Of course this is not the first time. Will not be the last time either.
These places are not country clubs. Not nice places at all.
Marcy Correction Guards on video released by Jumbo James brutalizing cuffed prisoner who later died.
- Thread starter VietnamEraVet
- Start date
Of course this is not the first time. Will not be the last time either.
These places are not country clubs. Not nice places at all.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
And they shouldn't be.
But when the officers in charge act as bad as the inmates, who's really running the asylum.
When the only thing separating the good guys from the bad guys is how much power they have, then you don't have any good guys.
gun_slinger_boy
.338 Win Mag
Decades is far too conservative. More like since there was a such thing as prisoners. We're seeing a mere fraction of a percent of this behavior only because of cameras. Think about outside of the prison even. Before cameras. It's very telling that these types KNOW that there are cameras everywhere now and still choose to conduct themselves like this.
Sorry to see that this is how you feel.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
Well, this guy was in prison for 12 years for assault.
What the guards did was far worse than that, and obviously that was routine in that facility.
So, tell me again how they are good guys ? How many others working there knew this stuff went on and kept their mouths shut. Are they good guys ?
They will be charged, tried and probably convicted. They will serve prison time. They will lose their pensions, some will lose their families.
Violence in prison occurs, indeed. They went too far and they will pay the price. I do not know them, so I do not know if they are good guys.
Do you think I am a good guy?
Vicarious
.40 S&W
We had a prison guard here one year beat the snot out of a chained prisoner at the county jail, he was charged with deprivation of rights under color of law, these guys will be going to prison.
Your case.... Again, got caught on camera:
A former Tioga County jail guard who was caught on tape beating a prisoner has been sentenced to six months in federal prison.
As it should be if caught. No doubt about it. Especially a Watch Commander. It is their job to tell the officers when enough is enough.
stokes
.338 Win Mag
State prisons are extraordinarily violent places. Guards are severely outnumbered and every altercation is a potentially fatal encounter, once it starts you are fighting for your life. Only thing these guys did wrong,in my mind, is tuning up a cuffed mutt. And doing it on camera.
Makes me wonder if people understand how dangerous and deadly these places are. I don;t think many do.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
Do you beat up guys after they have been rendered helpless ?
Yes, *these* guys will be paying the price.
But obviously this happens a lot more often.
What lesson will the others take away. "They shouldn't be beating up helpless people" or "they should have been more careful about it so they didn't get caught".
Which of those lessons you take away is whether you are a good person or not.
Bustedknees
.308 Win
They keep saying he was serving time for assault. He stabbed his ex girlfriend over 40 times. That didn't qualify for attempted murder for some reason.
Can't, I work there.
I do not think this was repelling an attack. I think this may have been a punishment thing. On the grapevine, I hear he was being moved due to multiple attacks on other CO's.
Not siding either way, just pointing out what I have heard and read.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
They didnt do it because he was black, had nothing to do with it. they did it because he was class A fucking asshole, white guys get the same . Ask me how I know.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
Does that make it any better ?
Yes, it shows the ass whooping is fair across the board, all spectrum's.
Man, woman, black, White..... All equally get this corrective behavior.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
I get the idea of vigilantism.
Under many circumstances I can even support it.
But, not from people who chose to take a job enforcing the law and swore an oath to uphold it.
The hypocrisy really pisses me off.
"We'll lock this guy up because he broke the law, and if he pisses us off we'll break the law to punish him".
Nope, if you choose that career path, then you'd best walk the straight and narrow or you're a POS.
The guys in the video are *far* worse than the inmate they killed.
If you are law enforcement, your job is to enforce the judgements of the court, and *only* the judgements of the court. You don't get to make up your own punishments. If you do then you are *worse* than the criminals. At least they aren't hypocrits.
And if you think (as I do) that our justice system has failed and is incapable of properly punishing criminals, then QUIT WORKING FOR IT.
If you want to go out and deliver "street justice" then do it, but don't hide behind a badge.
This was obviously common practice at that facility. They should have an independent group review *all* the body cams for everyone working there for the last 6 months.
If they have to throw 80% of the staff in prison, then that's what they should do.
Um, this is common practice in nearly every jail and prison in the US. If this type of "justice" did not occur, it would be full on anarchy in our correctional facilities.
This is fact.
I can go all day with this.
Let us say for example that this upstanding prisoner did in fact attack officers on numerous occasions. What do you think should happen to him for these attacks?
spat
.700 Nitro Express
Oh, I realize it is common practice. That's the problem.
Every one participating in it is committing assault. They should all be locked up. Every guard that participated and every one who knew and looked the other way.
In every facility anywhere.
The correct answer for "what should law enforcement do when someone commits assault" is to give them a trial and let the courts sentence them. Whether that is an inmate of a guard that does it.
Look, I understand that the whole system is currently fucked.
I understand that the courts won't do anything about it.
But, you can't rely on the courts for your authority and at the same time declare that you need to mete out punishment outside of them.
Should the families of the other inmates this happens to just hunt down and murder the guards because the courts won't punish them ?
Either you rely on the courts, or you don't. What you don't get to do is claim that the courts give you authority at the same time you claim you can ignore the law.
Almost never happens. Without jail justice, the attacks will only get worse. I am still waiting for court justice for when I was attacked and my head was split open. Yeah, not going to happen. I do not think that person will do it again though to someone else.
stokes
.338 Win Mag
Enforcement comes before the judgements of the court, you enforce a law then the courts pass judgement. These guys fucked up because they administered an attitude adjustment on a defenseless cuffed victim. Prisons are a violent place, CO's are attacked every day. They are outnumbered, if there werent reprisals by the officers, the mutts would own the prison. If you want to engage in assaultive behavior against CO's you will pay the price. If not, as GOP said, the jails would be in anarchy. To be a CO in a state prison you have to be crazier than the mutts that outnumber you, or at least be prepared to act crazier and fight like its him or you, cause it is. And sometimes people die.
Hochulsucks1234
.44 mag
Wasn't infering they did it because he was black. However, the media will.....
spat
.700 Nitro Express
So, if the guards can be judge, jury, and executioner for this stuff, then what's the difference between them and the inmates ?
What's the justification for allowing them to kidnap and imprison people ? You can't say "because they were breaking the law" when the people locking them up are breaking it too.
Either the law matters, or it doesn't. If you are going to abandon "rule of law" as a guiding principle, then fucking abandon it. Don't try to claim it as a source of authority at the same time you're openly violating it.
OwnTheRide
.223 Rem
As spat said, arrest, charge, try.
But there's more than that: the prisoner should not have had the opportunity for multiple attacks. One and done. From then on, locked in a cell, only transported fully bound, etc.
I understand the point that you are getting at here, that the legal avenues are ineffective at best for handling incarcerated people who attack COs. The solution, then, is to address that. How? Well, if you're a CO and you're not getting the support you need to control the population without breaking the law, quit. It is a job. Get another one.
If enough COs did exactly that, then we'd have a severe shortage of COs and be unable to fulfill the need. The government will then have no choice but to address it.
You might say, "easy for you to say." Sure, but that's the same option offered to everyone else. If my employer gave me a choice between breaking the law and quitting, I'd quit. In that respect, COs are no different. They're not enlisted, they are free to stop working at any time.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
Or, if you can't follow the fucking rules and do your job, get another job.
"But the place would fall apart without me" is not an excuse. Just leave and let it fall apart.
Because the way you guys are suggesting things should run, there isn't a difference between law enforcement and a street gang.
Should the inmates get some of their buddies on the outside to "issue corrections" to officers who are a bit overzealous too ?
If the officers can administer their own justice because the courts won't do it, then surely the criminals can do it too.
Is that the world you want to live in ?
Under New York law, that type of punishment is no longer allowed. Used to be able to lock them in for 23 hours per day, the Dems in NY took that away. As a matter of fact, the elected took away almost all forms of discipline in prisons and jails.
It is as easy as you say. I had enough of the BS, I did exactly what you said..... I resigned. I resigned due to the lack of support from the elected in NY. My bosses all knew how far I would go, they would never ask me to go further. (I was willing to go pretty far at times)/.
Should the inmates get some of their buddies on the outside to "issue corrections" to officers who are a bit overzealous too ?
This happens a lot!!!!!
stokes
.338 Win Mag
Nobody says it "should" run this way, it is the way its run and has been forever. Prison is supposed to be punishment, the libs have turned it into a sleepaway camp years ago. 99% of the inmates in state prison are violent offenders, and they continue that behavior in prison. You want to go in there and control them? The fact that an inmate or CO isnt killed everyday shows that it works. More inmates are killed by other inmates and as a CO you have to deal with protecting them, as well as deal with protecting yourself from the 20 violent mutts in the room with you alone. There are a lot of times the line between inmate and guard becomes blurred, its just the nature of life behind bars. Unless you've been there, on either side, you have no clue what its like and your opinion means very little. As I said already, I dont condone what these guys did in this situation, with a cuffed offender. But you can be sure he wasnt beaten just because, he did something to bring it on.
Unfortunately it is the world as it is in prison. You got a way to improve it?