With training and practice 300 yards with a 5.56 rifle is quite attainable. I want to train myself to a 400 yard standard.
Marines To Upgrade Rifles, Investigate Use Of Hollowpoint Bullets
- Thread starter Marine Cpl
- Start date
Churchill should have insisted on NATO adoption of the .280 British round. .280 British + FAL = the elimination of 99% of all small arms controversy of the last 60 years!
Eddie Gunks
.338 Win Mag
Yes. I agree. Average Troops my be trained (at one time. A little). But practice? How much practice do they really get? Really.
I run irons out to 300 with my scar 16 very effectively. 400-425 get more challenging. I bought a 1-6 optic. Feels like cheating now.
That being said, i practice quite frequently.
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As an artillery soldier I saw official rangetime twice a year, on practice one qual. But I volunteered for rnge time whenever possible, just cause I liked shooting. Infantry units see more frequent range time naturally and the support units would have to cheat to meet minimum standards of marksmanship. I shot my personal arms waaaaaaay more often, always on the weekends, sometimes multiple time per week. I'd go through thousands of rounds in a week. Ammo was still cheap then.
No what should have happened did, we the USA insisted on the 7.62 for NATO which they adopted. The problem started when people who should NOT have had a say in what weapons we carry(ied) had a say, there is IMHO no tactical reason to change from the 7.62x51 to the 5.56. The pitch was the weapons were lighter BFD, if we are putting people in uniform who cannot carry a weapon capable of firing the 7.62x51 he or she should have a desk job. I am 56 yrs old and carry in ready position a 17 lb rifle to and from my hunting stand and I have done so for years.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Marines qualify yearly at 500 yards with the M16A4 rifle with iron sights. The 5.56mm is capable of distance.
No, wrong. 7.62 is useless for full auto. I've fired full autos in 7.62 and it is extremely difficult, nearly impossible, to control. And even if you can the recoil and blast from of a battle rifle going full auto completely obliterates your awareness of anything beyond the wildly dancing front sight. 5.56 is a good round for what was intended, high volumes of useful automatic fire, and is effective at closer ranges. What is needed is a round somewhere in the 6-7mm class that provides a balance of characteristics.
Also a soldier can carry a lot more 5.56 than 7.62. I would like to see a 105gr 6mm bullet moving at 2500 or so fps at the muzzle, in as compact a case as possible. That should give resonable range and controllability.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
It depends on the platform it's fired from.
Fired from the shoulder it is useless. Fired from a bipod or tripod, it's quite accurate.
I'm talking about shoulder fired rifles here. And since the Army has moved to .300 win mag for sniping, if we replace the 5.56 (and we won't) than it needs to be able to replace the 7.62 as well. It can be done, we have the technology!
Oh yes the spray and hope tactic, I never took to it. I much prefer to aim and kill my target with one .308 rather than spray a bunch of .22 dia bullets into an area and hope one of them hits something vital. How many bullets does it take to hit a target hiding behind oh lets say a block wall or an oak door or maybe a piece of 1/4" plating at 50 yds?
Its just the way infantry combat is, like or not. Volume of fire is what wins fire fights. Most of the time soliders are laying fire into targets they can't even see. How can you aim at what you can't see?
7.62 should be obsolete. The Swedes, the Italians and the Japanese had it right with their 6.5 calibers. ThebGarand would of been a better rifle with the .276 Pedersen (though McArthur's reasoning for keeping the 30-06 was sound).
7.62 should be obsolete. The Swedes, the Italians and the Japanese had it right with their 6.5 calibers. ThebGarand would of been a better rifle with the .276 Pedersen (though McArthur's reasoning for keeping the 30-06 was sound).
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I don't know when you were in but, in this day and age of wandering through towns or villages NO ONE is running full auto. Now maybe one or two guys running a 249 SAW but not the entire platoon. You give no reason why the .308 should be obsolete, it would be a much better round when "laying fire into a target" and old trusty M60 if all the spray and hope folks are shooting from the hip because as you said "how can you aim at what you can't see?" no one is shouldering the 5.56 as they spray the .308 will out shoot the it every time, if you are spraying into a stand of trees or a jungle or into a building 150grs of bullet beats 60grs every time. Not to mention from 1000yds out with one shot.