Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
A 9mm+p+and a half.
Is there any reason NOT to get a 40 S&W? Any guns to avoid?
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Jaywmustang
.308 Win
I thought the 40 was created cause the fbi or whoever was having a hard time qualifying with the 10mm
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Correct. They created a load (.40 S&W) that emulated the watered down 10mm load so that it can be loaded in smaller guns. That load however turned out to be no better than a good 9mm load. After years of resistance to the 9mm and change in leadership, they finally lost face and changed to 9mm.
They are still holding strong with the hollow point theory though and saving face. Now they picked a 9mm load (Hornady Critical Duty) that barely expands and penetrates deep. (Past 20 inches in some tests and expanding to no bigger than a .40 or 10mm FMJ).
The FBI also gave agents 9mm pistols if they could not qualify with a 40S&W, prior to switching to 9mm
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Target
6.5 Creedmoor
Local road rage incident. one dude got shot multiple times in the torso with a .40
He's in critical condition.
40s suck!
If it were a 45, he would be ded. D-E-D ded!
He's in critical condition.
40s suck!
If it were a 45, he would be ded. D-E-D ded!
Jaywmustang
.308 Win
The one in Oswego?
Target
6.5 Creedmoor
yes.
I've heard that the shooter was stabbed prior to firing his sidearm but that has not been written in the newspapers.
I apologize for making light of the situation
I've heard that the shooter was stabbed prior to firing his sidearm but that has not been written in the newspapers.
I apologize for making light of the situation
Jaywmustang
.308 Win
No need to aplolgize to me lol. I don’t know the shooter but I have seen him around Oswego. I haven’t heard much about it, except OPD charging him with attempted murder. I heard both people involved got out of their vehicle to argue or fight twice.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
That goes to show why you shouldn't get a .40 S&W. You get more recoil for no added benefit over a 9mm. If you can handle it, you'd be able to handle the 9mm even better.
But some here will puff their chests and say, "I'm a man. I can handle the recoil!" Yet nobody here will buy rounds in their caliber that say "extra recoil" on the box.
ArmedCorgi
.475 A&M Magnum
Yeah, but what box of ammo ever says "extra recoil"?
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
The one that says .40 S&W.
ArmedCorgi
.475 A&M Magnum
Now that's just hate speech.
FrankenCub
.338 Win Mag
The recoil on the .40 isn't bad 
There's some who can't even shoot a 9mm. I'd be more inclined to say the FBI or LEOs don't shoot enough to shoot the .40 well.
Recoil with an Encore or Savage handgun in let's say, 308W, now that's heavy recoil.
There's some who can't even shoot a 9mm. I'd be more inclined to say the FBI or LEOs don't shoot enough to shoot the .40 well.Recoil with an Encore or Savage handgun in let's say, 308W, now that's heavy recoil.
I shot an IPSC stage in Pheonix or Tucson(cannot recall now) behind Robby Leatham when he was running the 9x25 Dillon. I was the next shooter and was watching him to try and get some tips. When his gun went off it it felt like I was standing next to a 308 with a muzzle brake. His gun didn't move though it just cycled, no muzzle flip just pure silky smooth cycling.9x25 Dillon.
9mm +p+++++++++++8=====D~~~
No it does not... I believe I could meet the FBI qualification with about any pistol or caliber. I guess I am confused how you think you know what I should or shouldnt get.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Sure you can meet the FBI qualification with the .40. That isn't the point. Your score would be better with the 9mm just the same as it would be even better with a .22lr. It's basic physics. More recoil slows down time between follow up shots. Less recoil produces a faster sight picture.
A .40 S&W hollow point doesn't perform better than a 9mm one. It's a myth. They both perform similar. They both penetrate within inches of one another. And they both expand within a millimeter of one another. Some 9mm loads even surpass both factors compared to some .40 loads. It all depends on the load. And depending on the load that does better, it isn't by much. It's all negligible and the human body wouldn't know the difference. You can research that.
After researching that and seeing the facts, you can discount it and just lie to yourself and say it isn't true. If you go that route, in the end, when you pick up a box of ammo at the store, you'd be deliberately choosing the one that says, "Enhanced Recoil."
BDinPutnam
.475 A&M Magnum
Pro tip-
Avoid anything with "Patent Pending: Hindu-Kush" engraved on the slide.
Avoid anything with "Patent Pending: Hindu-Kush" engraved on the slide.
I dont even know where to start with this.... But, imo your 9mm that you carry is plenty capable and by no means you should think you are carrying a caliber that is too weak. So, dont feel that you need to justify your decision to carry 9mm.
I do not agree that I would score the FBI test any better with a 9 than a 40. The test is scored only by a total of points based on hits alone, you do not score higher by being faster. Not a question for Physics to answer either. Can you quantify the difference in shot times between the two calibers? Have you ever compared both calibers back to back to see if the difference is significant?
I agree with you that it is a myth that one hollow point caliber is a better performer than another. They use the same technology after all. So its fair to say that regardless of caliber a certain % of expansion can be expected. So a bullet that is bigger to begin with can experience more expansion. Now being that the 2 calibers in discussion here are not that much different in size the expansion advantage may not be much. If pistols are used in life and death situations any edge you can get is a good thing imo.
Lets discus the differences in size between the two. You say its only 1 mm and that is true prior to expansion, but for simplicity of discussion lets look at the math considering no expansion. Imo a good discussion because the only bullet size your guaranteed is the size it leaves that barrel at. Hollow points sometimes fail to expand even in ballistic gel witch is an ideal medium to create expansion. By the numbers the 40 is 1 mm larger than the 9 in diameter, may not seem like much but 40 is 11% larger in diameter. To me an 11% advantage is significant. This still does not tell the whole story, comparing diameters of bullets is pointless since a diameter is is only the measurement going through the center of the bullet. A better way of comparing bullet size is the cross sectional area since it measures the amount of area a bullet affects the target. The 1mm larger diameter creates a cross sectional area that is 31% greater. Research is difficult since "real world" data includes too many variables to conduct a good study being that there is no control in the experiment. But, I have personally shot the same items with 9,40, and 45 and can say that I could clearly note that the larger bullets created more damage. No, I did not shoot at any human bodies but have shot 2-by-4s, 4-by-4s and various thickness metal plates. Would the human body notice the difference? I cant answer pretend to know the answer to that. But, more damage to the target is more damage.
The "enhanced recoil" thing is kinda silly for a few reasons. Thats like saying when choosing a truck to tow with are you buying the one with more "power" or the "gas guzzler". If we want to talk physics a round that has more recoil also hits harder, remember the opposite and equal reaction. No free lunch there. All that crap aside when comparing the two calibers in the real world the big agencies using 9mm also chose +p loadings and some +p+, and these loads have more recoil than standard pressure loads. Why do they choose the +p loads, are they wrong? In my experience the recoil difference between the 147 grain +p HST that I use is not that much less than the 40s I have shot back to back with.
If you believe 9mm is a better caliber for YOU, no argument form me. All the research, personal experience, and data I have seen leads me to the opinion that caliber choice is a compromise and there is no "magic bullet" .
MothMan
.338 Win Mag
Good video using shooting incident statistics. FWIW I shoot .40 cal.