How can NY Gun Owners of different backgrounds and priorities better advance gun rights?

[Marine Cpl]

On the flip side, plenty of LGBT people are supportive of gun rights, with good reason, but driven off because of wacky Right Wing nonsense,

And this forum often forgets because it is a gun forum, that those other pesky amendments do matter.

One of the worst things this side does though is not having the ability to say “I’m wrong” or accepting criticism. “Trump is demonstrably more anti gun than Obama” should not be met with “WOULDJA RATHER HAVE HILLIARY HMMMMMMMMMMM!?”

I agree with your first statement. We push gay and other gun owners away.

But to say Hillary or Obama is better than Trump because they couldn’t pass anti gun laws while Trump got rid of buttstocks is just plain wrong.

I leave it at that so as not to derail the thread.

 

[Darth]

I agree with your first statement. We push gay and other gun owners away.

But to say Hillary or Obama is better than Trump because they couldn’t pass anti gun laws while Trump got rid of buttstocks is just plain wrong.

I leave it at that so as not to derail the thread.

It‘s factually correct though, and he’s just getting pass because he’s “our guy”, and that’s a prime example off my 3rd paragraph.

Rooting for the team not the policy. Huge turn off.

 

[SmallGameAddict]

I'm going to post something relevant, but not debate it all nite cuz ima hit the hay soon.

Every generation has its challenges. Us 'Graybeards' as you call us. Our challenge was handguns. Or, as the politicians and press liked to label them- Saturday Night Specials. Demonized at every turn.

Have you ever looked at a "Then and Now" map of state by state handgun carry laws since the 1960s and 1970s? Some states had open carry. Many states did not allow concealed carry at all. It was frowned upon, considered criminal behavior and sneaky. The landscape sure has changed.

That took a lot of work. Coordinated effort. Grass roots politicking.

Used to be hardly anyone owned an AR-15. Kind of an odd duck ranch rifle. There was a "Mattel toy" stigma attached to it. I never really considered purchasing one, and I coulda bought one or more anywhere, for cheap. I had little use for a rifle chambered for .223 Rem. A fox and woodchuck cartridge.

Don't get me wrong. To each his own. I care as much about who owns one, compliant or not, about as much as I care if they got a jar of pickles in their refrigerator. Or if you have a basement full of boxes crammed with 30 rounders. This is America. We have a Constitution that spells it out in black and white.

One day in about 1989 a man named Patrick Purdy walked into a schoolyard and shot up a bunch of kids. That got the conversation moving in the wrong direction. I countered it every chance I could, even though I didn't own one. I still wanted to have the choice.

People need to get organized. You gotta have political clout. There has to be a price paid in the voting booth for attempting to repeal or restrict a Constitutional right via legislation. It's the only thing those bums understand.

I got maybe 20 years left if I'm lucky, kinda hurts to admit that. I can honestly say I did the best one man can do. I held up my end.

Gotta hold your ground. Battles have been lost, but the war was still won. Got a tough enemy here. Promising everything for free. Whole lotta baggage to go along with it, no more freedom of choice.

Bad laws can be changed for the better. I seen it happen.

Edit. Edited for accuracy of to reflect the actual year of the Stockton. CA shooting. Forgive me. As the years toll by me memory fails me at times.

 

[GOPerfect]

@GOPerfect.

What's the word in the locker room? What's the word on the street? You deal with other cops every day. Municipality police, County Sheriff deputies, State troopers. Any of this ever come up on casual conversation? General opinions of red flag laws? Disarmament?

Curious about the general law enforcement community opinion, if you have any input you'd be willing to share.

I talk about this with as many cops as I can. Mostly Sheriff Deputy's. ALL of them are against Red Flag laws. Most understand how and why we have been given these types of laws, does not mean they are accepted. I have never met a cop that is able and willing to confiscate guns. I do not know any that are against the 2A. Some are a bit confused on the really strong feelings that others have, but some are trying really hard to make them understand.

I have spoken with a few State cops, some of them have a much different opinion. City cops are not as open as the Deputy's that I speak with. I think that will be the basic mindset all around the state.

 

[GOPerfect]

Off topic, @GOPerfect ...are you familiar with Jack Donovan's website?...Jack Donovan – Masculine Philosophy

Not until I read your post.

 

[spat]

I talk about this with as many cops as I can. Mostly Sheriff Deputy's. ALL of them are against Red Flag laws. Most understand how and why we have been given these types of laws, does not mean they are accepted. I have never met a cop that is able and willing to confiscate guns. I do not know any that are against the 2A. Some are a bit confused on the really strong feelings that others have, but some are trying really hard to make them understand.

I have spoken with a few State cops, some of them have a much different opinion. City cops are not as open as the Deputy's that I speak with. I think that will be the basic mindset all around the state.

Like everything else in modern America it sounds like an Urban/Rural split.

That divide is getting to be more stark than the North/South divide of the 1800s.

Maybe in 100 years we won't have Rebels and Yankees, we'll have city slickers and rednecks.

 

[GOPerfect]

Like everything else in modern America it sounds like an Urban/Rural split.

That divide is getting to be more stark than the North/South divide of the 1800s.

Maybe in 100 years we won't have Rebels and Yankees, we'll have city slickers and rednecks.

I am shocked (almost), how this Nation is so split on so many issues.

This, I believe is the biggest issue facing us.

Seems like every single issue in America is split. This is why nothing even close to perfect can occur.

 

[FrankenCub]

I think you only assume that I am white.

I am a Scandinavian American.

Wait a minute, thought you said to drop the identity politics? So should I call myself an American or Finish American?
Wife calls me asshole so guess it doesnt matter lol.

 

[spat]

I am shocked (almost), how this Nation is so split on so many issues.

This, I believe is the biggest issue facing us.

Seems like every single issue in America is split. This is why nothing even close to perfect can occur.

The urban and rural lifestyles are so starkly different they are fundamentally incompatible.

It's possible to coexist if you don't insist the other group tries to live your lifestyle in their environment, but the urbanites don't seem willing to allow that.

 

[SmallGameAddict]

I talk about this with as many cops as I can. Mostly Sheriff Deputy's. ALL of them are against Red Flag laws. Most understand how and why we have been given these types of laws, does not mean they are accepted. I have never met a cop that is able and willing to confiscate guns. I do not know any that are against the 2A. Some are a bit confused on the really strong feelings that others have, but some are trying really hard to make them understand.

I have spoken with a few State cops, some of them have a much different opinion. City cops are not as open as the Deputy's that I speak with. I think that will be the basic mindset all around the state.

Thank you for the reply.

 

[beebee]

Seriously. The only way to stop anti gun legislation at this point is for a catastrophic event to happen where the government is no longer in control.

Total disarmament will happen eventually. Pistol grips will be the next thing. Then semi automatic afterwards once people get used to not having pistol grips. Then bolts and levers unless you own a valid hunting license. Then eventually just cause to get a hunting license

It’s implemented in baby steps so that the people get used to it.

And for those that say that it will never happen, there will come a time when all 3 branches are controlled by gun grabbers and all you graybeards are dead and long gone and those of fighting age will be those that went through indoctrination in school who never owned an AR of their own.

I mean look at NY. In just a short time, there is less interest in the AR platform compared to how it used to be. You think your grandkids will have interest in it if they never experienced it? How about their kids?

Exactly.. death by a thousand cuts..Or the frog boiled alive by heating the water so slowly he doesn't know he is dying...
They can implement any restrictions they want, effectively crippling the 2A, but still call them,
""common sense gun laws""..

""We are STRONG supporters of the Second Amendment, and in no way do these common sense gun safety regulations restrict your rights under the 2 A""...... I hear this lie constantly from the gun grabbing communists.


Thats the way it will go down, regulation by 'common sense" regulation.. Just the way its happened here in NY so far. It has been and will continue to intensify.
There is NO doubt in my mind that Agenda 21 IS being implemented, and the ruling class cannot and will not tolerate an armed populace long term. Problem is, they have the national and world media in their back pocket, and a population of timid sheep that want no one to have guns..
The cities in any given state call the shots, and thats where the totally dependent sheep live... Sad to say they have the numbers on their side, we don't... bob

 

[spat]

Exactly.. death by a thousand cuts..Or the frog boiled alive by heating the water so slowly he doesn't know he is dying...
They can implement any restrictions they want, effectively crippling the 2A, but still call them,
""common sense gun laws""..

""We are STRONG supporters of the Second Amendment, and in no way do these common sense gun safety regulations restrict your rights under the 2 A""...... I hear this lie constantly from the gun grabbing communists.


Thats the way it will go down, regulation by 'common sense" regulation.. Just the way its happened here in NY so far. It has been and will continue to intensify.
There is NO doubt in my mind that Agenda 21 IS being implemented, and the ruling class cannot and will not tolerate an armed populace long term. Problem is, they have the national and world media in their back pocket, and a population of timid sheep that want no one to have guns..
The cities in any given state call the shots, and thats where the totally dependent sheep live... Sad to say they have the numbers on their side, we don't... bob

Conservatives need to echo those arguments on stuff we want regulated. In the very least the left will start to recognize they aren't valid.

"We don't want to infringe on your right to an abortion, we just want common sense abortion control."

 

[SmallGameAddict]

They are using our playbook against us. Handgun laws esp carry laws were changed 1 state at a time, by slowly electing representatives in state legislative bodies and by electing governors who would sign those bills into law.

It must be understood that those who would diminish and/or eliminate our Constitutional liberties are always waiting to pounce. Off year elections especially. People get complacent. Too lazy to get off the couch and take a few minutes to drive to their polling place on election day.

The easiest thing to do to make your voice heard is to vote. Election Day is the only day of the year that elected representatives actually care about your opinion.

In the mind of liberals, it's winner take all, because they push a "democracy" narrative. The people have spoken, so majority rules. The United States is not a democracy, it is a Constitutional Republic with some democratic principles. They think because they win an election, they can legislate away a civil right. That simply is not true. Either a right exists, or it doesn't.

 

[SmallGameAddict]

Conservatives need to echo those arguments on stuff we want regulated. In the very least the left will start to recognize they aren't valid.

"We don't want to infringe on your right to an abortion, we just want common sense abortion control."

That's a thought

 

[Robin]

If someone came up with a complete, can't lose plan to repeal the SAFE Act and sent it out special delivery, I think there are a fair number of gun owners that would say, fuck you, you printed it on the wrong color paper I'm having nothing to do with it. And, work tirelessly, and loudly, to convince the other 99% that think it's a good idea, that it is a bad idea. I swear!
Robin

 

[Catskillkid]

If someone came up with a complete, can't lose plan to repeal the SAFE Act and sent it out special delivery, I think there are a fair number of gun owners that would say, fuck you, you printed it on the wrong color paper I'm having nothing to do with it. And, work tirelessly, and loudly, to convince the other 99% that think it's a good idea, that it is a bad idea. I swear!
Robin

I don't care about color but that crap better be on legal size and not 8.5x11. Just sayin'

 

[Robin]

 

[Grimscale]

Conservatives need to echo those arguments on stuff we want regulated. In the very least the left will start to recognize they aren't valid.

"We don't want to infringe on your right to an abortion, we just want common sense abortion control."

The ironic part is, that is how the anti-gun groups have been so effective lately. They've started using the same playbook the anti-abortion crowd used. I could see it when this shit started becoming more effective back before the un-SAFE Act.
And I agree with earlier sentiments that politicians should not be wearing their religion on their sleeves, and certainly not keep trying to entrench their religions in our Laws. This only serves to drive away people who would otherwise support individual Rights.

What we, as gun Rights supporters, should be doing now is having inclusive rallies.
"We don't care who you marry, what you wear, what color you are, what you believe in..
We only care that you are able to defend yourself from those who would oppress you, or attack you, or seek to do you harm."

You could have a commercial showing different groups practicing at ranges, defending their homes from burglars, parents teaching children how to shoot. And end it with all of them coming together as a militia.
Bonus points if the enemy of that militia were people like herr Cuomo, Bloomberg, Hillary, etc.

 

[spat]

The ironic part is, that is how the anti-gun groups have been so effective lately. They've started using the same playbook the anti-abortion crowd used. I could see it when this shit started becoming more effective back before the un-SAFE Act.
And I agree with earlier sentiments that politicians should not be wearing their religion on their sleeves, and certainly not keep trying to entrench their religions in our Laws. This only serves to drive away people who would otherwise support individual Rights.

What we, as gun Rights supporters, should be doing now is having inclusive rallies.
"We don't care who you marry, what you wear, what color you are, what you believe in..
We only care that you are able to defend yourself from those who would oppress you, or attack you, or seek to do you harm."

You could have a commercial showing different groups practicing at ranges, defending their homes from burglars, parents teaching children how to shoot. And end it with all of them coming together as a militia.
Bonus points if the enemy of that militia were people like herr Cuomo, Bloomberg, Hillary, etc.

Honestly we could probably play to their Trump hatred in some circles.

"Better arm your self while you can, before Trump's Gestapo shows up to haul you off to the camps".

Really, the 2A is about a healthy fear of government (or more precisely, what government could become). If we can get them to recognize the danger, maybe we can gain some converts.

They couldn't conceive of an out of control government trampling on their rights when Obama was in charge, but now they think it's imminent.

They will probably just say "Trump is a fluke, it could never happen again" right now, but if he wins in November, that might be the right time to push that approach.

 

[Saltwater60]

Many gun owners are gay. They will vote in Democrats regardless who are against gun owners to further their cause. This is evidenced in that Liberal Gun Club forum.

I blame the Republican Party as well. They need to drop the whole religion thing if they ever want to survive. Republicanism should only focus on fiscal issues and rights. Not just gun rights but all constitutional rights.

I disagree.
I think republicans are the only ones with a shred of decency and that’s because some of them have some religion. I also don’t think they talk about being religious in the campaign trail or tout it to get elected. I think people just think that. Some do bring up religious stuff but not many. I don’t think that’s what’s holding back the party.

Ask any kid in high school. My son says everyone around him is gay, lesbian, or transgender at this point. He stopped doing the lights and sound both for the school play because everyone in the school play is gay. The lesbians in the lights and sound booth were mean and nasty with him because he’s not gay. Drive by your local school and see what shirts and pins they are wearing.
Republicans have some morals is the issue. This is a society that wants anything and everything to go and be accepted. This is wrong and it should not be allowed. Not from a biblical standpoint but from a moral and societal standpoint. For instance democrats are soft on crime and crime rises. The republicans should tap into that emotion. The republicans do a poor job of promoting their successes and the demonrats failings. The republicans fail themselves continuously.

I can see it if we keep going this direction kid sex, pedophilia and abortion anytime will be legalized. These aren’t just wrong in religious circles but are just plain morally wrong.

 

[96coal449]

Different backgrounds do not, nor should play into a Right.

Our Rights are not based upon different types of groups.

Seriously, I think one of the biggest issues we face in America are labels.

Everyone wants a label.

In the US, for example, we call a Black man, an African American.

In Germany, that same black man would be called a German.

Stop the identity politics and life gets better.

Damn ....no wonder your reaction score is so high.

You know your hammer weight well. You continually slam nails on the head in many posts.

 

[SmallGameAddict]

He's got a lotta time to think about it over donuts and coffee

 

[96coal449]

Hook up monkey face with Dana Loesch and she can make him sign anything. Then she can rip his heart out by the roots and we can laugh at him some more.

There is no way such a fine women like that, would ever let a disease infested POS like Andy anywhere near her.

 

[96coal449]

What happens if I swallow the red pill?

Fuck the red pills. Go straight to the black ones.

Black pilled, Devon Stacks ......blowtube.

 

[96coal449]

You find out how deep this rabbit hole really goes.

See post #54 ......much, much, much deeper.

 

[SmallGameAddict]

F this state. I'm outta here in a reasonable time frame. Believe it.

NY could go Constitutional Carry tomorrow. I'd still be outta here. One slice of the pie.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I disagree.
I think republicans are the only ones with a shred of decency and that’s because some of them have some religion. I also don’t think they talk about being religious in the campaign trail or tout it to get elected. I think people just think that. Some do bring up religious stuff but not many. I don’t think that’s what’s holding back the party.

Ask any kid in high school. My son says everyone around him is gay, lesbian, or transgender at this point. He stopped doing the lights and sound both for the school play because everyone in the school play is gay. The lesbians in the lights and sound booth were mean and nasty with him because he’s not gay. Drive by your local school and see what shirts and pins they are wearing.
Republicans have some morals is the issue. This is a society that wants anything and everything to go and be accepted. This is wrong and it should not be allowed. Not from a biblical standpoint but from a moral and societal standpoint. For instance democrats are soft on crime and crime rises. The republicans should tap into that emotion. The republicans do a poor job of promoting their successes and the demonrats failings. The republicans fail themselves continuously.

I can see it if we keep going this direction kid sex, pedophilia and abortion anytime will be legalized. These aren’t just wrong in religious circles but are just plain morally wrong.

And that right there is why we are losing our rights. Who cares if you or I or anyone else thinks that they are not decent? Religious rules regarding whether you are gay or not isn’t supposed to be in our government. Our Constitution says so.

 

[pjzwtl]

Until you can get the majority out to actually vote nothing is going to change. I wish I had the answers to make that happen

and term limits politics need to go back to being a service not a windfall

 

[ExMember_4526]

And that right there is why we are losing our rights. Who cares if you or I or anyone else thinks that they are not decent? Religious rules regarding whether you are gay or not isn’t supposed to be in our government. Our Constitution says so.

I personally feel that we should realize that there’s no universally excepted notion of “what is & should be”, nor agreed upon parameters of what constitutes inherently ethical behavior (notions of right & wrong, proper action and inaction, etc). The concept of “Rights” is a notion that is certainly NOT universally excepted as “fact”.

Please review human history & development for examples of how this is a perpetual conflict!

What we as small arms owners and self defense advocates want to achieve is to make “gun rights” a NON ISSUE!

You can assert any “truth” you want, but if you’re dead, what does any of this matter?

And that’s the point of all this! You first have to be alive, before you can argue the proper life one should lead!

Tell those confused about this to take a walk in the woods and observe the animal life. What do they do when one attacks another?

WE WANT TO DRIVE HOME THE POINT THAT THE DEREGULATION OF SMALL ARMS IS ABOUT HAVING ACCESS TO THE TOOLS THAT MAKE DEFENSE OF LIFE MORE POSSIBLE/EFFECTIVE.

 

[ExMember_4526]

Again, this:

How can we make “gun rights” a bipartisan (politically expedient) issue?

Meaning:

That whether someone wants abortion regulated by the state, or they don’t, or someone sexually identifies as an Apache Attack Helicopter, or they don’t, or they want the government to regulate certain markets, or they don’t; when it comes to small arms, it’s self understood that it’s better for society as a whole if they are deregulated?