Need advice on lever action rifle 357 Mag, 44 Mag, 45 colt

[meketrefe]

Ask yourself... what can I do with a 44mag or 45 and some others that I cannot do with a 357 mag.?
Answer: nothing.
You can actually do more things and have plentiful and cheaper ammo.
anything above 35 and 375 bullets is ballostically inefficient.
35 and 375 bores also provide the brush solution for thick forest so it is more versatil that way. Specially 357 that can use affordable 9mm bullets and also prime 358 hunting rounds given the right twist.

 

[Trauma47645]

What did it run you, about 900?

I considered buying some other rifles just to fill that Niche that I want, but I've decided it's worth waiting till I can afford the one I really want.

I paid $600 out the door..

I don't think the LGS knew it was a JM and not a remlim

 

[meketrefe]

Also....
16 twist with a long freebore is desirable for custom and high performance loads.
Although buffalo bore 158gr will deliver a huge blow for average hunting so no need for 180gr.
Even 140gr FTX is a great bullet for deer/bear.

 

[Trauma47645]

Also....
16 twist with a long freebore is desirable for custom and high performance loads.
Although buffalo bore 158gr will deliver a huge blow for average hunting so no need for 180gr.
Even 140gr FTX is a great bullet for deer/bear.

Find me a .357 Marlin 1894 and I'll buy it..

Lol

 

[Snappo]

Ask yourself... what can I do with a 44mag or 45 and some others that I cannot do with a 357 mag.?

For one thing, I can put a 44 mag round down the barrel.........

I probably should have bought my Henry in 357 but I already owned a pair of 44 mag revolvers and it saved me having to start buying yet another caliber. Best way to buy ammo is in bulk (or reload it yourself) and it's easier to buy bulk when you don't need too many calibers. I'm thinking the perfect setup from a cost perspective (ammo, weapon parts) is:
1) 22 LR for plinking
2) .223 for varmints
3) .308 for hunting in North America; or 30-06 if you already own an M1 Garand.
4) 44 Mag or 357 Mag for revolver (if you even want to own a revolver).
5) 45 ACP for semi-auto pistol (if you aren't a revolver person)
6) Some sort of lever action. Maybe 30-30 or a revolver round that you already own.

 

[Snappo]

Find me a .357 Marlin 1894 and I'll buy it..

I don't think it comes in that round. Henry does though and they hold value better than a Marlin and runs about $650 in gold/brass.

 

[turbobike]

Ask yourself... what can I do with a 44mag or 45 and some others that I cannot do with a 357 mag.?

Launch a 240 gr 45 caliber XTP at over 2400 fps, with over 3000ft-lbs energy...and still have 9 in the tube! (Rossi 92 in 454 Casull). Since a Freedom arms 83 revolver in 454 has taken all the African Big 5, the carbine would just add more energy to that, the Rossi 92 (454) can pretty much take any land animal on earth! (with the proper bullet for application)

 

[Trauma47645]

I don't think it comes in that round. Henry does though and they hold value better than a Marlin and runs about $650 in gold/brass.

That's a big negative there chief..

JM Marlin 1894's come in a handful of pistol calibers, .357 being one of them

Also .357 JM Marlin are going for $700 on up.

They are not often seen on the market due to being so sought after..

Henry's are a dime a dozen.

Plus side loading gate is so much cooler than a front loading tube

 

[Trauma47645]

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/679138655

I should point out that I am looking for "pre-safety" marlins

 

[meketrefe]

Launch a 240 gr 45 caliber XTP at over 2400 fps, with over 3000ft-lbs energy...and still have 9 in the tube! (Rossi 92 in 454 Casull). Since a Freedom arms 83 revolver in 454 has taken all the African Big 5, the carbine would just add more energy to that, the Rossi 92 (454) can pretty much take any land animal on earth! (with the proper bullet for application)

For large calibers and dangerous game why stop at the 454 casull? The 450 marlin will provide flatter trajectory and a lot more energy.

The 375 is "african" legal and for who knows for what inexplicable reason the 358 is not for the Big 5 but either one can start with less and deliver more in the end.
The thing is that anything larger than 375 is very inefficient ballistically talking with the exception of a very limited and exclusive
amount of bullets in .416 and 50 cal like the BMG obviously. Those are restricted to very specific roles and uses and normally
require expensive exclusive cases and actions. So they are not popular for hunting.

So a simple lever in 375 or 35 caliber delivers more at 100 yards already and for most uses this means more versatilty
and easy to shoot. I think within the 50-100 yards the larger bores are great for brush and it is common to trade
speed for grain on animals. But just to give you an example a premium 35 reminton with a 225gr bullet will shoot
flatter than the 230gr causul and at 100 yards already will come on top in trajectory, penetration and momentum.
The actual wounding poetential of 35 and 375 is already brutal so either way will have dead game pretty fast
at those distances.

Values at the muzzle are meaningless. I think one should consider the versatility of something that can strech
the distances with easier shoots and a larger blow at those distances too.

And on top one can do softer and cheaper easy to shoot loads as an alternative like a 140gr or 180gr to take
a deer or black bear, even elk that is more likely the goal of the average hunter who will never tackle African big
game. And for that are also more appropriate dedicated rifles with magnum loads as you probably know.

I am just trying to be realistic. Once you look at the trajectories and values at impact at the different distances there
is little case for anything larger than 375. But of course large bores are brutal in average to short distances same
as some shotguns.

 

[Snappo]

For large calibers and dangerous game why stop at the 454 casull? The 450 marlin will provide flatter trajectory and a lot more energy.

The 375 is "african" legal and for who knows for what inexplicable reason the 358 is not for the Big 5 but either one can start with less and deliver more in the end.
The thing is that anything larger than 375 is very inefficient ballistically talking with the exception of a very limited and exclusive
amount of bullets in .416 and 50 cal like the BMG obviously. Those are restricted to very specific roles and uses and normally
require expensive exclusive cases and actions. So they are not popular for hunting.

So a simple lever in 375 or 35 caliber delivers more at 100 yards already and for most uses this means more versatilty
and easy to shoot. I think within the 50-100 yards the larger bores are great for brush and it is common to trade
speed for grain on animals. But just to give you an example a premium 35 reminton with a 225gr bullet will shoot
flatter than the 230gr causul and at 100 yards already will come on top in trajectory, penetration and momentum.
The actual wounding poetential of 35 and 375 is already brutal so either way will have dead game pretty fast
at those distances.

Values at the muzzle are meaningless. I think one should consider the versatility of something that can strech
the distances with easier shoots and a larger blow at those distances too.

And on top one can do softer and cheaper easy to shoot loads as an alternative like a 140gr or 180gr to take
a deer or black bear, even elk that is more likely the goal of the average hunter who will never tackle African big
game. And for that are also more appropriate dedicated rifles with magnum loads as you probably know.

I am just trying to be realistic. Once you look at the trajectories and values at impact at the different distances there
is little case for anything larger than 375. But of course large bores are brutal in average to short distances same
as some shotguns.

I just gave my Marlin 336CS away to a friend because it's costly and almost impossible to find 35 Remington at Walmart or Herb Phillipsons. Maybe it's a dying round?

 

[Trauma47645]

I just gave my Marlin 336CS away to a friend because it's costly and almost impossible to find 35 Remington at Walmart or Herb Phillipsons. Maybe it's a dying round?

.35 remington isn't quite a dying round.. is it as common as 30/30 on shelves... no.. but it is far from dying

 

[meketrefe]

Not dying but with the browning blr in 358 winchester is hard to justify any other lever gun. That is a round that can take anything from a white tail to a grizzly, inexpensive and versatile.
Combined with the blr action that is as good as it gets. A true hunters gun and round.

 

[Trauma47645]

Not dying but with the browning blr in 358 winchester is hard to justify any other lever gun. That is a round that can take anything from a white tail to a grizzly, inexpensive and versatile.
Combined with the blr action that is as good as it gets. A true hunters gun and round.

Regardless..

I think he is only considering pistol calibers

 

[Snappo]

Not dying but with the browning blr in 358 winchester is hard to justify any other lever gun. That is a round that can take anything from a white tail to a grizzly, inexpensive and versatile.
Combined with the blr action that is as good as it gets. A true hunters gun and round.

He really wanted a lever; and I had the 45-70 and the Henry so I gave it away. No biggie. And he doesn't mind reloading 35 Remington; which I didn't want to do. I think if I ever get one more lever; it will be 45 Long Colt and then get a Ruger single action 45 LR to match. OTOH, I did get that antique 357 mag recently; so maybe I should do a 357 lever?

 

[meketrefe]

Regardless..

I think he is only considering pistol calibers

iMO the 35 rem will not die soon.
It will not grow but there are too many nice rifles still to keepbit going just like the 3030.

Regarding the pistol calibers that is why I proposed the 357mag. one can have a revolver
And then a lever and even if one has a 9mm
Pistol or Sig one can share the same bullets for average shooting. The casing is secondary but the versatility if the 35 bore is hard to beat in many casings because in most cases one can share 9mm, 357 and 358 rifle bullets depending on casing, chamber, rifling, and feeding option.
Another tipical is the 44mag that is amazing in recolvera but not what many will consider practical. Afterall the 357mag can go from vwry mild to high performance hunting ammo that with a carbine will serve most objectives of the average hunting in the northern woods in the east.
35 bore is king on that.
Folks bring up causull, marlin, 500 s&w, african game, etc...and threads end up going all over the place.
A 357 maximum with a smooth lead aangle can shoot 357 maximum, 357 magnum and 38 special loaded alternativellyvif you want. They all can shoot up to 180 and 200 gr bullets at differnt speeds given proper loads and powders and use 9mm, 357 and 358 premium bullets if you choose carefully the bore and twist. Also all of then have revolver and lever actions that work great for that.
But is the casing that important or more having the option to share powders and bullets and those bullets very well priced for volume shooting?
The benefita of the 9mm/ 35 bore are pretty obvious.

 

[Trauma47645]

The only two benefits .44 mag has over .357 are increased bullet weight and increased velocity..

But I do agree .357 is more versatile

 

[meketrefe]

The only two benefits .44 mag has over .357 are increased bullet weight and increased velocity..

But I do agree .357 is more versatile

There is no increased velocity for straight wall cartridges of similar working pressure.
Whatever velocity one gains with a lighter bullet and faster powder is lost in ballistics performance as soon as it leaves the barrel.
To find a bullet with similar ballistic coefficient to some 35 170-180gr bullet one will need a 450gr 430 cal spitzer bullet and that
would be too much for the 44 mag case and they do not exist anyway.

Like I said before, performance values at the bore are meaningless. ...unless one plans to put the muzzle against the deer and pull the trigger.

Get your ballistics tables at 50, 100, 150 and 200 yards and a new picture shows up.

less is more in the end.

44mag is great no doubt, I have a S&W revolver. But I would reserve it for folks living
out west in grizz territory and possibly for the revolver only. For a rifle there are other
great options like a 444 marlin for example if one wants to share the same 44mag bullets.