HK416

[Edwardteach72]

So figure just a random "shower thoughts" type of thread.

Was listening to a video on the H&K416 and they were essentially talking about the development of the rifle and well they started talking about the dates and what not

Well it turns out the development and early adoption of the H&K416 goes all the way back to the early 2000s (2004 if I'm not mistaken)

Now I know most of us when we think military and standard issued rifle think M16variant or even M4, but don't seem to realize that the 416 has been in service in some capacity for almost 17 years.

Not only that but in 2017 the Marines I belive decided to make it their standard issue rifle.. which goes back to it being a standard issued rifle for the Marines for the last 4 years.


So the original early adopters of the 416 was Delta force who wanted a shorter overall lenght rifle and settled with the 416s 10.5" Barrel.. (hmm 10.5" 5.56 rifles back in 2004/2005 but wait I thought 5.56 needed a 45" Barrel to kill someone )

 

[Edwardteach72]

Other fun bits this got me thinking about.

One of the biggest issues the AR/M16 platform has had problems with, was how to get a shorter barrel and run reliably.

It was a problem that plagued Colt for years.

What makes this kind of fun to think about is that back in 2004 (17 years ago) the idea of a barrel under 14.5" (more specifically 10.5/11.5 and even 12.5) was not so common based mainly on reliability.

Next we think about the 10 years of stunted innovation and growth thanks to the Clinton/NRA Assault Weapons Ban from 1994-2004.

Followed by massive boom in the AR platform development after the sunset. (Some recent news reporting had there being something like 40 million AR style rifles in America around 2004?, I have to go and check the years again, and now they are estimated that there are around 400 million in the country).

A large chunk of these would most likely fall under "pistols" or even SBRs which are becoming much more common, with a common barrel lenghts being 10.5, 11.5, and 12.5 inches



Idk bit of a long random thread but some fun things to kind of think about between how old the HK416 actually is, to also how much has changed even since 2004 when Short barrel 5.56 chambered ARs were not all that reliable to 17 years later where they are completely common and owned by millions of people

 

[Defilade]

Short barrel means CQB. Should not need a short barrel 5.56. Like you said not the best in reliabilty. Use the trusted and True MP5

 

[Podmonkey]

I will always think that the 416 is an overweight, overpriced, overhyped gun that, like all external piston AR types, creates more issues than it solves.
Reliable SBR conventional ARs have been figured out now anyway.

Short barrel means CQB. Should not need a short barrel 5.56. Like you said not the best in reliabilty. Use the trusted and True MP5

I Disagree. Even out of very short barrels 5.56 delivers a great deal more energy to the target and has greater range potential than any 9mm.
When I was pondering whether to get a 9mm PCC or a 5.56 "pistol" for a truck gun I did a lot of research. The only advantage 9mm has is lower blast, in all other respects a PCC/Subgun is outperformed by 5.56 SBR/"Pistols".

 

[Edwardteach72]

Like you said not the best in reliabilty.

That's not at all what I said. Nice try.

I said on the past they haven't been reliable.

12.5, 11.5 and even 10.5" 5.56 guns are extremely reliable these days and have been since well 2004 (since that's what the 416 was originally offered in)

 

[Edwardteach72]

I will always think that the 416 is an overweight, overpriced, overhyped gun that, like all external piston AR types, creates more issues than it solves.
Reliable SBR conventional ARs have been figured out now anyway.


I Disagree. Even out of very short barrels 5.56 delivers a great deal more energy to the target and has greater range potential than any 9mm.
When I was pondering whether to get a 9mm PCC or a 5.56 "pistol" for a truck gun I did a lot of research. The only advantage 9mm has is lower blast, in all other respects a PCC/Subgun is outperformed by 5.56 SBR/"Pistols".

Oh im not hyping the 416. I just thought how cool if was that it's been around almost 20 years (same for the scar) and how quickly in the last 2 decades we have gone from anything under 14.5 is tricky to get running to oh you want 4" ar barrel sure we can do that

 

[Edwardteach72]

Oh I also like the the whole idea that oh the m4 this and m4 that when other platforms have been in service for as long as they have and are working to phase out the m4

 

[Podmonkey]

The problem with the M4 is that Colt never intended it to function as an ersatz light machine gun as it often was in SOCOM service.
The M4 was intended to be a light, defensive weapon for second line troops, succeeding the M2 Carbine in that role.
Here is a 2 hour, 2 part video series on the history of the M4 by the guy who literally wrote the book on it. Check it out when you can spare the time. It's fascinating stuff!

 

[togmaster]

Short barrel means CQB. Should not need a short barrel 5.56. Like you said not the best in reliabilty. Use the trusted and True MP5

MP5 great gun. 9mm not the best caliber for a sbr.

 

[Podmonkey]

Waiting for a certain pinko to show up to discredit Chris Bartocchi and set everyone straight with his incredible knowledge

 

[togmaster]

I would love a 416 if I could own a full auto. Suppressed of course.

 

[Podmonkey]

I would love a 416 if I could own a full auto. Suppressed of course.

For the money
I'd take one of the new Knights Armaments machine guns.

 

[Edwardteach72]

The problem with the M4 is that Colt never intended it to function as an ersatz light machine gun as it often was in SOCOM service.
The M4 was intended to be a light, defensive weapon for second line troops, succeeding the M2 Carbine in that role.
Here is a 2 hour, 2 part video series on the history of the M4 by the guy who literally wrote the book on it. Check it out when you can spare the time. It's fascinating stuff!

I think my point for bringing up the m4 in this was everyone knows the m4 and talks about m4s but they have only been in service for about 10 years longer than the 416.

Not so much that the m4 couldn't be sbr'd..

The colt having issues with getting 5.56 guns to run reliably was more from all their attemps in the 80s trying to get short spec ops guns to run short barrels

 

[Defilade]

MP5 great gun. 9mm not the best caliber for a sbr.

Depends on the mission. MP5 has been used for decades by top tier units.

 

[Podmonkey]

Depends on the mission. MP5 has been used for decades by top tier units.

So have short 5.56 rifles.

 

[Defilade]

So have short 5.56 rifles.

Yes but reliability has been an issue.

 

[Podmonkey]

Yes but reliability has been an issue.

Not for over a decade.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Yes but reliability has been an issue.

Not in almost 2 decades

 

[Edwardteach72]

While not necessarily the 17 (H)

Another Military rifle that actually has more Military time than I thought. The FN SCAR. Which started its development just shortly after or around the same time as the HK 416 (SCAR16)




It's fun to think how these are considered modern modern, many might not even know they've already been in service or some may think they just got adopted. But almost 2 decades ago is when the SCAR was developed

 

[m1a_scoutguy]

Old vid but since we are talking about the 416, let's watch it run,, anyone can talk, LOL! I still watch this vid every so often. Sit back turn up your speakers and enjoy! (2480) Running and Gunning with the HK416 - YouTube

 

[ICEMAN]

My issued rifle for last 7 years has been a colt m4 with 10.5” barrel. It runs great and have about 7k rounds through it. I keep it wet with slip 2000 ewl. Maybe mine is rare, but haven’t noticed any of ours having problems. Prior to this we had 14.5”.

 

[Robin]

I remember the old CAR-15. It had a terrible reputation as a jamb-o-rama.
Robin

 

[Edwardteach72]

Ok so for anyone that read my nonsense I think I wrote pre-1994 Clinton/NRA Assault Weapons Ban I said something to the affect if there being 40 million AR15s in circulation (estimated) and now there being 400 million..

I mispoken(wrote)

Number was actually 400,000 and 200,000,000

400 thousand and now 200 million

 

[Upstate43]

So figure just a random "shower thoughts" type of thread.

Was listening to a video on the H&K416 and they were essentially talking about the development of the rifle and well they started talking about the dates and what not

Well it turns out the development and early adoption of the H&K416 goes all the way back to the early 2000s (2004 if I'm not mistaken)

Now I know most of us when we think military and standard issued rifle think M16variant or even M4, but don't seem to realize that the 416 has been in service in some capacity for almost 17 years.

Not only that but in 2017 the Marines I belive decided to make it their standard issue rifle.. which goes back to it being a standard issued rifle for the Marines for the last 4 years.


So the original early adopters of the 416 was Delta force who wanted a shorter overall lenght rifle and settled with the 416s 10.5" Barrel.. (hmm 10.5" 5.56 rifles back in 2004/2005 but wait I thought 5.56 needed a 45" Barrel to kill someone )
View attachment 113126

HK416 is not the standard issue rifle for the USMC...rather, it's lightweight alternative to the M249 SAW carried by some or all of the squad's automatic gunners.

As far as I know, no one has claimed that a 10.5" 5.56mm rifle is incapable of killing someone. It does, however, compromise on accuracy at range. For someone conducting a close-quarters raid, that probably doesn't matter so much. For someone conducting a 6 month deployment in the open terrain of southern Afghanistan, it matters a lot more.

Great rifle no doubt. The epitome of over-engineering. I think it doesn't offer too much value to the average front-line combatant. Direct Impingement works well enough for the typical usage: unsuppressed, semi-auto fire. Full auto fire (for carbines and rifles) is not nearly as common on the battlefield as the movies would lead you to believe. In fact, it's rarely warranted.