How can NY Gun Owners of different backgrounds and priorities better advance gun rights?

[ExMember_4526]

AZ is where we are headed, for multiple reasons that may not apply to others here (I have family there).

I plan to cast my vote in the 2020 election there, not NY.

The problem is that it isn't only conservatives who recognize that NY, CA, etc are sinking ships. The rats are leaving too, and bringing the plague with them.

Any other state just buys some time. Unless there is a major shift they will all succumb sooner or later. But later is better than sooner, and it gives you better odds that things can be turned around before it gets ugly.

I just hope that the collapse of NY or CA wakes enough people up that we can change direction before AZ is too far gone as well.

I can tell you that I certainly enjoyed shooting in AZ! The gun culture is great there!

The disturbing thing is, not everyone moving there makes the same points of connection that we do, & certain people fail to realize that they are recreating the same problems they “fled” from, based on who they vote for once relocated in the “better” state.

 

[FrankenCub]

Az would be my choice too, mainly astronomy reasons, but still gun friendly. I'd be up in the high deserts away from people. Property is cheap.

 

[ExMember_4526]

Az would be my choice too, mainly astronomy reasons, but still gun friendly. I'd be up in the high deserts away from people. Property is cheap.

I have friends out there and the gun “culture” is great! The laws are some of the least unconstitutional (although still unconstitutional) in the country! (For now)

On a separate topic, what’s the deal with the caliber changes under my name?

 

[Elwood]

No, it isn't.

Just because you recognize the trap that has been laid for us doesn't mean you can escape it.

The 2 party system is very carefully constructed, and very robust. You can't just break it by voting 3rd

I no longer align with any party, what part of doing away with the party system are you not understanding. I’m an American, I can do as I damn well please including refusing to subscribe to a fraudulent broken outdated system and it’s brainwashing if I so chose, as can anyone else if they so choose, all you have to do is make that choice and stop believing the bullshit rhetoric and empty campaign promises.

 

[GOPerfect]

I no longer align with any party, what part of doing away with the party system are you not understanding. I’m an American, I can do as I damn well please including refusing to subscribe to a fraudulent broken outdated system and it’s brainwashing if I so chose, as can anyone else if they so choose, all you have to do is make that choice and stop believing the bullshit rhetoric and empty campaign promises.

Sure, and if and when you vote, as things are right now; you vote D or R or for a candidate that will lose.

 

[Elwood]

Sure, and if and when you vote, as things are right now; you vote D or R or for a candidate that will lose.

The ham sandwich is always a winner

 

[Acer-m14]

On a separate topic, what’s the deal with the caliber changes under my name?

the more you interact .. post , click the like button .. get likes .. start threads .. the more you do .. your caliber goes up ..

 

[spat]

I no longer align with any party, what part of doing away with the party system are you not understanding. I’m an American, I can do as I damn well please including refusing to subscribe to a fraudulent broken outdated system and it’s brainwashing if I so chose, as can anyone else if they so choose, all you have to do is make that choice and stop believing the bullshit rhetoric and empty campaign promises.

The part I don't understand is how you think you are going to abolish the 2 party system.

You can refuse to acknowledge it all you want, but that won't make it go away.

It's baked right into the design of the American government. You can't abolish it with 3rd party votes and wishful thinking. It would require a complete change in how representatives are chosen.

Proof of this is in how 2 parties formed spontaneously almost immediately after the revolution, and we have always had 2 parties, when one collapses, a single new party always takes its place.

I understand that neither current party represents your interests, but you either need to pick one and fix it, or flail around ineffectually. Those are your only choices.

 

[spat]

Sure, and if and when you vote, as things are right now; you vote D or R or for a candidate that will lose.

Not to mention, if you *do* manage to elect someone, without D or R support they won't be able to get anything done.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Why do you think Trump is a Republican? He’s no Republican. He’s an Independent. He ran as a Republican because if he didn’t, he wouldn’t have had a chance. He would have been a Ralph Nader or a Ross Perot and the only votes he would have gotten was from misguided people who through their votes away siphoning votes away from the candidates closer to him giving the victory to the other party.

 

[GOPerfect]

Why do you think Trump is a Republican? He’s no Republican. He’s an Independent. He ran as a Republican because if he didn’t, he wouldn’t have had a chance. He would have been a Ralph Nader or a Ross Perot and the only votes he would have gotten was from misguided people who through their votes away siphoning votes away from the candidates closer to him giving the victory to the other party.

Bernie Sanders as well. He is no Demoncrat.

 

[GOPerfect]

And, the two party thing we got going on; not a new, modern thing.

Every President since 1852 has been either a Dem or a Rep.

Every congress has been led by one of these two parties since 1856.

 

[pjzwtl]

Why do you think Trump is a Republican? He’s no Republican. He’s an Independent. He ran as a Republican because if he didn’t, he wouldn’t have had a chance. He would have been a Ralph Nader or a Ross Perot and the only votes he would have gotten was from misguided people who through their votes away siphoning votes away from the candidates closer to him giving the victory to the other party.

Actually not for nothing ole Ross may have won if he didn’t drop out jump back in then go all nuts talking about Bush trying to kill him and black helicopters. If my memory is correct before he self destructed he was polling at over 30% in a 3 way race. Of course I believe he didn’t want to win, he and the Bush clan had bad blood.

 

[Robin]

Yep, old Ross didn't want the job, he just hated Bush more than he loved his country and delivered Clinton to the American center stage. We can thank Perot for the curse he placed on this nation that we still live under.
Robin

 

[spat]

And, the two party thing we got going on; not a new, modern thing.

Every President since 1852 has been either a Dem or a Rep.

Every congress has been led by one of these two parties since 1856.

Even before that there were always 2 parties. Since the founding of the republic.

The way our system works there will always be exactly 2 parties, it's built in to how the voting is designed. I don't think the founding fathers realized it at the time, but it's there just the same.

You could dissolve both the D and R parties and imprison all their leaders under RICO, and there would be exactly 2 new parties to take their place within just a couple of years.

To change it you would have to completely revamp how congress and national elections work.

 

[Elwood]

dissolve both the D and R parties and imprison all their leaders under RICO

now we’re on to something. I call it a good start.

 

[ExMember_4526]

So, basically returning to the main theme of this thread, we’re all moving?

There’s for sure nothing we can do to push for more deregulation?

If this happens in the new states we move to, just keep moving?

Once there’s no safe place to move, we all get into serious boating accidents? That’s it? We’re done?

 

[GOPerfect]

So, basically returning to the main theme of this thread, we’re all moving?

There’s for sure nothing we can do to push for more deregulation?

If this happens in the new states we move to, just keep moving?

Once there’s no safe place to move, we all get into serious boating accidents? That’s it? We’re done?

For the most part, yes, we are moving as soon as possible.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I have 10 years left before I’m 55 and eligible to retire from my job. I will not stay here and it isn’t only about guns. I do not want to be taxed to death. To put things into perspective, my parents in Florida pay less than 1000 dollars a year in property taxes. Over here it’s about 10 times that.

 

[GOPerfect]

I have 10 years left before I’m 55 and eligible to retire from my job. I will not stay here and it isn’t only about guns. I do not want to be taxed to death. To put things into perspective, my parents in Florida pay less than 1000 dollars a year in property taxes. Over here it’s about 10 times that.

For me, it is also about demographics.

 

[ExMember_4526]

I have 10 years left before I’m 55 and eligible to retire from my job. I will not stay here and it isn’t only about guns. I do not want to be taxed to death. To put things into perspective, my parents in Florida pay less than 1000 dollars a year in property taxes. Over here it’s about 10 times that.

Yes, the same party that makes regulations on small arms, makes regulations on markets, and it has a negative impact on many of us.

However, I have a lot of points of connection to Florida. In fact, I used to live there

The same efforts for regulations here, are being pushed for there. Not everyone moving there has the same mind set as you and I when it comes to small arms, etc. Demographics change.

At some point, no matter where we move, we will need to ask ourselves what can be done!

 

[spat]

So, basically returning to the main theme of this thread, we’re all moving?

There’s for sure nothing we can do to push for more deregulation?

If this happens in the new states we move to, just keep moving?

Once there’s no safe place to move, we all get into serious boating accidents? That’s it? We’re done?

You are welcome to try riding out the storm, but I wouldn't recommend it.

It sucks leaving your home, but it sucks less now than it will later. I expect I can find someone to buy my place for a reasonable price later this year.

I am not so sure you will be able to do that in 5 years.

And yes, it's probably coming to AZ as well, but moving will at least buy me some time.

There may be an ugly fight coming up, but if I can avoid it for a few more years, I'll take it. All peaceful means of regaining our rights have been nearly exhausted in NY.

Many people have fled Venezuela in the last decade for instance. The ones who left 10 years ago fared much better than the ones who left last year.

It's possible that the ones who stick it out will thrive and be able to rebuild after it hits rock bottom. If they survive. It's also probably the case that the ones who left early will return with more resources available to them, and will be in a better position than the ones who stay.

 

[ExMember_4526]

Got it.

So, it seems, that looking to move ASAP might just be the most proactive measure that one can take. The question becomes where?

Florida can become “Virginia” next year. Georgia was close to becoming “Virginia”.

Where’s the “safest” place?

 

[Marine Cpl]

Got it.

So, it seems, that looking to move ASAP might just be the most proactive measure that one can take. The question becomes where?

Florida can become “Virginia” next year. Georgia was close to becoming “Virginia”.

Where’s the “safest” place?

Alaska

 

[ExMember_4526]

Ha, what’s your reasoning?

I personally love the heat and am cold when it gets below 75...

 

[Marine Cpl]

Ha, what’s your reasoning?

I personally love the heat and am cold when it gets below 75...

It’s the last American frontier. You can get free land there hundreds of miles from civilization. There will be no police there to enforce gun laws. You can set up a whole compound with like minded families.

 

[ExMember_4526]

It’s the last American frontier. You can get free land there hundreds of miles from civilization. There will be no police there to enforce gun laws. You can set up a whole compound with like minded families.

With all due respect, are you familiar with the cost of goods in certain parts of Alaska?

And the economy? What market activity is present, that can facilitate the growth of industry, etc in these isolated, rural areas?

And as more people move there, with the growth of a developing economy, there’s no guarantee that all moving in will be “like minded”.

And I assure you that Alaska has a LE presence.

For now, Alaska has some of the least unconstitutional (although still unconstitutional) laws in the nation (like AZ). But that’s for now!

 

[GOPerfect]

With all due respect, are you familiar with the cost of goods in certain parts of Alaska?

And the economy? What market activity is present, that can facilitate the growth of industry, etc is these isolated, rural areas?

And as more people move there, with the growth of a developing economy, there’s no guarantee that all moving in will be “like minded”.

And I assure you that Alaska has a LE presence.

For now, Alaska has some of the least unconstitutional (although still unconstitutional) laws in the nation (like AZ). But that’s for now!

My wife and I have also thought about Alaska. I have been there many times.

I do not need a strong economy per say, I would be retired with three different pensions.

As for the LE presence, outside of the cities and bigger towns, very few and far between.

 

[Marine Cpl]

There are places so remote that the state police have to respond via bush planes. And if you live a couple hours out of a big city, state police are very far and few in between.

 

[Robin]

Why are my spidey senses tingling?!?!?!?!?
Robin