Also said suitable for deer. The Barnes blacktips do a number on deer and hogs I hear. Maybe @dsdmmat can comment on something suitable for hunting but a bit cheaper than the blacktips.
Need Ideas - AR In Caliber Greater than .223
- Thread starter kev74
- Start date
Eddie Gunks
.338 Win Mag
I shot a deat with 300bo 125gr. It was ho-hum at best. Almost no expansion (bent the tip). Dear was dead after 20-25 paces.
I have had way better kils/expansion from 5.7x28 carbine w/blue tips. 45acp 230hp. 556 70 gr TSX. 556 64 gr. Bonded bullets.
I have had way better kils/expansion from 5.7x28 carbine w/blue tips. 45acp 230hp. 556 70 gr TSX. 556 64 gr. Bonded bullets.
<------------only hunts targets and things that can shoot back. One doesn't feel pain, the other if it feels pain (or suffers) is immaterial.
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meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
To find a better caliber than the x39 and whisper/blackout that runs in standard magazines is easy, the 223 itself.
Unless your objective is subsonic loads the 223 loaded with 70 to 80gr bullets delivers more speed and energy.
I think the only exception would be the 7.62x39 when custom loaded for short range and 125 to 150gr premium
hunting bullets.
We should not compare it to the 30-30 because the modern 30-30 is way ahead of those small 30 calibers.
If 22 caliber is an issue, the 6x45 and 6mm TCU are as easy as they come and improve 25% to 30% performance
w/o doing much. They also stack perfectly in 223 magazines. They use the 223 brass and they are easier to reload
than the 223 itself. There is also the 25x45 but at 100 yards the 6mm already comes on top.
The nice thing about the 6mm is that you have a very nice assortment of bullets specially for hunting in the 80gr
to 100 gr range. Essentially the 6mm starts where the 223 ends with amazing possibilities.
But if one likes the 30 caliber and it has the 7.62x39 one huge advantage is that aside from the cheap steel loads
one can reload premium brass like lapua or hornady and 308 caliber bullets with a 308 expander button and
achieve some nice extra performance. The x39 has the case capacity to play with it.
The calibers I design serve a specific purpose. For example the 35 gunner covers a nice gap in the big game
hunting with a 16" AR. it actually delivers a heavier blow than the 308 winchester from the same barrel
but lighter AR15. In the short distances the socom and BEO will do the same but at 50 yards the 35 is already
ahead of them and it brings the extra reach to 300 yards the socom and BEO do not have.
At 300 yards delivers more punch than the other 30 calibers at the muzzle.
If you want power in a small package with very easy to own the 6.8 is the ticket.
When I go down to TX for business I like to go hunting hogs in farm country. We shoot them with all
sort of calibers but the 6.8 anchors them with one or two hits where the other's fail.
Those little bastards run fast and they are hard to kill. A fast shooting hard hitting caliber is
very desirable in those situations.
A couple of mags are cheap and the bolt should be dedicated for any upper anyway so the argument of
compatible bolts and magazines is kind of silly.
Unless your objective is subsonic loads the 223 loaded with 70 to 80gr bullets delivers more speed and energy.
I think the only exception would be the 7.62x39 when custom loaded for short range and 125 to 150gr premium
hunting bullets.
We should not compare it to the 30-30 because the modern 30-30 is way ahead of those small 30 calibers.
If 22 caliber is an issue, the 6x45 and 6mm TCU are as easy as they come and improve 25% to 30% performance
w/o doing much. They also stack perfectly in 223 magazines. They use the 223 brass and they are easier to reload
than the 223 itself. There is also the 25x45 but at 100 yards the 6mm already comes on top.
The nice thing about the 6mm is that you have a very nice assortment of bullets specially for hunting in the 80gr
to 100 gr range. Essentially the 6mm starts where the 223 ends with amazing possibilities.
But if one likes the 30 caliber and it has the 7.62x39 one huge advantage is that aside from the cheap steel loads
one can reload premium brass like lapua or hornady and 308 caliber bullets with a 308 expander button and
achieve some nice extra performance. The x39 has the case capacity to play with it.
The calibers I design serve a specific purpose. For example the 35 gunner covers a nice gap in the big game
hunting with a 16" AR. it actually delivers a heavier blow than the 308 winchester from the same barrel
but lighter AR15. In the short distances the socom and BEO will do the same but at 50 yards the 35 is already
ahead of them and it brings the extra reach to 300 yards the socom and BEO do not have.
At 300 yards delivers more punch than the other 30 calibers at the muzzle.
If you want power in a small package with very easy to own the 6.8 is the ticket.
When I go down to TX for business I like to go hunting hogs in farm country. We shoot them with all
sort of calibers but the 6.8 anchors them with one or two hits where the other's fail.
Those little bastards run fast and they are hard to kill. A fast shooting hard hitting caliber is
very desirable in those situations.
A couple of mags are cheap and the bolt should be dedicated for any upper anyway so the argument of
compatible bolts and magazines is kind of silly.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Good points.
Other than the 110gr bullets for the 30 carbine those bullet grains in 30 caliber are originally designed
for varmint and velocity like the 308 that takes a 110gr to 3300+ fps.
The 62gr TTSX from a 223 at high speeds delivers a massive blow and penetration.
It really doesn't matter the caliber that much given there is high speed at impact that is how these bullets
work best.
Still for large hogs the 6.8 with 95gr TTSX is hard to beat. But same principal. Speed is the key.
FrankenCub
.338 Win Mag
Any chance you can repost that picture?That is based on the 7.62x39 or Grendel cases. Very easy to form and little trimming.
Here I put 3 x 35 gunner rounds next to other rounds and cats so you can get an idea...
The smeared stuff is sharpie from testing COAL in the chamber.
ProgSpear
.338 Win Mag
I couldn't resist. It fits the OP's requirements, bigger than 5.56 and no bolt change required. 
Gun Review: X-Products AR-15 Can Cannon - The Truth About Guns
Gun Review: X-Products AR-15 Can Cannon - The Truth About Guns
I want one of those so bad but I have no place to shoot it. I doubt my range would appreciate me blasting soda cans and tennis balls everywhere.I couldn't resist. It fits the OP's requirements, bigger than 5.56 and no bolt change required.
Gun Review: X-Products AR-15 Can Cannon - The Truth About Guns
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
I think I blew the entire folder. I will find it
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
I couldn't resist. It fits the OP's requirements, bigger than 5.56 and no bolt change required.
Gun Review: X-Products AR-15 Can Cannon - The Truth About Guns
It shoots almost as flat as the blackout!
Great for serving cold drinks at the golf course!
FrankenCub
.338 Win Mag
Ok, thanks. I thought I seen it before so I came looking for it. At least it wasn't my imagination.
ProgSpear
.338 Win Mag
I hate New York. FUAC!
kev74
20×102mm Vulcan
Ding ding ding! I think we might have a winner!
Now - how to sneak it past the war department.....
1075tech
.338 Win Mag
6.5 Grendel gets my vote. Awesome hunting round and cheap plinking ammo available .
FrankenCub
.338 Win Mag
I'm pretty sure I'm going to go the same route, been looking at complete Grendel uppers but in 20". How much of a benefit will the extra 2" be though?
ManrisFrack
.223 Rem
If you're leaning Grendel look at MSRHunt.com. It isn't very active but there is a lot of good information there and it isn't as biased as 65Grendel.com. They've also been doing group barrel buys from Satern a few times per year.
Change in velocity should be 20 - 25fps per inch according to what I've found. Commercial loads of 123gr AMAX (edit: ELD or SST, they stopped making the AMAX) should be around 2450 to 2500 fps mark with an 18". Most Grendel guys tend to go with long barrels because it's the only way to keep the energy on par with a 16" 6.8
Change in velocity should be 20 - 25fps per inch according to what I've found. Commercial loads of 123gr AMAX (edit: ELD or SST, they stopped making the AMAX) should be around 2450 to 2500 fps mark with an 18". Most Grendel guys tend to go with long barrels because it's the only way to keep the energy on par with a 16" 6.8
FrankenCub
.338 Win Mag
For my next upper I'm not concerned about being a compact 16", this will just be for reaching out. I honestly don't know the specifics benefits, or detractors, between the Grendel and SPC. Only basing it on what some guys I know said about their Grendels, and they are very happy with them. Tight groups and long distances.
I can look into the SPC a bit more but I also NEED to be budget concerned lol.
I can look into the SPC a bit more but I also NEED to be budget concerned lol.
FrankenCub
.338 Win Mag
Something I ran across on another forum I'm on occasionally.
http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa393/Nomercy448/68vs65.png
The Grendel having cheaper ammo might be the deciding factor lol.
Couldn't copy it from the site so added the Photobucket link.
http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa393/Nomercy448/68vs65.png
The Grendel having cheaper ammo might be the deciding factor lol.
Couldn't copy it from the site so added the Photobucket link.
ManrisFrack
.223 Rem
Grendel is a good AR15 caliber - especially for longer distance. It'll carry energy more efficiently than the 6.8 for sure. If I had a longer range than 200 yrds, I'd probably have one. Lord knows I've been tempted more than once.
I don't think that the price difference is going to be significant unless you shoot mostly steel Wolf - which will probably throw tight groups out the window.
The thing you gotta understand about those charts is that you can pick different bullets and make them look a lot different. That 123 has a BC of .510 - it is hands down the best long range bullet you can shoot from a Grendel. The 115 in the 6.8 is a generic plinker with a BC of about 3.2 to 3.5 (depending on brand) - no way in hell I'd choose that bullet to shoot long range in a 6.8 (although there aren't any long range choices that'll match the AMAX/ELD).
It sounds like you'd be better off with the Grendel (long range target - please don't go lobbing it at more than a coyote at 500+ yards). Just understand what you're getting into - it'll cost close to a buck a round to get those tight groups and long distances.
I don't think that the price difference is going to be significant unless you shoot mostly steel Wolf - which will probably throw tight groups out the window.
The thing you gotta understand about those charts is that you can pick different bullets and make them look a lot different. That 123 has a BC of .510 - it is hands down the best long range bullet you can shoot from a Grendel. The 115 in the 6.8 is a generic plinker with a BC of about 3.2 to 3.5 (depending on brand) - no way in hell I'd choose that bullet to shoot long range in a 6.8 (although there aren't any long range choices that'll match the AMAX/ELD).
It sounds like you'd be better off with the Grendel (long range target - please don't go lobbing it at more than a coyote at 500+ yards). Just understand what you're getting into - it'll cost close to a buck a round to get those tight groups and long distances.
FrankenCub
.338 Win Mag
I understand where you're going, I'm not real big on ballistics lol. Just something I never got into researching or learning. I want to do a lot of steel shooting at distance so the cheap steel cased Wolf would be fine for that. I kinda prefer a reactive target so I don't need to be chasing back and forth looking at paper. At roughly $240/1000 that's good steel shooting. Occasionally I don't mind trying to shoot nice tight groups on paper but I don't prefer to do it. Be great to set up a camera system and just look at the monitor though. I don't use Wolf for anything but plinking anyway. As for shooting big game, where I hunt I wouldn't have any shots I'd dare take near 500yds anyway, coyote is different story. Some of the fields the farmers hay are pretty big. They rather me not deer hunt there because they do, but coyote is fair game.
Once we finally get moved over to our other property I'll have a chance to set up a press to reload which should help feed the toys.
I still want a nice large bore AR though but I don't see that happening any time soon. Be great for deer hunting the woods.
Once we finally get moved over to our other property I'll have a chance to set up a press to reload which should help feed the toys.
I still want a nice large bore AR though but I don't see that happening any time soon. Be great for deer hunting the woods.
1075tech
.338 Win Mag
16" Grendel at my elevation here in the Hudson Valley, will get reliable expansion out to 375 yards with the Hornady 123 SST. I can get longer ranges with hand loads or custom factory loads.
Even at our elevation, it will remain supersonic out to 1000.
I wouldn't say the guys at 65Grendel.com are biased, more like purists who are preferential to the SAAMI spec chambers rather than some of the variants. There are a lot of people on there though who have variant chambers.
View attachment 15516
My Grendel did fine on these two doe last year. Granted, they were shot at about 30 yards but I took both in about 15 seconds or less. 1 shot each.
View attachment 15518 my second Grendel that my daughter will probably use this year.
Even at our elevation, it will remain supersonic out to 1000.
I wouldn't say the guys at 65Grendel.com are biased, more like purists who are preferential to the SAAMI spec chambers rather than some of the variants. There are a lot of people on there though who have variant chambers.
View attachment 15516
My Grendel did fine on these two doe last year. Granted, they were shot at about 30 yards but I took both in about 15 seconds or less. 1 shot each.
View attachment 15518 my second Grendel that my daughter will probably use this year.
ManrisFrack
.223 Rem
Purists... now that's a very polite way to put it.
Mine were bigger. 6.8 just kills bigger deer than Grendel. Case closed.
Seriously though, a 16" 6.8 will carry min expansion velocity and 800 ft/lb to 375 yards too but it can be accomplished with half a dozen different hunting bullets from 95gr to 120gr.
Mine were bigger. 6.8 just kills bigger deer than Grendel. Case closed.
Seriously though, a 16" 6.8 will carry min expansion velocity and 800 ft/lb to 375 yards too but it can be accomplished with half a dozen different hunting bullets from 95gr to 120gr.
Uzi
.308 Win
300 blackout is awesome for a small defensive pistol, sbr, or pdw package up to about 200 yards. I find the supersonic rounds more intriguing since there are now so many to choose from and the defensive rounds are pretty hardcore performers. For a rifle setup with a longer barrel used for hunting, I don't see an advantage.
ManrisFrack
.223 Rem
Since this thread drifted toward Grendel, check out AR15 Performance. 18" and 20" SAAMI Grendel barrels, 4150 melonited on sale at $150 and $155 respectively. I don't know if I'll have the will power not to buy one at that price.
ETA: Grendel Bottom of the page.
ETA: Grendel Bottom of the page.
Snappo
6.5 Creedmoor
Wait a little while to see if they make cans legal. I believe that's being pondered. If so, then do 300 Whisper and a nice can from AAC (which is now owned by Freedom Group just like Remington, Marlin, Bushmaster, DPMS, etc). If you have never owned a nice can; you haven't lived! Weapons without headsets and earbuds = WOW! 100x the fun!