Legality of "Featureless Rifles" in NYS

[Uzi]

That's putting a spin on the word "ability". I guess if you can convince a jury then you'd be golden.

Hey man, if we're all so concerned about the definitions, that's what we are supposed to abide by. the two words are not synonyms. I think we should expand on that and not forget the difference of the two, because it's actually a very clear one. I literally do believe that's a good enough argument to be honest, setting aside the other bullshit that we don't need to get into again.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Hey man, if we're all so concerned about the definitions, that's what we are supposed to abide by. I think we should expand on that and not forget the difference of the two, because it's actually a very clear one. I literally do believe that's a good enough argument to be honest, setting aside the other bullshit that we don't need to get into again.

In the end, it's all about what you feel you can defend and whether you are willing to take the risk.

Me personally, I don't worry about it. I had an SKS that had the ability. My point though about all this is how it was written. Everyone else went bonkers defending because they had fixed mag rifles but the truth of it is that deep down they knew what the law said and tried to rationalize a poorly written law.

Í just pointed it out.

 

[reinhardt]

I read all the posts. Some refer to "case law" which I believe means someone has to violate the SAFE ACT in so egregious a manner that a criminal trial would have to be held. All the arguments would be made and a jury would decide the fate of the individual based on how the jury interpreted the law. This would at least give all of us some concrete info on how to abide by this stupid law. Anybody willing to be the defendant?

 

[STS556]

Anybody willing to be the defendant?

We are all taking the chance of becoming a defendant every time we take our neutered MSR's outside.

 

[Jem45472]

If you ask me, the Prince 50 is a glorified bullet button, I'm not confident of staying out of trouble with it unless it was epoxied. Depending on the set screw, the mag will release. The dd's Ranch mag lock needs to be physically taken apart for mag removal, and physically put back together to hold a mag.

 

[gqllc007]

If you ask me, the Prince 50 is a glorified bullet button, I'm not confident of staying out of trouble with it unless it was epoxied. Depending on the set screw, the mag will release. The dd's Ranch mag lock needs to be physically taken apart for mag removal, and physically put back together to hold a mag.

I have epoxied the Prince 50's

 

[dsdmmat]

If you ask me, the Prince 50 is a glorified bullet button, I'm not confident of staying out of trouble with it unless it was epoxied. Depending on the set screw, the mag will release. The dd's Ranch mag lock needs to be physically taken apart for mag removal, and physically put back together to hold a mag.

The prince 50 works much in the same way if you do not install the spring on the mag catch under the mag release button. Then the set screws are the only things holding the magazine securely in the mag well and must be loosened and tightened in order for the magazine to be removed and to lock into place.

 

[Uzi]

If you ask me, the Prince 50 is a glorified bullet button, I'm not confident of staying out of trouble with it unless it was epoxied. Depending on the set screw, the mag will release. The dd's Ranch mag lock needs to be physically taken apart for mag removal, and physically put back together to hold a mag.

They both do the same exact thing, keep the magazine from coming out, and they both need to be "physically taken apart for magazine removal" and "physically put back together to hold a mag". No difference. People that are using springs still with the mag locks are NOT installing them correctly.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I have epoxied the Prince 50's

Why? Without the epoxy it requires a tool to remove the magazine so that the rifle can accept another one.

With the epoxy, it still requires a tool to remove it so that it can accept magazine.

One process takes longer than the other but in the end, the result is the same.

 

[gqllc007]

Why? Without the epoxy it requires a tool to remove the magazine so that the rifle can accept another one.

With the epoxy, it still requires a tool to remove it so that it can accept magazine.

One process takes longer than the other but in the end, the result is the same.

Because I want it known that I was doing everything to comply with the law even though I don't agree with it.
Rumor has it that NYSP visited the DDranch and rumor has it epoxy was allowed. Again we all know that is not in writing.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Because I want it known that I was doing everything to comply with the law even though I don't agree with it.
Rumor has it that NYSP visited the DDranch and rumor has it epoxy was allowed. Again we all know that is not in writing.

The 2nd part of your paragraph wasn't necessary. It is already established that what the NYSP says means nothing.

 

[gqllc007]

The 2nd part of your paragraph wasn't necessary. It is already established that what the NYSP says means nothing.

I also use the FC Hook so if I have the FC Hook, The Prince 50 and the epoxy to fix the magazine.
Which I believe is overkill.

 

[Marine Cpl]

An FC hook can be removed.

If you truly want to comply with the law, build a rifle with a true fixed magazine like the NY 10 that cannot accept a detachable magazine.

Then build a featureless rifle that can.

When the SHTF, swap the upper from the fixed magazine rifle onto the featureless lower.

 

[Uzi]

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A "TRUE FIXED MAGAZINE" THEN IF YOU CAN USE TOOLS!

Skyscrapers are built with tools. Rocket ships are built with tools. AR-15 lowers are built with tools. Full auto's are built with tools. All magazines and conversions are built with tools. It doesn't matter about the use of tools, what matters is what it's ability in its configuration. STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT!

 

[Marine Cpl]

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A "TRUE FIXED MAGAZINE" THEN IF YOU CAN USE TOOLS!

Skyscrapers are built with tools. Rocket ships are built with tools. AR-15 lowers are built with tools. Full auto's are built with tools. All magazines and conversions are built with tools. It doesn't matter about the use of tools, what matters is what it's ability in its configuration. STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT!

Take a deep breath and calm down. There are no laws that say skyscrapers that have the ability to accept another brick.

That point had been debunked already.

 

[Uzi]

If you truly want to comply with the law, build on a rifle with a true fixed magazine like the NY 10 that cannot accept a detachable magazine.

Then build a features rifle that can.

When the SHTF, swap the upper from the fixed magazine rifle onto the featureless lower.

Take a deep breath and calm down. There are no laws that say skyscrapers that have the ability to accept about brick.

Yeah, I will admit, you're getting to me a bit. You're contradicting yourself and make no sense.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Yeah, I will admit, you're getting to me a bit. You're contradicting yourself and make no sense.

No I'm not. I'm staying on the narrative. There are fixed mag lowers built from the ground up that cannot accept a detachable magazine.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Here is one example. I think Bushmaster or DPMS created one too with no opening in the bottom years ago.

 

[reinhardt]

We are all taking the chance of becoming a defendant every time we take our neutered MSR's outside.

Agreed that is a possibility. However I said do something egregious i.e. shocking or appalling so the police have no choice but to arrest you with your msr that you believe to be compliant. See what you're charged with. See if the DA will convene a grand jury. Go to trial and get an guilty/ not guilty verdict. Then we all can move ahead accordingly. These posts regarding buttons and epoxy and pretzel logic workarounds are becoming tedious, trying, time consuming and futile.

 

[Jem45472]

Agreed that is a possibility. However I said do something egregious i.e. shocking or appalling so the police have no choice but to arrest you with your msr that you believe to be compliant. See what you're charged with. See if the DA will convene a grand jury. Go to trial and get an guilty/ not guilty verdict. Then we all can move ahead accordingly. These posts regarding buttons and epoxy and pretzel logic workarounds are becoming tedious, trying, time consuming and futile.

I agree, I'm bowing out of the conversation now. I've had enough safe act fun this year.

 

[Uzi]

No I'll not. I'm staying on the narrative. There are fixed mag lowers built from the ground up that cannot accept a detachable magazine.

Oh, I'm more than well aware of what's on the market. And again, Tools will then allow modifications to a firearm to accept a detachable magazine if you want to construct a gun's ability to accept something. Just because it's harder and takes more time doesn't mean shit under the definition and your interpretation.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Oh, I'm more than well aware of what's on the market. And again, Tools will then allow modifications to a firearm to accept a detachable magazine if you want to construct a gun's ability to accept something. Just because it's harder and takes more time doesn't mean shit under the definition and your interpretation.

Huh?

 

[Marine Cpl]

Now can the lower pictured above accept a detachable magazine? Hope can this lower below accept one?

 

[GOYABEAN]

 

[Uzi]

Huh?

Sorry, my fault there.

By your interpretation, Tools will allow a firearm that does not have the ability to accept a magazine "built from the ground up" to be able to accept one, by means of altering the construction of the firearm however necessary. So, if the firearm was "built from the ground up", not able to accept detachable magazines, then it's literally no different.

By putting a magazine in the magwell and LOCKING IT IN PLACE, which is perfectly LEGAL while building it, I am NOT allowing the gun to accept detachable magazines. However, It could be configured to accept one, so it's not illegal using and repurposing a "detachable magazine" to "build from the ground up" a non detachable magazine. The magazines that hold ammo in those "from the ground up builds", where did they come from? Was it always attached to something?

Finally, just because it's harder to modify or reconstruct something, it doesn't matter. Do you realize that it's not complicated to alter and make a simple firearm from total scratch? Do you realize that the modification difficulty doesn't matter and pertain the law?

 

[Uzi]

Now can the lower pictured above accept a detachable magazine? Hope can this lower below accept one?

Yes it can with tools and modifications, remember?

 

[Marine Cpl]

Yes it can with tools and modifications, remember?

If that is a detachable magazine inserted from the top, yes. If it isn't, no.

 

[meketrefe]

I went with the flintlock AR and I could not be happier.
In the 3 gun matches they need to wait a bit for me to reload but that is ok.

 

[spat]

An FC hook can be removed.

If you truly want to comply with the law, build a rifle with a true fixed magazine like the NY 10 that cannot accept a detachable magazine.

Then build a featureless rifle that can.

When the SHTF, swap the upper from the fixed magazine rifle onto the featureless lower.

I've got an 80% lower sitting downstairs waiting to be finished. Are you saying that is an AW, because after I use enough tools, and add some more parts, it will be An AR that can accept a magazine ?

 

[gqllc007]

If that is a detachable magazine inserted from the top, yes. If it isn't, no.

This can absolutely be converted to a detachable magazine. And this guy can do that My Guns Firearms Manufacturing - Talent, OR
It's just like when I dealt with class 3 weapons. There were rewelds etc. Receivers were cut up with saws and torches. They were then rewelded back together.
Now mind you it will take tools to do it but it does have the ability to accept a detachable magazine. Just not in the state it is right now...which is no different than the fixed magazines discussed here. It will take longer but still doable.