Is 300 Blackout that good, a gimmick, and what are advantages??

[BR3ND0]

Hey fellas,

Being that I assembled 4 AR’s for myself now, all in 5.56. I decided im gonna build another lower. But get a diff caliber or upper.

Everyone suggests the 300 Blackout. But why ?? I thought it was catchy but is it the good. Ballistically. I thought they were just very suppressor friendly so they become the cool guy tactical weekend warrior round.

Can you all catch me up to speed on this caliber. Best barrel length choices?
Is ammo still pricey?
Thanks

 

[Edwardteach72]

***edit*** I guess I'll contribute a little. Dont waste your time or money, look into 6.5 grendel or 6.8spcii

 

[Saltwater60]

I did 6.8 spcII. Haven’t shot it yet, but ballistically way better than 300 BO for anything other than short barreled or suppressed subsonic rounds. I agree stay away fro 300 BO and the ammo is the same price.

 

[kev74]

@meketrefe in 5...4...3...2...

 

[Bustedknees]

nobody seems to like the 7.62 x 39 anymore, but it will be my next if I do another build..

 

[meketrefe]

"Everyone" can jump off a bridge and are you going to follow them?

The advantage of the blackout is if you have some 30 caliber bullets you want to waste and don't know how
and don't even want to buy another mag or bolt (bad practice since bolts should be dedicated) and you might
have lots of 223 brass and lots of time to make it because it isn't cheap ammo.
And you don't mind the poor ballistics but you want to get rid of those surplus 30 caliber bullets, anyway.
then the whisper, also known as blackout might be ok for you.

The 223 is a ballistically superior round so unless you want to downgrade I suggest you look for something with more bite
if you want to do some serious hunting or something. If your area doesn't allow 22 caliber for dear then use
the shotgun or simply go for a well proven economical alternative.

Oh but what about SBR? Well compare 77gr blackhills tmk with the blackout and tell me. You see, the
blackout cult will not take the time to do a fair comparison with top shelve 223 ammo, they only pick the
Vietnam era 55gr fmj rounds and such. BTW 77gr black hills is used by several units in socom as well as
the modern service rounds. for everything else a 62gr TTSX will do well or even the 64gr winchester PP that
is an amazing patrol / defensive rounds for those in LE or not.

Do want to hit something? stick to top shelve quality 223.

Also if you are going to reload the 7.62x39 is a better choice with more power given you don't mind those
kind of trajectories. But it is a much better choice. At least you can pump it using brass and for practice
you have steel. Hybrid barrels and chambers can use 308 expander button to shoot both .310 and 30 cal bullets.

Another cat is the 30 herret from a 6.8 case. A lot more power. It just needs a magazine with rebated ribs.

Or just look at the 6.8 spcII itself. that is a decent upgrade from 223. A proven killer where the Blackout has failed. Like stout large game / large hogs. Go to the 6.8 or hunting forums not AR15 mambo jambo.

I hope this helps.

 

[meketrefe]

BTW... if one wants one of the best calibers ever made for the AR15 I am going to sell 2 of the barrels I got
for the 6.5BR. these are Krieger 5R barrels.

the 6.5BR is the 6mmBR to be loaded and shot from the AR15. It produces around 300fps mroe than the grendel
so it is in between the creedmore and the grendel but from an AR15 not a AR10 type.

Just to give you an idea.... the BR can push a 123gr bullet past 2700fps from a 20" barrel using barely 31gr of H4897

For everything else there is the 35 Gunner. The big game wacker for the AR15.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

You goin to war? You gonna shoot past 100 yards? If not who cares about superior ballistics? Shoot what you find fun. I get that in NY you can't have cans but 300 BLK is way fun with a can and subsonics. I just loaded up a bunch. It's also fun with supersonics. I'm just waiting for the 400 whisper now.

 

[Marine Cpl]

A 110 gr .300 BO bullet goes 2375. Not too shabby within 100 yards. It's going at the same velocity as a 7.62x39 with a 123 gr at the muzzle.

The 7.62x39 has been proven to be deadly and accurate up to 300 yards. 13 grains isn't going to make a difference on a human body.

Other calibers have more range but average combat engagements are within 150 yards as proven in Iraq. The exception to this is if you are engaging enemies from mountaintop to mountaintop like they do in Afghanistan. That'll never happen in the US.

All these benchrest warriors here that put scopes on everything aren't ever going to engage targets that shoot back at them at distances over 150 yards. Even during a revolution.

If it's a caliber you'd like for plinking and hunting in places that don't allow .223, go for it.

 

[meketrefe]

You goin to war? You gonna shoot past 100 yards? If not who cares about superior ballistics? Shoot what you find fun. I get that in NY you can't have cans but 300 BLK is way fun with a can and subsonics. I just loaded up a bunch. It's also fun with supersonics. I'm just waiting for the 400 whisper now.

You goin to war? I hope not.

You gonna shoot past 100 yards? Of course, otherwise I will stick to the shotgun.

If not who cares about superior ballistics? I care about better ballistics. Score shooting cares about ballistics. Many hunters care about ballistics? varmint / predator hunters care about ballistics? ....In fact, I don't know many people that do not care about ballistics. My wife doesn't care about ballistics.

I am glad you have fun with subsonic loads. That is the only reason I bought the whisper many years ago and way before they rebranded this as the blackout.
But almost any pistol caliber is a subsonic caliber, many with more grain and power at lower cost. Specially when 30 cal using match bullets.
Like 40s&W one can shoot 240gr inexpensive value packs.
or 38 super with 170gr 9mm steel ringers.
Or what about 45 caliber with 280gr ?

So many great subsonic options. some compatible with the side/carry gun.

 

[meketrefe]

A 110 gr .300 BO bullet goes 2375. Not too shabby within 100 yards. It's going at the same velocity as a 7.62x39 with a 123 gr at the muzzle.

The 7.62x39 has been proven to be deadly and accurate up to 300 yards. 13 grains isn't going to make a difference on a human body.

Other calibers have more range but average combat engagements are within 150 yards as proven in Iraq. The exception to this is if you are engaging enemies from mountaintop to mountaintop like they do in Afghanistan. That'll never happen in the US.

All these benchrest warriors here that put scopes on everything aren't ever going to engage targets that shoot back at them at distances over 150 yards. Even during a revolution.

If it's a caliber you'd like for plinking and hunting in places that don't allow .223, go for it.

The 7.62x39 will push the 110gr bullet to 2600fps at 54k psi. with a winchester, fio or lapua brass reload.
So we cannot compare the whisper blackout with the 7.62x39, only the steel cased fmj and for anything other than plinking or certain defense those
are too stout bullets. the soft points are also so so.
The 7.62x39 has a nice 154gr that is the wolf I think. If one is going to shoot at 2100-2200 at least send a decent bullet.

The reason the 7.62x39 was phased out was because of the lack of speed at impact and trajectory.

keep in mind that most bullets in small caliber will not work well below the 2100fps threshold and the ones that work a tad better are fragmentation
bullets that are not designed for that (some match ) with unpredicatable results. There are a few specialty ones but also the SD is too low for to
also sacrifice in impact speed. So many trade offs.

The blackout is for people who might have a reason to burn 30 caliber bullets like a bulk truck load of them. But otherwise it is a light for caliber
round below others in terms of ballistical efficiency and not only external but also terminal when we talk about light for bore bullets that are originally reserved for varmints and 30 carbine.

That is why the 7.62x39 got displaced from the major armies. You know the x39 will fail in penetration and the blackout even worse.
lack of penetration and deflection is a risk.

As a design is horrible. the freebore is too long, short neck for certain bullets and why it is not accurate nor consistent. In this respect the x39 is better. The 223 is light years ahead of both in this respect. look at the design, it doesn't follow any directives of any modern high performing round. (accuracy included)

enough about the BO. This horse is so beaten it is a liquid.

 

[Marine Cpl]

The 7.62x39 goes 2008 fps at 100 yards with a 123 gr bullet. It has killed plenty at that low velocity and at even lower velocities at further distances in countless combat engagements throughout history.

Sure, a faster bullet is better, but it still kills and does so well at that low velocity. The .300 Barack Obama at 13 less grains would be no different.

One has to look at actual combat statistics rather than paper ballistics and numbers that don't mean anything to the human body.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

Yeah, i have one.

it is a suppressed, 8inch, select fire.

It is awesome......

Just sayin’.

 

[BR3ND0]

nobody seems to like the 7.62 x 39 anymore, but it will be my next if I do another build..

I would love to. But it seems only two rifles (CMMG Mutant and i think they primary weapons upper ) are the only 2 semi reliable rifles for the round. But thats my top choice

I do wanna build a 6.8 Spc. But its def gonna be 16-18” barrel.. buts thats def in future

By ballistics i guess i shoulda stated more accuracy. How is grouping and target shooting, but seeing ammo prices. I think im def gonna pass.

I’ll be honest. Im all about this new 350 Legend cartridge. Lol

Wanted to get info off of 300 BO owners. Cuz i felt its just a round that never caught on ....

 

[dsdmmat]

I have quite a few 300BLK, a fun caliber to shoot. Ring gongs out at 200 yards regularly, easy to reload for, the kids like to shoot them. My 5 and 7 year old 2nd cousins got to shoot one of them down in PA. They literally had a blast with it.

Depends on what you want it for really. Most of my blackouts are sighted in at 10 yards because they are set up to use inside the house. 115 grain Barnes TACX bullets loaded in them for things that go bump in the night.

If you know someone who likes to shoot and is recoil sensitive the 300BLK gives them a chance to enjoy shooting a 30 caliber gun.

The brass is basically free with all the range pickups. Takes less powder than a 223 and launches cheap 308 bullets accurately.

Do what you want. Everyone on here has an opinion and most of them think theirs don’t stink. The 300BLK is not for hunting past 200 yards but it will kill anything you have to inside the house.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

You goin to war? I hope not.

You gonna shoot past 100 yards? Of course, otherwise I will stick to the shotgun.

If not who cares about superior ballistics? I care about better ballistics. Score shooting cares about ballistics. Many hunters care about ballistics? varmint / predator hunters care about ballistics? ....In fact, I don't know many people that do not care about ballistics. My wife doesn't care about ballistics.

I am glad you have fun with subsonic loads. That is the only reason I bought the whisper many years ago and way before they rebranded this as the blackout.
But almost any pistol caliber is a subsonic caliber, many with more grain and power at lower cost. Specially when 30 cal using match bullets.
Like 40s&W one can shoot 240gr inexpensive value packs.
or 38 super with 170gr 9mm steel ringers.
Or what about 45 caliber with 280gr ?

So many great subsonic options. some compatible with the side/carry gun.

I'd venture to say most people on here don't shoot past 100 yards, score shoot or hunt. If it goes fast and accurate enough out to 100 yards people will be happy. As far as pills the 300 blk has such a wide range of weights that you'll find something you like to load them with. None of the pistol rounds even come close to having that type of weight range. For subs I use the Berrry's plated 220 grainers. They work just fine.

 

[meketrefe]

I'd venture to say most people on here don't shoot past 100 yards, score shoot or hunt. If it goes fast and accurate enough out to 100 yards people will be happy. As far as pills the 300 blk has such a wide range of weights that you'll find something you like to load them with. None of the pistol rounds even come close to having that type of weight range. For subs I use the Berrry's plated 220 grainers. They work just fine.

9mm(35 caliber) has more weight ranges. Not only that, you have light for caliber bullets that have better terminal performance because of both the extra section and the teminal design like pistol bullets that are designed to work well at slower inpact thresholds.
There is a place for the BO given ones preferences and circumstances but there are so many great compact and easy rounds that do so nuch better.
Lets say one cannot hunt with the 22 caliber.
The 6mm is gives a huge boost snd it is so easy that a cave men can do it.
IMO the 6mm should be the service caliber too.

 

[@thewheels]

look into 6.5 grendel or 6.8spcii

^^^This^^^
I went with the Grendel and am liking it so far.
Also keeping my eye on the 350 Legend ammo availability/pricing. If it catches on, I'm in.

 

[Edwardteach72]

^^^This^^^
I went with the Grendel and am liking it so far.
Also keeping my eye on the 350 Legend ammo availability/pricing. If it catches on, I'm in.

Yup after listening to the subject matter experts and what not I realized when it comes to 300bo a few things.


If it's for just plinking around at the range blasting off mag dumps or trying to make cloverleafs at whatever distance 5.56/223 works better and cheaper. (Same with 7.62x39ll

If it's for hunting deer or larger, it barely makes enough energy for consistent ethical shots and the 6.5 and 6.8 do it much better (oh weird so does 7.62x39)

If it's for the buffalo (cause for some reason all guns have to be for that?) 5.56 again better and will be easy to find

 

[Uzi]

So many threads asking the exact same question. 300aac blackout shines in a pistol configuration where it performs better than .223/5.56. It doesn't suck, it's not useless and there is more than one type of 300 blackout ammo (I know crazy isn't it?). If you plan on buying a rifle chambered in 300 blackout and don't know much about it, Do more research because that makes no sense in almost any application. Hell, this question has been asked like a million times on this forum, nobody uses the search function for some reason.

 

[BDinPutnam]

Any caliber I dont own must by definition suck.

 

[kev74]

Any caliber I dont own must by definition suck.

Or... I need every caliber I don't have!

 

[Bustedknees]

Any caliber I dont own must by definition suck.

No,,, that's just another reason to buy another gun..

 

[meketrefe]

Any caliber I dont own must by definition suck.

Like it sucks not to have it?
Along with ones private range?

 

[meketrefe]

The blackout is the 300 whisper renamed for the internet and marketing campaigns.
It is from the whisper line designed by JD jones from SSK Industries.
It was designed for subsonic use so non wonder why it sucks ass in the supersonic world no matter what the marketing guys say.
Like uzi said this is all well documented in the books and in threads this horse has been beaten to a pulp.
Yet people continue to buy the uppers w/o knowing what they are buying.
BO upper **as seen on TV.
...
You even have youtubers shooting the Barack at 1000 yards and saying it is capable of that.
22lr too I guess.

Unreal the power of marketing, social medium and BS. A lot of people just don't give a fuck about learning some basic ballistics before listening to the sales folks.

 

[Podmonkey]

I actually do think 300 BLK is a gimmick. The only thing it's really good for is suppressed use but as per MAC's video the ballistics of the subsonic 220gr loads are pathetic. The super sonic loads very closely approximates the 7.92x33 K round but again, 7.62x39nis slightly more effective and waaaaaaay cheaper. The super sonic 300 BLKs do have more energy at close range compared to 5.56 but as the distance increases the 5.56 surpasses it again. If you want an AR15 in a chambering more powerful than 5.56 there are myriad other choices superior to the 300BLK, chief among them the 6.8 SPC which costs about the same per round.

 

[C3D]

6.8 if you want long distance accuracy.

.223 Wilde for 300 yards and less.

 

[Jem45472]

300 is great for sbr, or an ar pistol. 16" and longer I'd probably go 6.8.

 

[meketrefe]

J. D. Jones - Wikipedia

Whisper (cartridge family) - Wikipedia

Cartridges

 

[meketrefe]

300 is great for sbr, or an ar pistol. 16" and longer I'd probably go 6.8.

The 6.8 is better both in pistol and rifle form. A lot more bite with less weight.