Not sure what Trump is thinking. This is going to backfire on him.

[ProgSpear]

Modern science, if it don't fit, you invent shit.
Robin

Jeez Robin, you missed the obvious one...

"Robin Cochrane"

 

[Snappo]

""With vs without? I suspect most of the Trans people in the military already transitioned and so they are just people doing a job. The military benefits from skilled workforce that does their job professionally, irrespective of race, religion, gender, etc.""

So there is no benefit. Ok ,so we covered that , is there additional expenses? You know before I went in we all went to Mepps and did a medical , some guys could not get in , I was rejected by the Marines because of an operation I had on my foot. A lot of people get rejected because of pre exsisting medical conditions , why should trans be above everybody else and have special treatment?

#2 knowing they are much more likely to have depression and suacides how does it benefit the US to put soldiers in combat that might not be safe?

First of all it's MEPS. Not Mepps. Second of all, you were a reject and that perhaps explains why you have hatred for trans people who were actually accepted and are doing a role you wished you could have. Seems hypocritical for you to be down on a trans person being accepted. I bet you wished they would have overlooked the issue with your foot and that you felt even with your foot issue that you could do quality work and help your country. I won't say I was lucky because I just was born genetically such that the military wanted me; but I would tell you that how I elected to use my dick (or not use it) never affected my work in USAF, CT-ANG, or even CAP. I don't care if I work with trans military. Heck; I might have and not even known they were trans. I wasn't the local dick inspector. I had bigger things to worry about in BASIC, and after the community showering at Lackland I don't think I ever saw anyone's dick again.

 

[Marine Cpl]

With vs without? I suspect most of the Trans people in the military already transitioned and so they are just people doing a job. The military benefits from skilled workforce that does their job professionally, irrespective of race, religion, gender, etc. I read that there are an estimated 1,300 to 6,300 trans people in the military already; mostly FTM. That actually surprised me - I figured it would be more MTF just because I think in general it's mostly MTF. Of those 1.3K to 6.3K people, the article by Rand Research said only an estimated 130 needed or wanted GRS. So either the rest already did all the medical stuff, or they just don't want it. The article said the government spends 10x as much on Viagra for the limp-dick guys as they would for those 6.3K trans folks who I assume want hormone pills. I think being transphobic or anti LGBT in general is stupid, and that anyone who is transphobic is therefore an idiot (I wonder if I invented the word - it's showing up as mispelled so I should get credit for a sniglet). People fear what they don't understand. That's why humans fabricated this story about invisible gods changing the course of our species through secret manipulations.

There are no Transgenders in the military you stupid fuck. Will someone not on his ignore list please tell this idiot this.

 

[Snappo]

"2) DSM-V removed Transgender as a mental disorder. IDC-10 added it as a physical disorder and called it Gender Dysphoria"

The left/libs always find a new name. In the past 25 years, I have never heard of so many people who can't get a grip and don't/want to know who they are.
A new name is an easy way out of a difficult position; no matter how it's cut

Don't you wish you had the brain power to be one of the medical doctors that determine classifications in DSM-III, DSM-IV, DSM-V, IDC-9, IDC-10, etc? You know, instead of being an uneducated idiot who can't tell the difference between a mental disorder and a genetic defect? Have you ever wondered why highly educated people make more in a month than you make in a year? It's because they are smart, and you think scientific advancements are a secret plot levyed against your tiny pea brain by the liberal left. And that's not to say we don't need people like you to drop the fries at Wendy's for us; but you shouldn't inject yourself into conversations about genetic abnormalities when you can't even articulate what those are.

 

[Bigfoot]

This is not a complicated subject.

"Freaks should not be celebrated or catered to, or in the US armed services, period."

It's a common sense sort of thing. Simple as that...

 

[Marine Cpl]

Don't you wish you had the brain power to be one of the medical doctors that determine classifications in DSM-III, DSM-IV, DSM-V, IDC-9, IDC-10, etc? You know, instead of being an uneducated idiot who can't tell the difference between a mental disorder and a genetic defect? Have you ever wondered why highly educated people make more in a month than you make in a year? It's because they are smart, and you think scientific advancements are a secret plot levyed against your tiny pea brain by the liberal left. And that's not to say we don't need people like you to drop the fries at Wendy's for us; but you shouldn't inject yourself into conversations about genetic abnormalities when you can't even articulate what those are.

The military doesn't need or employ people with genetic defects.

 

[Robin]

Wull, he was in, er so he claims.
Robin

 

[Robin]

This is too much fun!!!
Robin

 

[dubleuhb]

Well once again we have someone attempting to convince everyone else their intellectual supiority with insults and name calling. I may not have me one of those degrees @Snappo cherishes but I do believe self mutilation to be a mental disorder, no place in the military for it.
You want it, pay for it yourself.

It does make me wonder though since this is the second shitstorm he/she brewed up on this is he trying to justify it for him/herself?
Inquiring minds want to know.

Another thought, if you put someone on ignore do the still get notifications when tagged ?

@Snappo
@Snappo
[emoji12]

 

[holdover]

First of all it's MEPS. Not Mepps. ( forgive it was a while ago) Second of all, you were a reject and that perhaps explains why you have hatred for trans people who were actually accepted and are doing a role you wished you could have.

WOW ,arnt you the judgemental one? You got all that from my foot operation? No. The Army took me, and I did 8 years . I have no issues with trannys because of that .

Seems hypocritical for you to be down on a trans person being accepted. (why?) I bet you wished they would have overlooked the issue with your foot and that you felt even with your foot issue that you could do quality work and help your country. ( Of course and I did) I won't say I was lucky because I just was born genetically such that the military wanted me; but I would tell you that how I elected to use my dick (or not use it) never affected my work in USAF, CT-ANG, or even CAP. I don't care if I work with trans military. (well maybe you like them) Heck; I might have and not even known they were trans. I wasn't the local dick inspector. I had bigger things to worry about in BASIC, and after the community showering at Lackland I don't think I ever saw anyone's dick again.

The thing is , they are mentally weak , They are confused, a lot are suicidal , they don't belong in a combat unit because they can become very unstable, and for the rest of the Joes, they are not going to be as understanding as you might be. They will be teased ridiculed and most certainly wont be helped out as most of them would resent them being there and don't trust them . Its a brotherhood not a sisterhood. Their qualities are not what good soldiers are made of . Personally I don't think they can handle the stresses of combat and en-danger the lives of the men and the success of the mission. due their emotionally confused state. (not their physical ability)

Combat is not the time or place to realize that they make poor soldiers. This isn't about being fair , this is about winning battles this is about the success and future of our country. You can be assured that the enemy is training hard and he is going to try to push you to the breaking point, he is going to send his very best highly motivated soldiers to kill you. the likelihood of him cracking or quiting is far higher than a normal soldier. . they are emotionally unstable. and because of that they are a danger to those around them That's just a fact. Im sorry you refuse to except it. they don't belong on point , especially in high heels they could sprain an ankle.

 

[holdover]

 

[timboy]

 

[holdover]

You think its a great idea to send these things into combat?



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You think sending these men into combat is a good thing ? Are you going to trust this man to bayonet an enemy next to you? You think this is a really good idea? Is he going to continue to fight when half his arm is gone?[/URL][/URL]

 

[holdover]

suck it up has a different meaning to a tranny

 

[Airborneguy]

I keep seeing this "limp dick" Viagra reference everywhere. Seems lefties only think about two things: race and sex.

Let's just kill them all already. Get the inevitable over with.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I'm convinced he's a cross dresser.

 

[Snappo]

The thing is , they are mentally weak , They are confused, a lot are suicidal , they don't belong in a combat unit because they can become very unstable, and for the rest of the Joes, they are not going to be as understanding as you might be. They will be teased ridiculed and most certainly wont be helped out as most of them would resent them being there and don't trust them . Its a brotherhood not a sisterhood. Their qualities are not what good soldiers are made of . Personally I don't think they can handle the stresses of combat and en-danger the lives of the men and the success of the mission. due their emotionally confused state. (not their physical ability)

Combat is not the time or place to realize that they make poor soldiers. This isn't about being fair , this is about winning battles this is about the success and future of our country. You can be assured that the enemy is training hard and he is going to try to push you to the breaking point, he is going to send his very best highly motivated soldiers to kill you. the likelihood of him cracking or quiting is far higher than a normal soldier. . they are emotionally unstable. and because of that they are a danger to those around them That's just a fact. Im sorry you refuse to except it. they don't belong on point , especially in high heels they could sprain an ankle.

Everything you said, you got wrong.
1) You say they are mentally weak; but I think you are wrong. So did Congress. In 2015 they opened every AFSC and MOS to women.
2) I personally don't think they (Trans or CIS females) are weaker or stronger. I saw a picture of a transgender FTM in a Fox news article and the guy had arms thicker than your legs. Looked like Arnold or Frank Zane. That trans kick boxer that's always on TV (don't follow MMA much so don't know her name) - she could kick your ass up one street and down the other.
3) I read many are suicidal because of how they are treated by family, friends and society after they come out. It isn't a default emotion they all have. My best friend in Jr High committed suicide, and a close friend in the military also killed herself (in front of me in fact). They weren't trans and they killed themselves for what I perceive to be really stupid reasons. One due to fear of his dad, the other due to depression about her asshole husband.
4) I'm laughing that you think it's a brotherhood. A fair portion of our military are female. They have been since the Revolutionary War, in fact. First female in Washington's army was a FTM transgender named Deborah Sampson. Presently there are 214K women in the active military, 119K in the reserves, 471K in the national guard, and 1.8 million female veterans (Women in the Military Statistics). Bottom line; it's a sisterhood every bit as much as a brotherhood.
5) You can lie and make believe trans or any other LGBT group are less stable than other active military or vets. Statistics don't prove it out. When you talk about unstable; the doc they killed the waiting room on base - male muslim. OKC bombers - both white males. Guy who killed Chris Kyle - male. The people that raped and murdered that whole village including infants and women in Vietnam - all male (My Lai Massacre). Rape of Nanjing - all males. Every unstable sick event that ever happened in military history was genetic male. Never female, never trans. Rwanda, Nazi Holocaust, Sudan, Uganda, North Korea genocide, Pakistan-India genocide. Every unstable event was thought up by males and executed by males. So I don't think women or trans are unstable. Genetically born males are.
6) No CIS female or Trans female is issued high heel shoes except maybe their dress blues. That's fucking retarded. You really thing women soldiers wear high heals? WTF? Seriously - do you smoke meth?
7) 19 major armies allow Trans soldiers (18 plus USA). England, France, Canada, Israel, Bolivia, Spain, Germany, Netherlands, Australia, New Zealand, Austria, Czech Republic, Thailand, Estonia, Sweden, Finland, Norway, Denmark.

I'm kind of old school - I don't believe women should be put in harm's way. CIS or Trans. I was raised to believe you NEVER hit a woman (let alone shoot her). But I grew up in a different time. Modern women, whether Trans or CIS, want to be part of the military and contribute to the free world. You are wrong to interfere with it; and Trump deserves to be fired for it. And now I am reading that while yesterday his shitstain mission was to fuck with Trans people; today his fuckwit sidekick is going after the Civil Rights Act of 1964; filing an Amicus Brief asserting that gays and lesbians should not be protected by Title VII.

 

[Snappo]

You think its a great idea to send these things into combat?
You think sending these men into combat is a good thing ? Are you going to trust this man to bayonet an enemy next to you? You think this is a really good idea? Is he going to continue to fight when half his arm is gone?

I don't think trans people in the military look like that. In fact I don't think you could identify them. They probably all pass in their selected genders. You are just anti-LGBT; probably due to your religious upbringing. All that shit OT shit about male, female, gay, etc. Iron age stupidity by homophobic goat herders that thought the earth was flat. They were fucking morons.

 

[rsmitty]

Why can't we just get along?

 

[spat]

Not sure exactly how many Trans men and women are in the military (estimated vary from 1K to 6K); but this will get near ZERO support from enlisted and officers and already some Senators are distancing themselves and saying Trump is wrong. ACLU and Lambda Legal are already preparing briefs. No way this stands up in court; and I assume ACLU and Lambda go to the 9th Circuit since it's so liberal.

The weird thing - instead of admitting he is a homophobic puppet of Pence he is blaming it on money. Why doesn't he just say Pence wants it because Jesus told him Trans is a sin? There are only between 1,300 and 6,600 Trans people in the US Military and only an estimated 100 people would even want SRS while in the service. As it stands, all medical for all military accounts for 0.0014% of the military budget and the cost of having Trans in the military is estimated by Rand Research to be $8.4 million per year. A fraction of what the US Military spends on Viagra for erectile dysfunction among active military. DoD spends $42M per year on Viagra.


Is It Legal? If Trump Bans Transgender Military Members, It Might Not Stand up in Court
Lambda Legal, ACLU and others will take Trump to court if he follows through with transgender military ban

McCain criticizes 'unclear' Trump policy on transgender military banCongress, McCain criticize new transgender military policy - CNNPolitics.com

US military blows millions a year on Viagra for its troops
http://nypost.com/2017/07/26/us-military-blows-millions-a-year-on-viagra-for-its-troops/

So, its fine to discriminate against short people, people with disabilities, etc.....
Fine to require left handed people to pretend they're right handed half the time,
But discrimination against transgender is too much ?


There is only 1 question that matters for this, is it worth the effort to accommodate them ? I.e. does the effort required to accommodate trans people worth it for the increase in warfighting ability thry bring.

If it's not worth the effort to accommodate the % of the population that is shorter than 5", why would it be worth it for the tiny % that is legitimately trans ?

Lefties don't get special rifles, trans shouldn't get special accommodation either, and since they will demand it, easiest to just take the pass on including them at all.

In short, you do not have a "right" to join the military, and you may only do so when the military feels you will be a net benefit.

If having a single kidney is a disqualify condition from military service, why shouldn't being trans be ?

 

[Cureforcancer]

There are no Transgenders in the military you stupid fuck. Will someone not on his ignore list please tell this idiot this.

Your welcome... @Willjr75
@Snappo

 

[spat]

In the early 1930's, Hitler put Heinrich Himmler in charge of Concentration Camps. Himmler had Theodor Eicke join the camps together to start the death camps and Himmler worked with others to design the final solution (most notably Hermann Goering and SS General Reinhard Heydrich). Eicke of course is known for running Dauchau before his big promotion. First they took all the LGBT people and banned them from military or government service, banned them owning firearms or businesses; and eventually rounded up all the LGBT along with the Jews, Handicapped, and Gypsies. By the mid 1940's, Germany had exterminated 50,000 LGBT for the crime of being gay. You can see all about it at the Holocaust Museum in Washington.

I doubt highly we will ever witness a Holocaust in USA like happened in early USA history, Germany, Poland, Russia, North Korea, Sudan, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Rwanda, etc. But I do think that banning Transgender people from military service is not the end of this. I believe Trump will next ban Transgender from government employment, will ban filing civil suits against businesses that refuse service to Transgender people, and I think he might ban Trans people owning firearms, applying for FFL's, and owning carry permits. First they came for the Trans.......


First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

That is ridiculous.

The rest of the government needs to follow the ADA, a medical disability cannot be a disqualifying reason to keep someone out of civil service, the military is not so restricted, and for good reason.

A "trans ban" stops with the military.

As for discrimination suits against private businesses, why are some categories of personal charasteristics off limits, and others not ? I have never understood why "skin color" is verboten for making hiring decisions, but hair color is not for instance. You will need to answer that question before you can have a consistent argument for including trans in those protections. My suggestion iss that private business shouldn't be restricted at all, that makes consistency easy

 

[rsmitty]

So, its fine to discriminate against short people, people with disabilities, etc.....
Fine to require left handed people to pretend they're right handed half the time,
But discrimination against transgender is too much ?


There is only 1 question that matters for this, is it worth the effort to accommodate them ? I.e. does the effort required to accommodate trans people worth it for the increase in warfighting ability thry bring.

If it's not worth the effort to accommodate the % of the population that is shorter than 5", why would it be worth it for the tiny % that is legitimately trans ?

Lefties don't get special rifles, trans shouldn't get special accommodation either, and since they will demand it, easiest to just take the pass on including them at all.

In short, you do not have a "right" to join the military, and you may only do so when the military feels you will be a net benefit.

If having a single kidney is a disqualify condition from military service, why shouldn't being trans be ?

Discrimenation against anyone is wrong. I think trans that serve, have and do serve honorably . Let them do their jobs.

 

[Doc8404]

I'm not anti LGB.
I AM anti T.

 

[rsmitty]

I love T's and A's.

 

[spat]

Discrimenation against anyone is wrong. I think trans that serve, have and do serve honorably . Let them do their jobs.

So, they should have to take short people too ?

And people with disabilities ?

Should thry have to provide appropriate accommodation then ?

How about left handed rifles ?

Nope, equality has no place in military. If you are more trouble than you are worth, you're out. While an individual may be worth it (because they will just do their job), T in general have proven that they will demand all sorts of special accomodations, and so as a group they are not worth the trouble for the military to include.

 

[Airborneguy]

I'm not anti LGB.
I AM anti T.

I was going to say the same thing. Actually I always do.

Why gay, leabian and bisexual people allow the trans to be included is beyond me. And while we're on the topic, what the hell is "queers" separate from the rest?

By the end of the decade, I bet 5 more letters get added to that nonsense.

 

[Snappo]

So, its fine to discriminate against short people, people with disabilities, etc.....
Fine to require left handed people to pretend they're right handed half the time,
But discrimination against transgender is too much ?


There is only 1 question that matters for this, is it worth the effort to accommodate them ? I.e. does the effort required to accommodate trans people worth it for the increase in warfighting ability thry bring.

If it's not worth the effort to accommodate the % of the population that is shorter than 5", why would it be worth it for the tiny % that is legitimately trans ?

Lefties don't get special rifles, trans shouldn't get special accommodation either, and since they will demand it, easiest to just take the pass on including them at all.

In short, you do not have a "right" to join the military, and you may only do so when the military feels you will be a net benefit.

If having a single kidney is a disqualify condition from military service, why shouldn't being trans be ?

1) Why shouldn't having a limp dick be a reason to disqualify? Real men have dicks that work. Trump's budget for 2017 has $42 million for Viagra and Cialis. The estimate is that allowing for Trans in the military will have a yearly cost of $8 million all-in as per the Rand Research report delivered to Congress. While it is true that all these little amount of money add up to a big amount of money; why aren't they going after Viagra which has 5x the cost?
2) They are ALREADY accommodated. We aren't talking about new trans applicants - Trump wants to fire the 6,300 trans soldiers that are already in the military doing their jobs and have been doing their jobs for years.
3) There are already military discrimination laws. ACLU will be filing a brief if Trump goes through with his threat of firing 6,300 present active service trans soldiers. Lambda Legal said they are filing too. McCain already told Trump to go fuck himself in no uncertain terms yesterday; and he is on the Senate Armed Services committee. Richard Shelby said he agrees with McCain today, as did 3 other Republican Senators. Now Trump is doing phase 2 of his attack - going after Title VII in an Amicus Brief. His contention is that Civil Rights Act of 1964 doesn't apply to gays and lesbians; and in the brief said that Trump has the right to terminate gays and lesbians from any government job based on sexual preference. This is an LGBT attack and it's well planned and has multiple fronts going on already.

 

[rsmitty]

So, they should have to take short people too ?

And people with disabilities ?

Should thry have to provide appropriate accommodation then ?

How about left handed rifles ?

Nope, equality has no place in military. If you are more trouble than you are worth, you're out. While an individual may be worth it (because they will just do their job), T in general have proven that they will demand all sorts of special accomodations, and so as a group they are not worth the trouble for the military to include.

Wow! Really! Yes, how short is too short? Disabilities? What and how debilitated? Snce when has the armed forces tried to accommodate any recruits? So you think being left handed is a disability , left handed rifles would be great for those that want them.

 

[Snappo]

That is ridiculous.

The rest of the government needs to follow the ADA, a medical disability cannot be a disqualifying reason to keep someone out of civil service, the military is not so restricted, and for good reason.

A "trans ban" stops with the military.

As for discrimination suits against private businesses, why are some categories of personal charasteristics off limits, and others not ? I have never understood why "skin color" is verboten for making hiring decisions, but hair color is not for instance. You will need to answer that question before you can have a consistent argument for including trans in those protections. My suggestion iss that private business shouldn't be restricted at all, that makes consistency easy

It's going to come to a head shortly. Trump went after gays and lesbians today by ordering Sessions to file an Amicus Brief saying the government has the right to discriminate against gays and lesbians because Civil Rights Act of 1964 does not say "sexual orientation" and Trump said Congress could have adjusted Title VII at any time since 1974. All government jobs are next. And Pence has been extremely vocal against LGBT. So maybe he has Pence's ear?