@RBean when saying PL 400 is unconstitutional, Is there not more of a reason then it violets the Second Amendment needed before the Court?
Long Island Gun Cases
- Thread starter RBean
- Start date
@RBean when saying PL 400 is unconstitutional, Is there not more of a reason then it violets the Second Amendment needed before the Court?
JosERW
.40 S&W
Heller says a handgun (well, any commonly possessed arm really) is a fundamental right. Asking permission from the state to even touch a handgun clearly violates that right. Not holding my breath though, "aw" and magazine bans are clearly unconstitutional except here we are... 0-3. Thank you for everything you do though. I hope you win but I just can't see NY all of a sudden scraping its pistol permitting scheme.
Uzi
.308 Win
Obviously they don't play legally by the rules. The hardest part is the constant struggle to stay afloat in a fight that is so corrupt. If all that had to be done was show them what and why it's unconstitutional and illegal, we wouldn't be having these issues at all. Way more than enough documentation to prove it all is illegal.
RBean
.40 S&W
Here is a decision of the 2nd Circuit in the Panzella case. Basically says the sheriff's office has to provide a "prompt post deprivation hearing" as per Razzano. The County will try to distinguish this in Weinstein and Carroll because of the BS OPS 10023 which they claim provides due process. It do not because no notice of the procedure is provided at the confiscation, out of 126 confiscations only in 16 were the guns returned and in none was there a "post deprivation hearing," prompt or otherwise. And in Weinstein guns not returned until a year and after suit was filed, and in Carroll, nothing was done until after suit was filed and guns still not returned.
I looked it up on Westlaw and read to decision. Of significance is foot note 9 which state that delay itself can be a denial of 14th Amendment Due Process. I'm glad this came out before I have to file the Motions for Summary Judgment. So the appellate court 2nd Circuit has adopted Razzano. Do I think this will actually change things in Nassau County? No, because none of the big shots or the County have been hit with multi-million dollars in damages, so they will just keep on doing what they have been doing, maybe give a little lip service to Razzano and Panzella.
Court upholds right to due process hearing over seized guns
I looked it up on Westlaw and read to decision. Of significance is foot note 9 which state that delay itself can be a denial of 14th Amendment Due Process. I'm glad this came out before I have to file the Motions for Summary Judgment. So the appellate court 2nd Circuit has adopted Razzano. Do I think this will actually change things in Nassau County? No, because none of the big shots or the County have been hit with multi-million dollars in damages, so they will just keep on doing what they have been doing, maybe give a little lip service to Razzano and Panzella.
Court upholds right to due process hearing over seized guns
RBean
.40 S&W
In most other states this BS would never happen. Carroll calls the police to report a stolen gun and they come and steel the rest and won't return them. So he goes out and buy other to replace the ones stolen by police. Does not further public safety, just theft.
RBean
.40 S&W
We had the last depositions in these cases today. I've been preparing Motions for Summary Judgment. Weinstein's is due Sept 18, 2017. Then Cusumano and finally Carroll. All three attack lack of due process. Cusumano and Weinstein attack PL400 as unconstitutional. Judge Spatt is hearing Weinstein and Carroll, Judge Wexler has Cusumano. We will eventually see what happens, if anything.
RBean
.40 S&W
We have requested a pre-motion conference with the Court which is the first step in filing a Motion for Summary Judgment. The County has filed their letter basically saying the Pistol License Section did their normal thing which is authorized by NY Law.
To re-enterate, Plaintiff's sister filed an exparte order of protection, Family Court heard the case 3 days later and dismissed because it was without merit. The day of filing sheriff took his pistols and license. Plaintiff provided copy of order vacating license, but Cappy did nothing for a year.
We have run out of money again. Deposition cost. I paid myself for the last two. $1,400.00. We could use some help here.
To re-enterate, Plaintiff's sister filed an exparte order of protection, Family Court heard the case 3 days later and dismissed because it was without merit. The day of filing sheriff took his pistols and license. Plaintiff provided copy of order vacating license, but Cappy did nothing for a year.
We have run out of money again. Deposition cost. I paid myself for the last two. $1,400.00. We could use some help here.
RBean
.40 S&W
We filed our Motion for Summary Judgment yesterday in Weinstein v. Krumpter. Attached, hopefully is the Memorandum of Law in Support of our motion. Seems clear to me, but what do I know? There are multiple cases that say a person's whose property has been taken is entitled to a "prompt post deprivation hearing" but Nassau County continues to ignore them. The Sullivan law has been in effect for over a hundred years and is clearly unconstitutional. Nine years since Heller but still hear.
Robin
.475 A&M Magnum
Damn!!!!! From the side lines this is outrageous and very frustrating to read. I can't imagine what its like to be on the floor of the arena, God speed Bean.
Robin
Robin
RBean
.40 S&W
Yes it is very frustrating. The opposition will be "this is the way we do it" and "what is he bitching about, we gave him his guns back".
Bob
6.5 Creedmoor
He's clearly "bitching about" the fact that Constitutional rights were violated. People like the defendants don't understand that it's not about the guns. It's about holding the government accountable for violating the trust that is placed in them by the people - both willingly and inherently through the documents that founded this great nation.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."
They may just be words on paper to some. But to others, it is a contract signed in blood.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."
They may just be words on paper to some. But to others, it is a contract signed in blood.
Robin
.475 A&M Magnum
Violation of civil rights! Sessions, HEY, sessions, Lend this man a hand!
Robin
Robin
Rethin
.38 Special
I just tossed a couple more bucks in the pot.
freddy
.308 Win
Thank you for the update.
Jmac00
.475 A&M Magnum
Im leaving, this state sux
RBean
.40 S&W
We have a place in Florida where we hope to retire. With the impending hurricane and possible loss of house and almost all belongings we reconsidered our plans. We lived in the Saratoga Springs area in upstate for six years. Liked it there and know people there. Considered moving back, except high property taxes, state income tax, totally ridiculous gun laws. I decided I'd rather deal with hurricanes. (house survived with only minor damage, we are in the middle near Ocala).
Jmac00
.475 A&M Magnum
Tennessee is a nice place with moderate weather and NO INCOME TAX. The Carolines are nice, low property tax. They just get a lot of rain.
Personally, If I were to build anywhere south of the Mason Dixson line, I would build with cement block. I'd put re-bar in every course (layer). Each rafter would be bolted to the block and I'd have a steel roof. the building would be wind proof to 200mph
RBean
.40 S&W
We served our Motion for Summary Judgement on the County today. County has 30 days to file their opposition and cross-motion.
RBean
.40 S&W
We had a Pre-Motion Conference in the Carroll case. That is the one where a young man called police to report a stolen gun, and they came and stole the rest. I appeared before Judge Spatt about a year ago. Even though he was in his nineties he was sharpe and knowledgable about the law and cases. After today can't say the same. He has gone down hill mentally. Didn't remember this case or his own Razzano decision or that the 2nd Circuit adopted it in the Panzela decision. I don't know how he can effectively try the case. Federal Judges are appointed for life. Very difficult to get one to retire if they don't want to. When this happens, usually wind up with a 20 something law clerk from an ivy league school writing his decisions. Not good. Under the federal rules the parties can agree to the US Magistrate hearing the entire case. I have found Magistrate Tomlinson to be through, knowledgable, dedicated and fair. The County will never agree. We already filed our motion for summary judgment in Weinstein. The County's opposition brief and cross-motion is due tomorrow. They got a 30 day extension. We can only hope Spatt retires and Trump gets to appoint his replacement.
Robin
.475 A&M Magnum
Best to you Bean!
Robin
Robin
M_F
.45 acp
Nassau County has the unlimited taxpayer's money and resources to fight this for years, not to mention the billions from anti gun crusaders like michael Bloomberg, this case is one of the biggest threats to the Sullivan Law that I have seen. Instead of throwing our money away to organizations that have given up/been ineffective like SCOPE, NYSRPA, as New Yorkers we can make small contributions to this case. I hope SAF joins if there is an appeal, without their initiative there wouldn't have been a HEller, which the NRA first refused to challenge D.C.
RBean
.40 S&W
Fortunately the Cusumano case is before Judge Wexler. We have already served our motion for summary judgment challenging the Sullivan Law. The County got an extension to file their opposition and cross-motion. In their pre-motion conference letter they trotted out the NY law to defend what the pistol licensing officer did (or didn't do in this case) saying under NY law he can do what ever he wants. My response is easy, exactly, that is why it is unconstitutional under Heller and McDonald.
RBean
.40 S&W
MFC, Thanks. We need all the help we can get. Alan Gura may come in and help at the appellate level. We will see.
Jmac00
.475 A&M Magnum
how many more times can they delay and ask for extensions
JosERW
.40 S&W
Are you challenging the actual Sullivan act (requiring a permit to simply touch a handgun)?
RBean
.40 S&W
Thank all of you for your donations. It is appreciated and badly needed. You are the very few helping to fight this battle. To answer some of your questions, Judge Wexler has said "no more extensions". We are attacking the licensing officer's unlimited discretion to do what every he wants. Basically a pistol license must be "shall issue" to meet constitutional standards. I posted our brief in Cusumano somewhere above. You can read it to see our argument. Maybe it will work or maybe not. Makes sense to me, but I'm not a Federal Judge in New York.