freddy
.308 Win
I understand. But what is your opinion?
Legality of "Featureless Rifles" in NYS
- Thread starter Uzi
- Start date
Phazer
.450/400 Nitro Ex
I, on the other hand, accept all types of magazines. Please send them to me and I will send you a letter of acceptance.
Well I have two fixed mag AR's. Both have the FC hook on the catch side and the Prince 50 epoxied on the other side. I didn't think the FC hook was good enough by itself so I did the Prince 50 and epoxy with it. Having said that I would have no issues using the prince 50 with epoxy. And of course I am not a Lawyer so I am not suggesting in any way that I know this is 100% legal.
Doing it that way was good enough for it to get added to my Pistol permit.
Doing it that way was good enough for it to get added to my Pistol permit.
freddy
.308 Win
That says something, the fact that an ATF agent approved of it.
It is clearly and undeniably a fixed mag ar. The issue Willjr has is that even though it is undeniably a fixed mag that you can still with tools convert it back to have the ability to accept a detachable magazine. Hence why I posted that example of a Jet Ski.
freddy
.308 Win
Agreed.
Regardless of how you interpret the law, I would not use an unepoxied bb. Most law enforcement I think would not care, but it's been proven the state police are NOT going to accept that as a fixed mag. Beatable in court, maybe who knows, but I believe the trooper in a bad mood will arrest and charge for it.
I concur with this.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
I'm saying that if they passed such a law with the same exact language, any vehicle with the ability to go over 65 would be illegal.
Uzi
.308 Win
The bullet button is not a good idea in my opinion. Making it slightly more hindering to press an actual button that absolutely allows and is designed to allow and accept a detachable magazine when you press the button, is clearly not legal under our definition. It's function is almost identical to a normal spring release button minus part of it being recessed. It is just a recessed magazine release, that's all. I cannot think of a reason why it would be legal because it was a loophole only for a specific law in california pertaining to their "tool" definition. I was also under the impression that it isn't even legal in california anymore (don't quote me on that).
freddy
.308 Win
Annnd, you are saying a governored jet ski as described by gqllc007 would be illegal, or would not be illegal?
freddy
.308 Win
The prince 50, if I understand it correctly, is a set screw in the mag release button. So if the set screw is loosened/removed then the mag release behaves as designed and releases/accepts mags. The use of the allen wrench separates (physically and legally) the prince 50 from the use of a bullet tip of the bb. Is this correct (best we can tell of course)?
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Take a wild guess. Laws are literal.
That sounds right. Hence why I have epoxy over the set screw and also use the FC hook. Which requires a tool as well. So if you drilled out the set screw after drilling out the epoxy you still can't press the button with the FC hook. You would need another tool for the FC hook
freddy
.308 Win
Do we have a legal precedent for use of the word "ability" that leads you to this interpretation Will?
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
No. No other law has ever been written that way.
freddy
.308 Win
The problem I have with using epoxy is clearing double feeds. I am drawn to the prince 50 or DDs Ranch mag lock because they lock the mag, require a wrench for removal, and can be disabled to clear a feed (and then immediately restored to a mag lock).
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Ability is ability. Not some ability. What's the matter with you guys?
I use a Magpul magazine where the floor plate is removable so you can clear those double feeds
a·bil·i·ty
/əˈbilədē/
noun
- 1. possession of the means or skill to do something: "the manager had lost his ability to motivate the players" synonyms: capacity, capability, potential, potentiality, power, faculty, aptness, facility, wherewithal, means
- 2. talent, skill, or proficiency in a particular area: "a man of exceptional ability" synonyms: talent, skill, expertise, adeptness, aptitude, skillfulness, savoir faire, prowess, mastery, accomplishment, competence, proficiency, dexterity, adroitness, deftness, cleverness, flair, finesse, gift, knack, genius, qualification, resources, know-how
Definition of ability
plural
abilities
1a : the quality or state of being able the ability of the soil to hold water; especially : physical, mental, or legal power to do something a writer's ability to engage the reader's interest did the work to the best of her ability [=as well as she could]b : competence in doing something : skill artistic abilities
- 2 : natural aptitude or acquired proficiency students with different abilities
Definition of -ability
: capacity, fitness, or tendency to act or be acted on in a (specified) way agglutinability
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
That doesn't work if the double feed is on top of the feed lips.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Thanks for the dictionary definition.
So then if something is Fixed then it doesn't have the ability to accept. We have been through this ad nauseum
fixed
/fikst/
adjective
fixed
/fikst/
adjective
- 1. fastened securely in position: "a fixed iron ladder down the port side" synonyms: fastened, secure, fast, firm, riveted, moored, anchored
- 1a : securely placed or fastened : stationaryb (1) : nonvolatile (2) : formed into a chemical compoundc (1) : not subject to change or fluctuation a fixed income (2) : firmly set in the mind a fixed idea (3) : having a final or crystallized form or character (4) : recurring on the same date from year to year fixed holidaysd : immobile, concentrated a fixed stare
Uzi
.308 Win
No, I wouldn't compare them personally.
One was designed to allow magazines to be dropped and switched out while it's installed. The other, designed to never allow a magazine to come out or accept any magazine while it's installed. One also gives the user more options to to grind down the set screw head, fix the treads in the screw hole threads, and also cover the holes with any permanent solution which would easily allow it to never come out unless it was modified and reconstructed like anything on planet earth could be. You could modify a bullet button to do something similar I'd imagine, but If you're going to epoxy a bullet button with a spring in it and stuff, it would make more sense to get one that better serves the definition of the law. The bullet button doesn't serve any definition of the law if you use it as is. I'm not saying don't use it because that's your choice though.
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freddy
.308 Win
'Ability' is a derivative of 'able'. Per the dictionary:
'Able' means "having sufficient power, skill, or resources to do something"
In my opinion, the fixed mag rifles in my safe do not meet this definition. The rifles, as they sit in the safe or on a courtroom table, do not have sufficient power, skill, or resources to accept a detachable magazine. The fixed mag rifles in my safe, without exception, absolutely must have a person that possesses a set of wrenches, knowledge, and turns the correct screw, in the correct direction, and the correct amount to make the rifle accept a detachable magazine. The law solely describes a rifle alone (not a rifle and person with wrenches) as 'accepting a detachable magazine'. The law does not state: "a semi automatic rifle with gunsmith and tools has the ability to accept a detachable magazine". If it did I wouldn't debate your interpretation Will.
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Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
The law doesn't mention that you can "FIX" your magazine. We've been through this already.
It doesn't mention that you can't.
Uzi
.308 Win
Will, it's really funny that you bring that up, because those the two words ability and capability are often used interchangeably, even though they do not mean the same thing exactly which is why I was actually just going to mention this I pulled up which may be in our favor.
"Unlike ability, capability also has a more future oriented meaning ‘“ it has the feature or potential of being developed. Hence, ability is likened to the actual level of something while capability is the potential level."
So if capability shows what it can do, ability shows only what it's able to do at the time. Let me know your thoughts.
"Unlike ability, capability also has a more future oriented meaning ‘“ it has the feature or potential of being developed. Hence, ability is likened to the actual level of something while capability is the potential level."
So if capability shows what it can do, ability shows only what it's able to do at the time. Let me know your thoughts.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Correct. So when you fix it, paint it gold, add diamonds to it, if it still has the ability.....
This is a broken record.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
That's putting a spin on the word "ability". I guess if you can convince a jury then you'd be golden.