. I tell them you abandoned NY, GFY

 

[Jchrisls]

It's still worth fighting. Things got worse for those who already had licenses, yes. However, it opened up concealed carry licenses to a huge portion of the population that otherwise would not have had access to them including those in and around the City. Then fighting sensitive places got us the Dec 8th decision that overturned many of the sensitive locations.

No, the antis won't give up without a fight. Why should we?

Did a huge portion of the population have thier ability to achieve a license increase or did that right become further limited by way of massive cost increases?

I would have to argue that the same roadblocks exist but the goalposts moved to a financial burden VS a state burden.

 

[FP1201]

I’m kind of bummed that GOA is throwing so much weight behind this, but doesn’t seem to be doing much heavy lifting regarding beating down ammo BGCs, the CCIA, etc. Sure, gun rights/access for non-prohibited people is a goal, but this isn’t the direction I was personally hoping for right now. I’m a little selfish. But someone had to pursue this case, so it might as well be someone with the power to do it. I’m conflicted a bit. I’m used to NYS gov losing, then taking it out on the peasants. I see more floggings in our future.

Believe it or not, there IS a strategy behind the way lawsuits are filed as one favorable ruling expounds upon another, likewise suits have to step from Lower Courts to higher ones.
No one case at SCOTUS has brought relief and a return to the origin of the Second Amendment; Laws were made incrementally and that's how they will be overturned. This is why more prominent Pro-Gun organizations tend to discourage efforts from smaller ones. When you lose or tie in a Superior Court, you're pretty well screwed unless you can get SCOTUS to hear your Case (and you've got funding to take it there)

 

[FP1201]

And what did NY do immediately after Bruen? We passed the CCIA in DIRECT disregard of the ruling and things actually got worse instead of better... legally speaking.

The relatively dense group of Democrats that CONTROLS all three Levers of Law making, used the opportunity of the Bruen Decision to execute under cover of darkness all the bullshit that they had cooking, and likely would have even if the State had won the NYSRPA v. Bruen Case. Do you really think the un_SAFE Act was written and put together then enacted into Law within days of Sandy Hook without a lot of pre-planning? No, that shit was predestined and waiting on the tarmac for its delivery vehicle to arrive. The Democrats, predominantly from NYC and downstate have a majority rule, they know it, and don't even bother to inform Republicans of anything, even Committee Meetings they have a seat on...don't believe me? Call your State Senator or Assembly person and ask them! Ask them how the Dems treat Republicans, why they don't know about pending actions, how often they or their opinion is included...go ahead, ask, you'll be stunned.

 

[Xae289]

Did a huge portion of the population have thier ability to achieve a license increase or did that right become further limited by way of massive cost increases?

I would have to argue that the same roadblocks exist but the goalposts moved to a financial burden VS a state burden.

100% the former. Previously, there was no chance for the average metropolitan NYer to get a real carry license. You could get a premesis license or a carry license with a target or hunting restriction unless you were rich, famous, a business owner, clever, or lucky. Previously, the shorter firearms safety course cost $200-300. Now the 18-hr class costs $400-600. Yes, it does take 18 hours, which sucks. But an extra $200 and 12 hours of sitting in a classroom is much less of a barrier than a legislative scheme designed to keep the majority from getting a license.

And honestly, I agree that requiring an 18 hour class that costs almost as much as a handgun and charging $100+ in licensing fees + ammo and firearm background check fees does act like a poll tax that denies 2A rights to the less well-off. I wish such a lawsuit would be raised. But how many people too poor to afford the class and licensing fees are going to go looking for a lawyer instead of looking for a way to scrape together the money for their handgun?

 

[mgunner]

And what did NY do immediately after Bruen? We passed the CCIA in DIRECT disregard of the ruling and things actually got worse instead of better... legally speaking.

Which is why we should stop making excuses for the police not coming out in support of law abiding citizens carrying for protection. Again yesterday was another shooting in the Bronx on the subway by teenagers. Once again the police weren't there to protect anyone. Once again these gun control laws are ignored by criminals. It's a joke. It's really time to stop letting the police take a pass.

 

[mgunner]

The relatively dense group of Democrats that CONTROLS all three Levers of Law making, used the opportunity of the Bruen Decision to execute under cover of darkness all the bullshit that they had cooking, and likely would have even if the State had won the NYSRPA v. Bruen Case. Do you really think the un_SAFE Act was written and put together then enacted into Law within days of Sandy Hook without a lot of pre-planning? No, that shit was predestined and waiting on the tarmac for its delivery vehicle to arrive. The Democrats, predominantly from NYC and downstate have a majority rule, they know it, and don't even bother to inform Republicans of anything, even Committee Meetings they have a seat on...don't believe me? Call your State Senator or Assembly person and ask them! Ask them how the Dems treat Republicans, why they don't know about pending actions, how often they or their opinion is included...go ahead, ask, you'll be stunned.

The Supreme Court should have immediately issued a warrant for the arrest of those who defied a court decision. Enough of these violations of guaranteed rights by state government. A violation by government of a right given to all of us by law, is a criminal act and should be punished. Otherwise there's no point to any law if they can be taken away on a whim. That's what disturbs me the most.

 

[dwa12479]

The relatively dense group of Democrats that CONTROLS all three Levers of Law making, used the opportunity of the Bruen Decision to execute under cover of darkness all the bullshit that they had cooking, and likely would have even if the State had won the NYSRPA v. Bruen Case. Do you really think the un_SAFE Act was written and put together then enacted into Law within days of Sandy Hook without a lot of pre-planning? No, that shit was predestined and waiting on the tarmac for its delivery vehicle to arrive. The Democrats, predominantly from NYC and downstate have a majority rule, they know it, and don't even bother to inform Republicans of anything, even Committee Meetings they have a seat on...don't believe me? Call your State Senator or Assembly person and ask them! Ask them how the Dems treat Republicans, why they don't know about pending actions, how often they or their opinion is included...go ahead, ask, you'll be stunned.

Oh for sure I know they have all kinds of shit sitting in the desk drawer just waiting for the perfect incident to pop up so they can send the bill to the floor and ram it through. Never let a good crisis go to waste.

 

[Acer-m14]

here is a photo of all the GOP Pro Gun Laws just waiting to be sent to the floor to get voted on ..

 

[Grimscale]

A violation by government of a right given to all of us by law,

Rights are not GIVEN to us by law. They are protected from the GOVERNMENT by law.
We have the Rights, even now, if we are brave enough to exercise them.
And when the government decides to infringe on our Rights we should make them aware of their mistake. Politicians who violate someone's Rights should be arrested and incarcerated. Any law to the contrary is automatically un-Constitutional (no such thing as immunity for not performing your Constitutional duties).

 

[Jchrisls]

100% the former. Previously, there was no chance for the average metropolitan NYer to get a real carry license. You could get a premesis license or a carry license with a target or hunting restriction unless you were rich, famous, a business owner, clever, or lucky. Previously, the shorter firearms safety course cost $200-300. Now the 18-hr class costs $400-600. Yes, it does take 18 hours, which sucks. But an extra $200 and 12 hours of sitting in a classroom is much less of a barrier than a legislative scheme designed to keep the majority from getting a license.

And honestly, I agree that requiring an 18 hour class that costs almost as much as a handgun and charging $100+ in licensing fees + ammo and firearm background check fees does act like a poll tax that denies 2A rights to the less well-off. I wish such a lawsuit would be raised. But how many people too poor to afford the class and licensing fees are going to go looking for a lawyer instead of looking for a way to scrape together the money for their handgun?

Please rearrange the final question. I'm confused honestly by it. Attorneys are appointed for free so I'm lost what scenario your trying to portray.

And noone is charged a 600 dollar fee to express thier opinion, nor do they require an 18 hour class to do so. The first ammendment only exists because of the second, yet you can charge for one to uphold the other?

 

[Xae289]

Please rearrange the final question. I'm confused honestly by it. Attorneys are appointed for free so I'm lost what scenario your trying to portray.

And noone is charged a 600 dollar fee to express thier opinion, nor do they require an 18 hour class to do so. The first ammendment only exists because of the second, yet you can charge for one to uphold the other?

Restated: I think licensing fees are unconstitutional in the same way a poll tax is unconstitutional. No one should be charged to exercise a right.

As for people too poor to afford licensing fees– they're not the kind of people to start a lawsuit against the government. Your lawyer isn't free in a civil suit against the government. And if you did face criminal charges in a test case challenging licensing fees, a free public defender is lucky to keep you out of prison, nevermind winning a case that causes a law to be ruled unconstitutional.

 

[mgunner]

Restated: I think licensing fees are unconstitutional in the same way a poll tax is unconstitutional. No one should be charged to exercise a right.

As for people too poor to afford licensing fees– they're not the kind of people to start a lawsuit against the government. Your lawyer isn't free in a civil suit against the government. And if you did face criminal charges in a test case challenging licensing fees, a free public defender is lucky to keep you out of prison, nevermind winning a case that causes a law to be ruled unconstitutional.

The only way is to have a gun rights organization defend you. But I'm still at a loss of how do you contact them if there's an infringement. You're right, I believe that it is a poll tax. If the government charges fees to exercise a right then it's only a matter of time that other rights will be for a fee. This is a major constitutional issue which is why I don't know why gun advocacy groups are silent about this.