NY compliant AK47 options

[meketrefe]

People can go and do what they were told by NYSP, lawyers and manufactures or they can also go and do whatever they want.
Still there is freedom to choose your own poison. One can learn those facts and follow, or question and ignore them. Your choice.
If you want the tapes or transcripts from NYSP sessions I think you can ask for them in your local Scope or GOA chapter. Perhaps
someone in the gun club has them.

Going into long online arguments and opinions and technicalities about what a detachable magazine is, is just ruminating
and doesn't conduct anywhere nor it changes anything. I understand while the opinions might seem entertaining
it has been a long time since these debates were settled yet the dead horse beating continues after the unSAFE BS act.

Most of the SAFE act arrests with charges would have been crimes under the previous ban and while Cuomo and his gang
want to make more buzz about these meaningless scorecards no prosecutor wants to persecute questionable arbitrary
measures because they know they are of arbitrary nature and they might contradict themselves.
If you still have doubts I suggest you take the time to learn about the actual implementation and perhaps consult with
some senior NYSP and counsels like some of us did at the time. There are also some business that know SAFE act
as they retained legal advice in some of these matters that are still being questioned but will not be ever enforced.

I know you are waiting for "that case" but that case will never come for the reasons explained above. I mean unless
you are caught doing something that it was a crime also under the previous ban. The SAFE act made no difference
other than creating a lot of headaches for legit firearm owners and businesses. Everyone knows that.

IMHO altering the magazine system so it cannot be replaced or removing the auto-loading function defeat the
most important purpose of a semi automatic firearm.
As we know there is no different in the holes a Mini-30 makes vs. what an AK type "salted" carbine makes.

 

[Marine Cpl]

IMHO altering the magazine system so it cannot be replaced or removing the auto-loading function defeat the
most important purpose of a semi automatic firearm.
As we know there is no different in the holes a Mini-30 makes vs. what an AK type "salted" carbine makes.

Amen on this paragraph. I'm not saying it applies to anyone here or perhaps it does but for some, looks are everything at the cost of function.

 

[spat]

People can go and do what they were told by NYSP, lawyers and manufactures or they can also go and do whatever they want.
Still there is freedom to choose your own poison. One can learn those facts and follow, or question and ignore them. Your choice.
If you want the tapes or transcripts from NYSP sessions I think you can ask for them in your local Scope or GOA chapter. Perhaps
someone in the gun club has them.

Going into long online arguments and opinions and technicalities about what a detachable magazine is, is just ruminating
and doesn't conduct anywhere nor it changes anything. I understand while the opinions might seem entertaining
it has been a long time since these debates were settled yet the dead horse beating continues after the unSAFE BS act.

Most of the SAFE act arrests with charges would have been crimes under the previous ban and while Cuomo and his gang
want to make more buzz about these meaningless scorecards no prosecutor wants to persecute questionable arbitrary
measures because they know they are of arbitrary nature and they might contradict themselves.
If you still have doubts I suggest you take the time to learn about the actual implementation and perhaps consult with
some senior NYSP and counsels like some of us did at the time. There are also some business that know SAFE act
as they retained legal advice in some of these matters that are still being questioned but will not be ever enforced.

I know you are waiting for "that case" but that case will never come for the reasons explained above. I mean unless
you are caught doing something that it was a crime also under the previous ban. The SAFE act made no difference
other than creating a lot of headaches for legit firearm owners and businesses. Everyone knows that.

IMHO altering the magazine system so it cannot be replaced or removing the auto-loading function defeat the
most important purpose of a semi automatic firearm.
As we know there is no different in the holes a Mini-30 makes vs. what an AK type "salted" carbine makes.

If the plain unepoxied BB test case never comes, then it is for all practical purpose, legal.

We all know that if an officer and a prosecutor get a hard on, then your thanksgiving turkey could end up being called an AW, $100k later they would offer you a plea to "failure to obey a traffic control device" to avoid setting precedent. The *only* point in jumping through *any* safe act hurdles is to reduce that chance.

The NYSP advice isn't without value, and if you follow it your lawyers should have an easy case, but it still won't be free. The CA BB case Haynie v Pleasanton was about a guy who got arrested and had to post $60k bond who had perfectly followed the CA DOJ guidelines. The case against him was eventually dropped, but when he sued the CA DOJ to get his out of pocket on the bail back (because he had been arrested for something that isn't a crime, as opposed to being arrested for a real crime you didn't happen to commit), their defense was that their guidance said the BB is fine, and it was the individual officers mistake.

So, don't count on the NYSP advice to keep you completely out of trouble, I doubt half of the officers out there even know what it is. You will eventually prevail unless you are caught doing some other dubious crap at the same time, but not until after some serious pain. How much less pain do you really think that epoxy is going to get you ?

 

[Marine Cpl]

If the plain unepoxied BB test case never comes, then it is for all practical purpose, legal.

We all know that if an officer and a prosecutor get a hard on, then your thanksgiving turkey could end up being called an AW, $100k later they would offer you a plea to "failure to obey a traffic control device" to avoid setting precedent. The *only* point in jumping through *any* safe act hurdles is to reduce that chance.

The NYSP advice isn't without value, and if you follow it your lawyers should have an easy case, but it still won't be free. The CA BB case Haynie v Pleasanton was about a guy who got arrested and had to post $60k bond who had perfectly followed the CA DOJ guidelines. The case against him was eventually dropped, but when he sued the CA DOJ to get his out of pocket on the bail back (because he had been arrested for something that isn't a crime, as opposed to being arrested for a real crime you didn't happen to commit), their defense was that their guidance said the BB is fine, and it was the individual officers mistake.

So, don't count on the NYSP advice to keep you completely out of trouble, I doubt half of the officers out there even know what it is. You will eventually prevail unless you are caught doing some other dubious crap at the same time, but not until after some serious pain. How much less pain do you really think that epoxy is going to get you ?

I can agree with you on the NYSP advice. It means nothing.

 

[spat]

Amen on this paragraph. I'm not saying it applies to anyone here or perhaps it does but for some, looks are everything at the cost of function.

Buying or building a rifle now, OFC the Saiga or Thorsden stock, etc makes sense. But for someone who owned a rifle pre-safe, the BB was the quickest, easiest method of insurance that didn't involve mutilating the rifle or shipping it to your buddy in free America for safe keeping.

Another good defense that could be used if it were ever called into court, is that it meets the stated spirit of the law. I can easily reload an unquestionably compliant rifle that uses clips like a Garand or SKS faster than an AK w/ a BB installed.

 

[meketrefe]

I understand the concerns and appreciate opinions but we are past that point.

I has been recognized that nobody wants to persecute those cases because it might be the end for all the BS part of the SAFE act.
Perhaps you are 2A legal counsel, I am not sure, but in any case I would suggest you consult with other people that have devoted
themselves to this and are in line with NYSP and legal counsels. Those people said the 7 rounds will not hold and it didn't. The also said there is
no funding or legal resource for ammo background and it didn't happen neither. And so on. As you know the legality of SAFE is
hanging by a fine thread.
The arrests will continue in order to score for SAFE BS but nothing without additional cookie cutter violations (things also illegal
with the previous ban, and even before that) will be challenged specially around any of the items already discussed
because it is not in the best interest for anyone. Because of the arbitrary nature of the law and the responses the last thing
they want is to contradict themselves that is what it most likely happen should they want to challenge. That is why they wont.
Plus what are they going to do with everything that has been sold by the thousands since SAFE act? Say some NYSP and lawyers were right and
other NYSP and lawyers were wrong? They simply will not do that.

I am off the thread. There is no much more I can say. The status quo is pretty clear to me and others who met with them and followed this very closely.

 

[Pissed Off Patriot]

Never have messed with a VEPR, so I don't know much about those. What were those rifles @Pissed Off Patriot had? Yugo rifles or something? They were only slightly modified as I recall.

One is a Yugo AK that I bought just after the SAFE Act passed. I found it in original configuration in a local store, and they just cut the tip off the muzzle brake,removed the pistol grip, pinned the 30 round mag to 10 rounds, and I took it home. Recently I added a spur (and spur adapter) to it.

The other two are VEPR's, one in 7.62x54r which I had shipped to my FFL from Classic Firearms, and the other in 5.45x39 which I had shipped to my FFL from Florida. In both cases, all that was needed to make them legal was to fill in the thumbhole, which I did with a piece of scrapwood fixed in place, then coated with JB Weld, and then covered the abomination with some scraps of leather to make it more presentable.

 

[JosERW]

We really need to get our rights back. These laws are absurd.

 

[libertysnake]

Not sure if this helps at all, but I was thinking of picking up a rifle from these guys:

WBP Polish Premium Fixed AK-47 (NY SAFE ACT) – (CA 2017 FEATURELESS) | Lee Armory

Anyone know if the AR > AK adapter + Spur grip has run into any issues with NYSP, such as in the rifles from Lee Amory?

 

[Airborneguy]

Wouldn't those be pushing the definition of "below the action" as far as that weird-ass grip?

 

[libertysnake]

Wouldn't those be pushing the definition of "below the action" as far as that weird-ass grip?

It's just a spur grip, and it isn't obviously or "conspicuously" protruding below the trigger guard -- it's pretty much in line with it.

Still, I'm not sure if NYSP is getting out a measuring tape when it comes to these modifications, which is why I ask. Anyone know of cases with spur grips like these?

 

[Airborneguy]

Doesn't the law say "below the action" though?

 

[Airborneguy]

“‘Assault weapon means a semiautomatic rifle that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least one of the following characteristics: (1) a folding or telescoping stock; (2) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon; (3)

With the AR design, the spur arguably does not extend below the action. But on the AK, it is clearly below the action, even from the base of the spur. I'd be real careful with that option.

 

[Pissed Off Patriot]

AR's have been sold at gun shows in NY for years now with spur grips. This is no different.

Cuomo can kiss my swamp ass crack all day long. There is nothing he can do to touch me which is why I put these pictures of my AK patterned rifles up on the internet for everyone to see.

 

[libertysnake]

With the AR design, the spur arguably does not extend below the action. But on the AK, it is clearly below the action, even from the base of the spur. I'd be real careful with that option.

It's also in line with the mag release switch. Which is still part of the action, no?

 

[libertysnake]

AR's have been sold at gun shows in NY for years now with spur grips. This is no different.

Cuomo can kiss my swamp ass crack all day long. There is nothing he can do to touch me which is why I put these pictures of my AK patterned rifles up on the internet for everyone to see.

Have you ever had any LEO look at the rifle before and leave you alone? I'm trying to look to see what previous cases have been with the AK spur.

 

[libertysnake]

With the AR design, the spur arguably does not extend below the action. But on the AK, it is clearly below the action, even from the base of the spur. I'd be real careful with that option.

Also it does say "conspicuously protrudes" below the action as well. So that implies there is some degree to which it has to protrude in order to be the case -- although how much it does, I'm unsure.

 

[Pissed Off Patriot]

Have you ever had any LEO look at the rifle before and leave you alone? I'm trying to look to see what previous cases have been with the AK spur.

I've never had the rifle in a place where NYSP have been, but I wouldn't give a rats ass if they did. It's an AR spur, the same spur that's sold on AR's and yes, on AK's at gun shows in NY. I have personally seen AK's sold at NY gun shows with this set up within the past year where law enforcement was present.

FUAC and kiss my Assault Stick too. Andy-Boy can't touch me!

 

[libertysnake]

I've never had the rifle in a place where NYSP have been, but I wouldn't give a rats ass if they did. It's an AR spur, the same spur that's sold on AR's and yes, on AK's at gun shows in NY. I have personally seen AK's sold at NY gun shows with this set up within the past year where law enforcement was present.

FUAC and kiss my Assault Stick too. Andy-Boy can't touch me!

You mean with the adapter + spur, you've seen that exact config at gun shows with no issues?

 

[Pissed Off Patriot]

You mean with the adapter + spur, you've seen that exact config at gun shows with no issues?

Yes.

This is how worried about it I am.

I'll post a nice big picture of my Yugo AK action with the spur grip attached so Andy-boy can go piss himself in his shorts.

 

[Pissed Off Patriot]

With that said, I absolutely fucking hate the spur grip. There's nothing to hold on to with your trigger hand. This means less control of the rifle.

I'd rather shoot my VEPR's all day long. At least there's something to wrap the rest of my fingers around for stability, and VEPR's can be had for cheaper than the rifle you posted above in the link.

 

[libertysnake]

With that said, I absolutely fucking hate the spur grip. There's nothing to hold on to with your trigger hand. This means less control of the rifle.

I'd rather shoot my VEPR's all day long. At least there's something to wrap the rest of my fingers around for stability, and VEPR's can be had for cheaper than the rifle you posted above in the link.

Is the spur grip really that bad?

I've also heard you're not allowed to "modify" weapons -- but I think the source I got was unreliable. Namely, you surely are allowed to replace furniture with other compliant furniture, right? IE, if I wanted to move from Spur > The grip on your VEPR, I'd be able to do that?

 

[Pissed Off Patriot]

Is the spur grip really that bad?

It's not that it's harder to shoot really. There is just no way to "safely" pick up a rifle with your trigger hand like you can with a pistol grip. With my VEPR's, I can grab that stock with my trigger hand and pick the rifle up and maneuver it around, in spite of the VEPR being a heavier rifle than your normal AK due to the 50% thicker receiver and heavy barrel.

I've also heard you're not allowed to "modify" weapons -- but I think the source I got was unreliable. Namely, you surely are allowed to replace furniture with other compliant furniture, right? IE, if I wanted to move from Spur > The grip on your VEPR, I'd be able to do that?

I don't know how you'd do that, since the VEPR has a slant cut receiver, and the AK does not. It would have to be a custom modified stock, like what @meketrefe has done in his thread....

Kalash build NY compliant for special purpose rifle

 

[libertysnake]

I don't know how you'd do that, since the VEPR has a slant cut receiver, and the AK does not. It would have to be a custom modified stock, like what @meketrefe has done in his thread....

Kalash build NY compliant for special purpose rifle

Right, but NYS does allow you to change up compliant > compliant furniture, or compliant parts > compliant parts yes?

 

[Marine Cpl]

Right, but NYS does allow you to change up compliant > compliant furniture, or compliant parts > compliant parts yes?

Yes. It's not that they allow you. It's that it isn't written in the law that you cannot.

You have to go by the law as written if you want to be compliant.

 

[Pissed Off Patriot]

Yes. It's not that they allow you. It's that it isn't written in the law that you cannot.

You have to go by the law as written if you want to be compliant.

Exactly.

I bought my AK pattern rifles after the SAFE Act was passed. As they were in an "illegal" configuration when they were at the FFL, they were still allowed to be possessed by the FFL because the law allows it, I just couldn't take possession of them until they were modified to be legal to own by such a lowly peon as myself.

Which I did, as publicly as possible, to show that it can be done. You can still own AK's, as much as Cuomo wants to try and ban them.

 

[libertysnake]

Exactly.

I bought my AK pattern rifles after the SAFE Act was passed. As they were in an "illegal" configuration when they were at the FFL, they were still allowed to be possessed by the FFL because the law allows it, I just couldn't take possession of them until they were modified to be legal to own by such a lowly peon as myself.

Which I did, as publicly as possible, to show that it can be done. You can still own AK's, as much as Cuomo wants to try and ban them.

Right, but if you are purchasing a legal rifle, and making modifications to the rifle, is that allowed? Namely, if I replace the furniture config, and go from compliant > compliant, on an existing compliant rifle, is that allowed? Such as replacing all the furniture, or the grip with another style (IE monsterman) grip or something like that?

Or if I replace the trigger group with another trigger group, so long as I'm still within the max amount of 922r parts, is that allowed?

 

[Pissed Off Patriot]

Right, but if you are purchasing a legal rifle, and making modifications to the rifle, is that allowed? Namely, if I replace the furniture config, and go from compliant > compliant, on an existing compliant rifle, is that allowed? Such as replacing all the furniture, or the grip with another style (IE monsterman) grip or something like that?

Or if I replace the trigger group with another trigger group, so long as I'm still within the max amount of 922r parts, is that allowed?

I've "modified" my AK since I bought it. It originally came without a pistol grip, as the pistol grip made it illegal. I added the spur grip a couple years later.

You can change out any parts you want, as long as the rifle still remains compliant.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Why wouldn't it be? It's not written anywhere in the law that you cannot. My post above already states this. You have to go by the law.

The rifle is either in a legal configuration as per the law or it's not.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Why not go with a Saiga instead to avoid all this nonsense?

You wouldn't have to change anything as far as legality is concerned and since it has a conventional grip, you can actually hold it one handed while opening doors, changing magazines, and a slew of other things that you will need to do with your free hand.

The Spur is only good for a bench rest rifle in my opinion.