I Put An H3 Buffer In My AR

[UltraT]

... and I'm not really seeing any downside. I have a 16" barrel with carbine gas length and an adjustable gas block. I was running a standard carbine buffer before and I wanted to try something heavier. I got the H3 since I could then make the other in between weights from the two. I put it in the other day without touching the gas block, and it cycled totally fine. Ejection went from 4 o'clock to 3. I opened up the gas a little to err on the side of reliabiliy (back to 4 o'clock ejection), but I might just move it back closer to 3 to have a smoother recoil impulse.

Are there any downsides to a heavier buffer that I'm missing? I don't use underpowered ammo so that's not an issue, the heavier buffer should increase unlocking time on my high dwell time rifle, it should in theory keep the chamber cleaner, and it provides more mass behind the BCG to fully seat/lock the bolt under heavily fouled conditions.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

If anything, close the gas block and run a lighter buffer and a lighter bcg. That will mitigate recoil.

A heaver buffer will add recoil simply cause it is a moving mass. (Mass x velocity.....every action has an equal and opposite reaction idea.....)

Running a heavy buffer and adding gas is really putting you back where you started only you have a heavier moving mass.

Aheavy huffer it to be used to cure problems....many created with shorter dwell times due to shorter barrels etc etc. no need for them in a properly designed system.

 

[Podmonkey]

Yeah, I agree. I thought the goal was to run the lightest possible buffer that will still time the action properly. Needing heavy buffers is is sign of an over gassed action right?

 

[Eddie Gunks]

Needing heavy buffers is is sign of an over gassed action right?

It is a sign of some underlying problem.

If it aint broke dont fix it.

 

[UltraT]

If anything, close the gas block and run a lighter buffer and a lighter bcg. That will mitigate recoil.

A heaver buffer will add recoil simply cause it is a moving mass. (Mass x velocity.....every action has an equal and opposite reaction idea.....)

Running a heavy buffer and adding gas is really putting you back where you started only you have a heavier moving mass.

Aheavy huffer it to be used to cure problems....many created with shorter dwell times due to shorter barrels etc etc. no need for them in a properly designed system.

Yeah, I agree. I thought the goal was to run the lightest possible buffer that will still time the action properly. Needing heavy buffers is is sign of an over gassed action right?

Except that you guys are ignoring the fact that if you go lighter you would exacerbate the faster unlocking time from the 16" bbl+carbine gas length combo, increase the cycling speed giving the mag less time to present, and have less mass helping you drive the bolt home under adverse conditions.

I'm saying that with a heavy buffer I have all the positives of extra mass and slower cycling for reliability, and also a smoother recoil impulse on top of that.

 

[Podmonkey]

Except that you guys are ignoring the fact that if you go lighter you would exacerbate the faster unlocking time from the 16" bbl+carbine gas length combo, increase the cycling speed giving the mag less time to present, and have less mass helping you drive the bolt home under adverse conditions.

I'm saying that with a heavy buffer I have all the positives of extra mass and slower cycling for reliability, and also a smoother recoil impulse on top of that.

Like I said, as light as will time the gun properly. But like @Bullet Guy said, timing via the buffer is a band aid. Should be done at the gas port, or elswhere in the gas system. Manufactures get lazy, even my beloved Daniel Defense, and rely on hard cycling to enhance reliability and use the heavier buffers to balance it out. My DD just came with an H1 though. Works quite well.

 

[Frankly]

If you read ten year old threads on AR15.com you may run out to get a heavier buffer... but these things get refined over time, you don't see the best competition shooters going heavier... they go lighter with buffer, BCG, and gas.

 

[UltraT]

Like I said, as light as will time the gun properly. But like @Bullet Guy said, timing via the buffer is a band aid. Should be done at the gas port, or elswhere in the gas system. Manufactures get lazy, even my beloved Daniel Defense, and rely on hard cycling to enhance reliability and use the heavier buffers to balance it out. My DD just came with an H1 though. Works quite well.

To each their own, I prefer the slower cycling so far. And the added mass is giving you more reliability in general.

 

[UltraT]

If you read ten year old threads on AR15.com you may run out to get a heavier buffer... but these things get refined over time, you don't see the best competition shooters going heavier... they go lighter with buffer, BCG, and gas.

Race guns are different, those guys want low recoil AND fast cyclic times for pure speed.

 

[Podmonkey]

If you read ten year old threads on AR15.com you may run out to get a heavier buffer... but these things get refined over time, you don't see the best competition shooters going heavier... they go lighter with buffer, BCG, and gas.

That's the original way to do it. Buffer and gas wise anyway. That said I don't really care what the comp guys are doing. I'm not interested in game guns. I want whats works in the field, in less than ideal conditions.

 

[Frankly]

That's the original way to do it. Buffer and gas wise anyway. That said I don't really care what the comp guys are doing. I'm not interested in game guns. I want whats works in the field, in less than ideal conditions.

You have an adjustable gas block. Regardless of buffer weight and BCG, turn the gas down until it fails to cycle your ammo. Open it up half to full turn for the softest action. If you're going into colder weather with lighter crappier ammo open it up another turn so it's somewhat over gassed.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

To each their own, I prefer the slower cycling so far. And the added mass is giving you more reliability in general.

Hold on. Adding a hb does not make it more reliable.

They are extremely reliable when set up in the factory configuration (given high quality within spec manufactureed parts). You could possibly decrease reliablibility getting away from the original design.

again, You may not really be gaining a smoother impulse due to the extra moving mass that you have imparted into the sytem.

A hb buffer was designed to battle problems that were created from short barrel guns. When I say shorter barrel I mean 11 1/2 inch. The 16 inch carbine system works perfectly. Another reason for heavy buffer is to combat bolt bounce. Bolt bounce is only in select fire weapons......with SHORTER barrels.

Just for fun I built an M4 select fire weapon. 14 1/2 inch barrel carbine gas system. I added an adjustable gas key I have turned the gas down to the point that It will not run without a suppressor. With the suppressor it does not move. It has zero recoil. It is extremely reliable. it eats all Ammo I have ever used (super sonic ammo). Obviously the reliability is a function of having the suppressor installed. It does not suffer from bolt bounce.

 

[spat]

That said I don't really care what the comp guys are doing. I'm not interested in game guns. I want whats works in the field, in less than ideal conditions.

So get an AK ?

 

[kev74]

So get an AK ?

Oooh....

 

[UltraT]

Hold on. Adding a hb does not make it more reliable.

They are extremely reliable when set up in the factory configuration (given high quality within spec manufactureed parts). You could possibly decrease reliablibility getting away from the original design.

I've already made my point on this. I'm saying reliability (at least in theory, I haven't tested it) would be increased since you're slowing cyclic time which gives the mag more time to present a new round, and you're adding more mass that is helping slam the bolt into the correct lock position. Also I've heard that slowing the unlock time causes less gas to enter the chamber so it may reduce fouling somewhat. All good things. Why would reliability decrease if I'm using appropriately pressured ammo?

again, You may not really be gaining a smoother impulse due to the extra moving mass that you have imparted into the sytem.

Well, it should be a smoother impulse since it's slowing the cyclic time. I at least perceived it as smoother.