Knife making.. anyone here?

[capitalcrew]

I've been looking at knives more frequently lately, especially here the knife area seems to be pretty active. So that got me thinking about making knives. I know you can get started with an old file. Has anyone done this? Or is anyone here more advanced than that? I would really like to give it a try this winter.

 

[SigSweet]

I'm interested as well
Was watching a discovery show the other night where the guy made a sword as a xmas gift for his families secret Santa. Was pretty cool seeing the old school blacksmithing techniques along with all the craftsmanship in the details.

 

[carpediem]

I bought my daughter a knife hand made in the Hudson Valley somewhere, and that maker (who has passed away I was told) used the blade of an old two-man crosscut saw. It is a very nice knife.

 

[Podmonkey]

It always cool to see blades made from repurposed items. I watched a couple youtube vids of a guy making knives from old files.

 

[camper4lyfe]

The thought has crossed my mind more than a few times. Sadly I don't have the space to do something like that.

 

[Criticalt]

I have a crude coal forge made from a truck wheel, a shop vac hose and a small fan.
Im just getting started, made a few bad knives but I have a good teacher so things should get better.
I still don't have a proper anvil, they arent cheap.
Im using the flat top of my vise as an anvil for now.

 

[Acer-m14]

back in the days of the late 70's yearly 80's i made knifes out of files right in high school metal shop ... to drill the holes for the handle rivets or screws
was a pain .. red hot file tang and 5 to 10 drill bits .. finally 2 holes . .. only problem with files is there brittle and rust .. but fun to make ..
specially in high school .. lets campaign to bring this art back to schools

 

[masterswimmer]

Great show on The History Channel called Forged in Fire. Been watching it for a couple of years now. You should catch the previous shows on On Demand.

 

[capitalcrew]

Criticalt, that's awesome! I was thinking more along the lines of buying ground steel that isn't yet hardened and grinding/filing the shape, then hardening. I hadn't even considered needing an anvil for anything, but I actually do have one.

Acer, you needed to normalize the steel in the file first. By heating and letting it cool that fast you were most likely hardening the steel. You have to allow it to cool slowly, then it would be more workable. Then you heat it up and oil quench it, followed by tempering. You don't have any pictures of those by chance, or even still have the knives do you?

I think I've seen one episode of that actually!

 

[Criticalt]

Spring steel is best according to my mentor. Literally steel from car springs. Either leaf springs or coil, coil are best.
If the steel is already hardened, like a file, you need to heat to red hot and let slowly cool. Then it will be soft again. Then reheat, shape and reharden by heating and quenching in oil.
Properly hardened steel is near impossible to drill or shape.

 

[Criticalt]

Shaping metal is easy, shsping metal with no inclusions is more difficult. One inclusion can weaken a knife to the point of breaking.
Thats why you need to be careful buying handforged knives. If someone is selling hand forged knives for under $300, id be very cautious. A guy can bang out 20 decent looking knives in one day that a full of inclusions. To make a good, inclusion free knife, the same guy can make 1.
Also when buying knives there is a big difference between handmade and handforged.
Handmade is cut from sheet metal and shaped, handforged is heated and hammered.
Alot of people buy handmade knives for 80 bucks and are disappointed they arent hammered steel.
A good craftsman takes 10 hours or more to make a good knife, so they are expensive.

 

[capitalcrew]

I've got some old leaf springs from the tbird I'm restoring, but I'm hesitant to cut them up honestly. I mean, they're original 55 tbird springs lol. Even though I'm not using them it just seems wrong to me.

I'm going to try to start with a file and see what happens, then go from there. I have a way of doing something "okay" a few times then moving on to a new project.

 

[Robin]

Using car springs is okay but you should try to research what manufacturers are using what steel. A few degrees can make a big difference when you do your final tempering on steel of unknown content.
Robin

 

[capitalcrew]

I just went ahead and ordered 36" of 1/8" o1 tool steel. Might as well dive right in and see what happens. I figured there is enough for three or four tries there, depending on the size of course. Should be fun!

 

[Robin]

Cap, I have used 01, making five knives from it. Not forging on an anvil, like with files and car springs, but shaping with saws and grinders. As long as you don't over heat it while grinding it is nice to work with, the trouble for me was the heat treat. Three take a nice edge but were somewhat brittle, two hold a very good edge and are not brittle. I wish I took notes, it seems I am reinventing the wheel differently every time I make one, and don't do it enough to get consistent.
Robby

 

[capitalcrew]

I may send whatever I make out to be great treated. It costs about 10-15 dollars but is a good way to get started and have it done right. I really would like to do it myself though, I just need to figure out how. Or I need to find a cheap little furnace / oven for heat treating if there is such a thing (as a cheap one).

 

[capitalcrew]

Hmm... http://nwct.craigslist.org/tls/5874281748

 

[Tintalieau]

my 2 cents, after you select your steel, having a small toaster oven to heat teat your knife blades. 45m-1 hr at 450 should do the trick for most knives and easier than trying to gauge your temps or use magnets.

 

[capitalcrew]

01 needs to be heated to around 1450 and oil quenched. After that it can be tempered at those temps to lower the hardness slightly and remove the brittleness

 

[Robin]

Temperature accuracy with 01 is critical. Everything I could find on it and the few people I talked with say it is one of the more difficult alloy's, especially for the beginner, and all recommend an oven with accurate temp settings and timers. It is no wonder that the earliest conjurer's of iron and iron to steel were considered wizards and held in such high regard. We take a lot for granted.
Robin

 

[capitalcrew]

I agree, we really do.

I have heat treated o1 once before, i ended up with small stress cracks everywhere. I don' think i broke my edges enough so the internal stresses were very high. It was a much thicker piece than a knife blade though too. We'll see what happens! Learn by doing haha.

 

[masterswimmer]

I learned a little while watching Forged in Fire. The judges seem to recommend 2,000° F then oil quench for tempering. I've never forged so this could be more broad than required for 01.

 

[capitalcrew]

The temperatures vary greatly for different types of steel. You have to follow whatever the specs are for your alloy.

I locked down a small kiln yesterday that I can convert to a oven for heat treating. I'm going to pick up a cheap belt Sander / grinder to get started with.

It should be a fun winter.

 

[capitalcrew]

Down the rabbit hole we go... wheels for a 2x72 grinder ordered, I should pick up the steel this week. I've always wanted one anyways, might as well build one now that I've got an excuse. I already have a 2hp 3p motor for it.

 

[Cooolone]

Anyone use an Induction Kiln?

 

[capitalcrew]

I'm not sure exactly what that is,is it just an electric kiln or is there something different about it?

Drew up what I want to try first yesterday, made a wooden mock of it today to see how it felt. Made some adjustments, might still make some more. Seems to fit my hand well though. Should have the steel for the grinder this week and I'll hopefully get some Welding done on that next week. I'll probably make a separate thread for it, kind of a how to in case anyone is interested.

 

[Criticalt]

It takes alot of practice but eventually you will be able to read the metal and things will get much easier.
Im not there but my buddy is, he makes it look easy.
Im not sure I would start with difficult steel. It can take dozens of knives to even get a decent one. Ive made a few that are fairly good but ive worked probably 30 bad knives.
Part of the fun to me is to take an old piece of steel from the garbage and make something that looks like a knife.
Im much better at door hinges and latches, fireplace pokers, weather vanes and of course horseshoes, thats where I got my start.