Marcy Correction Guards on video released by Jumbo James brutalizing cuffed prisoner who later died.

[stokes]

Want to be a PITA for the guards, then enjoy supermax where they DGAF if you want to be a PITA or not, because you just can't.

Oh, you mean the magical super max. Where they bounce around farting rainbows and are guarded by unicorns? There is no adequate form of punishment allowed in any prisons anymore. If there was, there wouldnt be as much bs from the mutts.

 

[spat]

Not true. They still have recreational time. They still have visitation rights. Programs are available.

You think they are locked in their cells all day?

Still have contact with other prisoners and guards.

NY doesn't have any supermax prisons.

I am suggesting federal supermax.

Someone who assaults a prison guard has committed a federal crime and can be convicted of that and sent to a real prison.

Have you seen a documentary on the federal supermax prisons ? Even the worst inmates are not going to be causing more than an inconvenience there.

 

[spat]

Oh, you mean the magical super max. Where they bounce around farting rainbows and are guarded by unicorns? There is no adequate form of punishment allowed in any prisons anymore. If there was, there wouldnt be as much bs from the mutts.

Federal supermax prisons are not like the glorified daycare centers that NY runs.

And they are not about punishment, inmates at that level are beyond punishment being a deterrent.

They are simply about eliminating any opportunities the inmates might have to even cause trouble.

They're treated like livestock, not unruly children.

The inmates are confined for the most part of the day in single cells with facilities made of poured, reinforced concrete to deter self-harm, and are under 24-hour supervision, carried out intensively with high staff–inmate ratios.

ADX Florence - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[GOPerfect]

NY doesn't have any supermax prisons.

I am suggesting federal supermax.

Someone who assaults a prison guard has committed a federal crime and can be convicted of that and sent to a real prison.

Have you seen a documentary on the federal supermax prisons ? Even the worst inmates are not going to be causing more than an inconvenience there.

NY actually does have, what are considered Super-max.

One example is: Five Points Correctional Facility (FPCF) is a Maximum state prison for men located in Romulus and operated by the NYS Prison authority. Five Points is known as a Supermax, One of five I believe.

 

[spat]

NY actually does have, what are considered Super-max.

One example is: Five Points Correctional Facility (FPCF) is a Maximum state prison for men located in Romulus and operated by the NYS Prison authority. Five Points is known as a Supermax, One of five I believe.

Do the inmates stay locked down in individual cells 23 hours a day ?

If not, then it's not supermax.

NY doesn't have the balls to run a real supermax.

 

[GOPerfect]

Do the inmates stay locked down in individual cells 23 hours a day ?

If not, then it's not supermax.

NY doesn't have the balls to run a real supermax.

They are in fact Super Max prisons. Not sure what to tell you. This is the category that they fit in.

May not be as Supermax as the Fed facility in Colorado, still considered SM.

 

[spat]

They are in fact Super Max prisons. Not sure what to tell you. This is the category that they fit in.

May not be as Supermax as the Fed facility in Colorado, still considered SM.

I'm just saying that the NY definition of "super max" is probably lacking quite a bit.

The answer isn't to let guards dispense extra judicial punishment to discourage violent behavior. The point is to make it impossible to commit to begin with.

 

[GOPerfect]

I'm just saying that the NY definition of "super max" is probably lacking quite a bit.

The answer isn't to let guards dispense extra judicial punishment to discourage violent behavior. The point is to make it impossible to commit to begin with.

In most states, that is impossible. They all know and understand what guards do. It is in fact, an unwritten part of the job for many.

 

[spat]

In most states, that is impossible. They all know and understand what guards do. It is in fact, an unwritten part of the job for many.

It shouldn't be.

The prison should be designed so that it's unnecessary.

Super max proves it's possible.

It may be very expensive, and you might not be able to extract slave labor from inmates that way, but I view that as a feature not a bug.

It would encourage the state to view incarceration as a last resort for the anti-social and not as a punishment for non violent crimes.

High security prison should be designed like a livestock handling facility.

Guards should barely have to interact at all with the inmates. Just funnel them down dedicated chutes like cattle when they need to be relocated.

And no personal property at all. If they're relocated to a new cell, then it's just them that moves. Any property in the cell is just collected and returned to the general pool and the inmate is issued new bedding and cloths and so forth at the new cell.

Etc...

 

[GOPerfect]

It shouldn't be.

The prison should be designed so that it's unnecessary.

Super max proves it's possible.

It may be very expensive, and you might not be able to extract slave labor from inmates that way, but I view that as a feature not a bug.

It would encourage the state to view incarceration as a last resort for the anti-social and not as a punishment for non violent crimes.

High security prison should be designed like a livestock handling facility.

Guards should barely have to interact at all with the inmates. Just funnel them down dedicated chutes like cattle when they need to be relocated.

And no personal property at all. If they're relocated to a new cell, then it's just them that moves. Any property in the cell is just collected and returned to the general pool and the inmate is issued new bedding and cloths and so forth at the new cell.

Etc...

" High security prison should be designed like a livestock handling facility."

Many times, cattle prods or used for livestock

 

[spat]

" High security prison should be designed like a livestock handling facility."

Many times, cattle prods or used for livestock

If it's necessary to move the herd through the chute, then absolutely.

But, you don't just shock the shit out of the cow because it kicked someone an hour ago.

Just chain the inmates to an overhead track when you move them. Keep the guards out of kicking range. Have some guy remotely switch the track at intersections like it was a train.

Problem solved.

 

[dwa12479]

Leave him in his cell.
Give him his out time after everyone else has gone, then just Hannibal Letter him.

Not allowed.

 

[dwa12479]

Ship his ass to a higher security facility.

That's it.

Want to be a PITA for the guards, then enjoy supermax where they DGAF if you want to be a PITA or not, because you just can't.

So there is capacity and funding available for that?

What about turnaround time? Assauly a CO Tuesday, its not like you'll in supermax by Friday. Be more like assault a CO in Jan 2025 and be in supermax by May 2027.

 

[FP1201]

Inside team member said last night "...four of them will be charged with first degree murder on Monday..."
Folks, PLEASE remember there is ALWAYS more to the story, and no one has been convicted in a Court of Law yet.
The State's Prison System is a total shit-show...Troopers aren't much better, and the "Superintendents" AKA Politically appointed assclowns are absolute power hungry fuck ups (I realize there is always discontent from rank & file, bit the state of affairs seem to prove the assertion)
If you know or meet either a CO or Trooper that's been on the job a decade or more, just ask them about working for the State and be ready for your ears to bleed.

 

[spat]

So there is capacity and funding available for that?

What about turnaround time? Assauly a CO Tuesday, its not like you'll in supermax by Friday. Be more like assault a CO in Jan 2025 and be in supermax by May 2027.

You have identified the root cause of the problem.

Fix that.

Don't apply unconstitutional bandaids.

It should be "assault a CO in the morning, eat your dinner in supermax"

The funding problem can be easily solved by just not locking up such a ridiculous number of people. That should be reserved for people who are fundamentally too dangerous to walk free.

People who are merely untrustworthy should have other punishments applied.


For reference, in 1950 the US had about 110k people in prison.

Today it's 1.8M.

That's a large part of the problem right there.

 

[stokes]

For reference, in 1950 the US had about 110k people in prison.

Today it's 1.8M.

That's a large part of the problem right there.

And that has nothing to do with more people engaged in criminal activity than in 1950?

 

[spat]

And that has nothing to do with more people engaged in criminal activity than in 1950?

It absolutely does.

We have defined far too many things as "criminal activity".

Half those 1.8M are in for things that weren't even considered antisocial in 1950, let alone a crime.

How many are in on some gun possession charge for instance ?

Get rid of all the laws with the word "possession" in them and you're halfway to solving the problem.

 

[GOPerfect]

Inside team member said last night "...four of them will be charged with first degree murder on Monday..."
Folks, PLEASE remember there is ALWAYS more to the story, and no one has been convicted in a Court of Law yet.
The State's Prison System is a total shit-show...Troopers aren't much better, and the "Superintendents" AKA Politically appointed assclowns are absolute power hungry fuck ups (I realize there is always discontent from rank & file, bit the state of affairs seem to prove the assertion)
If you know or meet either a CO or Trooper that's been on the job a decade or more, just ask them about working for the State and be ready for your ears to bleed.

If charged with 1st Degree murder, best they ask for a Bench trial, they will be found not guilty of that charge. (At least the way that I read it).

 

[ManualF150]

It absolutely does.

We have defined far too many things as "criminal activity".

Half those 1.8M are in for things that weren't even considered antisocial in 1950, let alone a crime.

How many are in on some gun possession charge for instance ?

Get rid of all the laws with the word "possession" in them and you're halfway to solving the problem.

This is what drives me nuts about states having their own gun laws. Especially when it's written into the Constitution. If it wasn't, then that is a different story.

How many folks end up in jail because they don't have the "administrative" paperwork for a gun? When you can go to a majority of other US states, and unless you are doing something illegal with that gun (robbery for instance), then you don't get go to jail, because there is no paperwork needed.

The laws in this state do not protect the people, but rather add to the problems.

It's easier to make laws than it is to actually solve the problem.

 

[Darth]

Not true. They still have recreational time. They still have visitation rights. Programs are available.

You think they are locked in their cells all day?

Still have contact with other prisoners and guards.

They get more visitation in a max.

 

[stokes]

Half those 1.8M are in for things that weren't even considered antisocial in 1950, let alone a crime.

Such as? You really think half of them are in there on minor firearms possession? I worked in Criminal Court in Manhattan for 30 yrs and can say nobody with a simple gun charge got any serious time for the offense, almost always some other crime involved to get state time. Are gun laws in NY unfair, absolutely, but bitching about them on the internet does nothing to change that. And as for NY gun laws, you gave up any right to bitch about it when you fixed it by fleeing to Ariz.

 

[GOPerfect]

Such as? You really think half of them are in there on minor firearms possession? I worked in Criminal Court in Manhattan for 30 yrs and can say nobody with a simple gun charge got any serious time for the offense, almost always some other crime involved to get state time. Are gun laws in NY unfair, absolutely, but bitching about them on the internet does nothing to change that. And as for NY gun laws, you gave up any right to bitch about it when you fixed it by fleeing to Ariz.

I ran away and I still bitch about it.

 

[stokes]

I ran away and I still bitch about it.

And the bitching is empty.

 

[GOPerfect]

And the bitching is empty.

Absolutely it is. Gives us all shit to talk about though

 

[FP1201]

It absolutely does.

We have defined far too many things as "criminal activity".

Half those 1.8M are in for things that weren't even considered antisocial in 1950, let alone a crime.

How many are in on some gun possession charge for instance ?

Get rid of all the laws with the word "possession" in them and you're halfway to solving the problem.

I expect most of that 1.8 Million are and will remain demographically at the Poverty level/
Look at New York and how they make damn near everything a Felony to strip people of their Rights (exercising control over the lives and futures of those convicted) How so much is plea-bargained away (DA's have a hard time getting convictions and need wins for re-election) people cut loose that should remain behind Bars, while using Lawfare to exploit those with money or they deem unworthy of Club Membership...yea, the whole fucking system is criminal, impotent, and corrupt.
Juvi's, well that's another portion that would make your head explode...probation and Social Services, would leave you speechless...Dems created this mess and they know it, so they'll go after someone like Trump (big name, big money) to divert attention away from the bullshit to make it appear as thought they're doing a good job, while all they're doing is gaslighting the truth.

 

[VietnamEraVet]

Such as? You really think half of them are in there on minor firearms possession? I worked in Criminal Court in Manhattan for 30 yrs and can say nobody with a simple gun charge got any serious time for the offense, almost always some other crime involved to get state time. Are gun laws in NY unfair, absolutely, but bitching about them on the internet does nothing to change that. And as for NY gun laws, you gave up any right to bitch about it when you fixed it by fleeing to Ariz.

…gave up any right to bitch about it when you fixed it by fleeing to Ariz.?

I think not. As for me, (and most if not all of the rest of us NYS expats) I didn’t flee NYS for the Carolina’s for shits and giggles. I WAS ABSOLUTELY FORCED OUT of my home state for a number of reasons. And I try to support gun rights for ALL of us, - and specifically against the tyranny against gun owners by New Yorkistan.

 

[FP1201]

…gave up any right to bitch about it when you fixed it by fleeing to Ariz.?

I think not. As for me, (and most if not all of the rest of us NYS expats) I didn’t flee NYS for the Carolina’s for shits and giggles. I WAS ABSOLUTELY FORCED OUT of my home state for a number of reasons. And I try to support gun rights for ALL of us, - and specifically against the tyranny against gun owners by New Yorkistan.

It's ironic that outside of the NRA's support for NYSRPA v. Bruen that the greatest donations for the Case came from outside of New York....That's right, our own people were out-funded and out-supported by people with no ties to New York.

 

[spat]

Such as? You really think half of them are in there on minor firearms possession? I worked in Criminal Court in Manhattan for 30 yrs and can say nobody with a simple gun charge got any serious time for the offense, almost always some other crime involved to get state time. Are gun laws in NY unfair, absolutely, but bitching about them on the internet does nothing to change that. And as for NY gun laws, you gave up any right to bitch about it when you fixed it by fleeing to Ariz.

Yep, I solved my problem.

There are a lot of reasons we have 15x the prison population today than we did 75 years ago. Almost all of them are bad.

But, fix the root problems. Bandaids as anything but a temporary solution only ever lead to more problems.

The bandaids for the problems of the past are largely responsible for the problems of today.

And it's obviously not all gun charges.

But drug charges OTOH. What percentage of those people would be in prison if all recreational drugs were as available as alcohol ?

I'll remind you that organized crime wasn't much if a thing until we banned alcohol. It would be very easy to put all the drug dealers out of business. That would probably eliminate 80% of those crimes right there.

 

[stokes]

But drug charges OTOH. What percentage of those people would be in prison if all recreational drugs were as available as alcohol ?

Some drugs should not be legal. Didnt Portland or one of those lib cities out west legalize or actually turn a blind eye to the use and actually supply hypes and a "safe place" to use it? Didnt work out too well. A lot of people make the "if alcohol is legal, why not all drugs" argument, but alcohol and crack and heroin are not even close.

 

[FP1201]

Yep, I solved my problem.

There are a lot of reasons we have 15x the prison population today than we did 75 years ago. Almost all of them are bad.

But, fix the root problems. Bandaids as anything but a temporary solution only ever lead to more problems.

The bandaids for the problems of the past are largely responsible for the problems of today.

And it's obviously not all gun charges.

But drug charges OTOH. What percentage of those people would be in prison if all recreational drugs were as available as alcohol ?

I'll remind you that organized crime wasn't much if a thing until we banned alcohol. It would be very easy to put all the drug dealers out of business. That would probably eliminate 80% of those crimes right there.

I swear this sentence followed the end of every Blotter Report I ever read: "...small quantity of/in possession of marijuana was also seized". I do not condone or generally approve of it's use or being able to smell it being smoked, but it's not my business so long as it's not effecting us...that's your business.