New NY compliant semi auto rifle option

[ArmedCorgi]

Just watched the vid and that is pretty cool. Would be neat if they also did a pistol caliber one.

 

[Podmonkey]

Just watched the vid and that is pretty cool. Would be neat if they also did a pistol caliber one.

It would be, but I doubt they will as the Sub 2000 fills that niche.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

It would be, but I doubt they will as the Sub 2000 fills that niche.

thought the sub2000 is not NY legal though?

 

[Podmonkey]

No it isn't. I see your point.

 

[meketrefe]

I doubt that bit of legal minutiae will save you in the NY courts. But as always, do as you do.

LOL.
I guess it would be interesting to see how they apply the word of the law to the rifle in question.
But you can take one of those stock and put the spur dildo too and that is the same as the keltec for the thumbless people.
There are many that could be probably cut on top to provide for more leverage.
But isn't all this reinventing the black powder for many with the FRS working well, I mean functionally talking.
On top with the options to put a very nice hunting style stock in the AKM action that opens to a lot of possibilities with the steel receivers.
So many options, and cheaper.

 

[meketrefe]

thought the sub2000 is not NY legal though?

It is legal.
It is not compliant with the so called assault weapons classification NYS invented.
Lets use the proper terminology.

 

[meketrefe]

They make some interesting designs, I'll givw them that. If they could just improve their QC and expand their production capacity they could enter the mainstream of firearms manufacturers. There are numerous Kel Tec designs I'd like to to own/try. Sub 2000, SU 16, RBD. I'd even like to give their PMR a whirl, despite it's checkered reputation. And assuming I could actually find one for sale!

Back in the day one of my buddies and I got a sub2000 each. Glock mag system.
They worked for a while but after a few thousand rounds they started to fall apart.
His developed a bulge in the barrel. They replaced the barrel but took a long time and the replacement came with a
barrel that had chipped chrome. We left it as it was.

Mine front sight fell off the first day. I fix it myself. After a few weeks and 5 thousand rounds became loose all over.
The trigger guard tilt disengaged and would open after every firing. Ejector worn off, I think poor heat treatment.
Factory said that was normal and to use a bit locktite. That did nothing. I didn't send it in for repairs, I got rid of it.

We concluded the barrels and receiver design, while genuine and cool are not up to the task for any substantial use.

If I am going to tadem with something like a glock and glock magazines to alternate I want glock reliability or at least close to that.
We got the opposite with the sub2000.

If you go to the forums you will hear all sort of mal-functions. Some easy to fix, some need to be sent in. Others claim
great results but they might not shoot much. One thing is clear, the quality is not consistent and the tool is not
up for any serious task. I don't think that it is suitable for plinking given they didn't last thos many rounds.
I have firearms I have been shooting for 30 years and they still work like the first day. That is what I expect from
a firearm with moderate use and preventive maintenance.

I can tell you some issues with the pistols too. Nothing was ever considered for serious duty.

I am not a keltec hater or anything like that. I like the innovation. They are actually great people when you talk to
them on the phone. But I just tell things the way I experience them pragmatically w/o passion.
I still like the SUs even with their little shortcomings.

 

[Podmonkey]

LOL.
I guess it would be interesting to see how they apply the word of the law to the rifle in question.
But you can take one of those stock and put the spur dildo too and that is the same as the keltec for the thumbless people.
There are many that could be probably cut on top to provide for more leverage.
But isn't all this reinventing the black powder for many with the FRS working well, I mean functionally talking.
On top with the options to put a very nice hunting style stock in the AKM action that opens to a lot of possibilities with the steel receivers.
So many options, and cheaper.

I found it much more effective to move personally.

 

[Podmonkey]

Back in the day one of my buddies and I got a sub2000 each. Glock mag system.
They worked for a while but after a few thousand rounds they started to fall apart.
His developed a bulge in the barrel. They replaced the barrel but took a long time and the replacement came with a
barrel that had chipped chrome. We left it as it was.

Mine front sight fell off the first day. I fix it myself. After a few weeks and 5 thousand rounds became loose all over.
The trigger guard tilt disengaged and would open after every firing. Ejector worn off, I think poor heat treatment.
Factory said that was normal and to use a bit locktite. That did nothing. I didn't send it in for repairs, I got rid of it.

We concluded the barrels and receiver design, while genuine and cool are not up to the task for any substantial use.

If I am going to tadem with something like a glock and glock magazines to alternate I want glock reliability or at least close to that.
We got the opposite with the sub2000.

If you go to the forums you will hear all sort of mal-functions. Some easy to fix, some need to be sent in. Others claim
great results but they might not shoot much. One thing is clear, the quality is not consistent and the tool is not
up for any serious task. I don't think that it is suitable for plinking given they didn't last thos many rounds.
I have firearms I have been shooting for 30 years and they still work like the first day. That is what I expect from
a firearm with moderate use and preventive maintenance.

I can tell you some issues with the pistols too. Nothing was ever considered for serious duty.

I am not a keltec hater or anything like that. I like the innovation. They are actually great people when you talk to
them on the phone. But I just tell things the way I experience them pragmatically w/o passion.
I still like the SUs even with their little shortcomings.

That is all very much a shame. People will pay for quality, so it's a shame Kel Tec won't invest in the materials that their innovative designs need to shine. Then again maybe it's intentional, their production capacity is overrun as it is. I'd still be willing to gamble with a PMR though, I think it that interesting.

 

[meketrefe]

I knew I was buying something innovative and potentially less quality but I actually expected
a bit more from it.
But I hear you. I did my contributions. Now others can contribute for the cause.
If they make something reliable, I will buy it but they now have to demonstrate to me they are capable
of doing that. My passion for investing in experimentation is not as strong as it used to be.
As we all know, cheap becomes expensive in the end.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

Mek,

How many rounds would you need to be considered capable? At least as a plinker (moderate use and preventative maintenance)?

 

[meketrefe]

Mek,

How many rounds would you need to be considered capable? At least as a plinker (moderate use and preventative maintenance)?

Until most of the rifling is gone that for a chrome lined 9mm should be at a minimum 50,000 rounds. Might never shoot it but it shoudl be
capable of getting thee for people who only have one plinker gun.
And then you should have the option to easily replace a barrel and in the service life as needed change extractors, firing pin, whatever right.
The barrel changing doesn't have to be a PITA and still we can do it even in the AK.

makes sense?

 

[Marine Cpl]

Until most of the rifling is gone that for a chrome lined 9mm should be at a minimum 50,000 rounds. Might never shoot it but it shoudl be
capable of getting thee for people who only have one plinker gun.
And then you should have the option to easily replace a barrel and in the service life as needed change extractors, firing pin, whatever right.
The barrel changing doesn't have to be a PITA and still we can do it even in the AK.

makes sense?

That's why AR's are great! Not so in lots of common rifles though. At least not according to the average person's ability. I can't change an AK, SKS, or a Mini 14's barrel.

Many won't even shoot a quarter of that but I get what you are saying. It should be easier.

There is a market for that however. Someone may have a need for a compact 26 inch rifle that won't get beat up.

 

[meketrefe]

That's why AR's are great! Not so in lots of common rifles though. At least not according to the average person's ability. I can't change an AK, SKS, or a Mini 14's barrel.

Many won't even shoot a quarter of that but I get what you are saying. It should be easier.

There is a market for that however. Someone may have a need for a compact 26 inch rifle that won't get beat up.

I mean easier even for a gunsmith. The epoxied polymer reciever is a real bad design. Look at the SU16 too once we are done with the barrels
we will have to reinvent the wheel to service them.
with the others yes you need to drill out rivets, break the action with a wrench but prefit barrels can go in and indexed with minimum machine time.
Even a AR15 even unchambered without the extension is machine time but the same as the average bolt action.
Then it is like a lego.

As we look for the perfect gun we have to consider maintenance too. ..or we should consider it anyway.

Everyone loves a 1950s vintage cars. What we don't like is having to wait months of years to have it running again due to hard to find parts
and other headaches. Even vintage things can be simple ...look at some classic rifle designs. They are so simple a caveman can do it.
Savage rifles very old ones are very easy to service. why? because of simplicity.

 

[FRANKIE]

I agree with meketrefe on his view of Keltec products. They do get an "A" for innovation and I respect that. I don't know how far they have come since the first Sub-2k's hit the market. I had a lot of experience shooting the 40 cal. in Glock configuration. Shot very well with 180gr. but less reliable with 165gr. Back then I was waiting for the 45acp to come out. (keeping pace with the competing High point carbine.) Truth is that receiver couldn't even handle the .40 over time. I say this through repeated total disassembly. If you saw the innards of this rifle's receiver, barrel collar, ejector, and hinge system, concern would be an understatement. The 9.5 pound trigger pull will not please every one- if not anyone. Glock and other pistol magazine configurations was a plus, but at the end or the day (the magazine and only the magazine) felt sturdy and reliable. I did love shooting that gun, But it always struck me as an unglorified Sten gun which even in its original steel and weld form, was never glorified to start with.
Just my opinion of course.