Celt
.338 Win Mag
Life in a May Issue State: An Upstate NY Doctor's Story of the Gun Control Buraucracy - The Truth About Guns
This is really messed up.
@Phazer
@Dr. Evil
This is really messed up.
@Phazer
@Dr. Evil
Last edited:
Ny doctor denied ccw
- Thread starter Celt
- Start date
Bananabandit
.338 Win Mag
@Dr. Evil seewhat you did
Shadow2
6.5 Creedmoor
Why should he be any different then the many denied? Saratoga has been know to be bad, it was as bad as Weschester until a new judge came in and implemented a way to get full carry.
Take your TV appearance money and court appearance cash and file a law suite.
Take your TV appearance money and court appearance cash and file a law suite.
dwa12479
.338 Win Mag
SHALL. NOT. BE. INFRINGED.
masterswimmer
.450/400 Nitro Ex
NYS's version of the 2A is actually even more rigid. Yet 'they' ignore that too.
New York Civil Rights Law article II, § 4 provides that “[a] well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms cannot be infringed.”
FUAC
So you are in Westchester and know that many get denied here in Saratoga County?
Phazer
.338 Win Mag
Here's a question: If a physician gets denied for a carry permit, shouldn't the judge also be required to start proceedings to revoke that doctor's medical license? After all, physicians perform procedures that can kill, they give medications that can kill, and they can decide not to render therapies which can kill by inaction. If the physician cannot be trusted with a concealed firearm, how can they be allowed to affect patients' lives on a daily basis? Conversely, if the physician is allowed to continue to practice medicine, shouldn't they be allowed to carry a pistol?
Robin
.475 A&M Magnum
Obviously a man of means. Just on principle alone he should hire a lawyer and fight this on every legal level that has been violated, of which there are many starting with the requirement for a permit in the first place, the judge not following state mandated procedures, and a crap load of other unconstitutional miscellanea in between. Heck, if he's a tight wad and doesn't want to spend money on a lower he can file an 'order of show cause', which is not an appeal and is a legal procedure, with the court on his own and prepare a civil suit against the judge and the very system itself, that might cause the judge to reverse himself in and of itself, beings how the judge surely knows he is in the wrong. Even still if that were to happen and he received a permit he should continue with the suit. There are many forms of corruption and this may be the most insidious.
Robin
Robin
Celt
.338 Win Mag
I would just love to see a legal challenge to the permitting system that could actually get the system changed.
Depick
.308 Win
Something like this happened to my doctor. Long story short he got a lawyer and got his PP.
fartgamer
.223 Rem
That hasn’t been the case in decades at the least. It feels good to say it but let’s be real, it’s been infringed thousands of times.
No matter what this guy says one of his references burned him! I'm one of the instructors with one of the groups that give the safety class, and our Judge is very fair!
Celt
.338 Win Mag
That would be pretty messed up.
Celt
.338 Win Mag
You see here's the problem it shouldn't be denied in the first place, and if you have to get a lawyer to get it approved you should be able to sue the permitting office for the cost of the lawyer fees. That might make these assholes less inclined to just deny people on a whim. It's ridiculous that they force law-abiding citizens to have to go through that, and many cannot afford to.
Yes! But it does happen.
Depick
.308 Win
I agree he shouldn’t have been denied my Doc is an incredibly smart and respectable man. I hate that people have to get lawyers but to me it’s better to fight than to give up. And yes if a denial is found to be arbitrary they should be able to recoup their legal costs. This whole PP process is so screwed up.
kev74
20×102mm Vulcan
Regardless of what happened with his references, they didn't tell him he was declined until after the appeal period passed by. That's as shady as hell, and likely criminal.
I hope he fights this. NRA news had a piece on this, but not a whole lot more detail.
I hope he fights this. NRA news had a piece on this, but not a whole lot more detail.
ArmedCorgi
.475 A&M Magnum
It's always a friend that hates you most.
It is why you really need rock solid references. Odds are one of his was and is a two faced bastard, who says and does one thing to his face, and then behind his back either actually dislikes him for some reason, or else secretly hates guns and gun owners.
He should file a FOIA request to obtain his PPO application file. It should contain his reference letters and or interviews, and may just show him if one of them burned him behind his back.
That aside, the system sucks, and his opportunity to appeal was burned by their actions.
I hope he takes them to task, gives them some heartburn, and maybe even wins.
He should file a FOIA request to obtain his PPO application file. It should contain his reference letters and or interviews, and may just show him if one of them burned him behind his back.
That aside, the system sucks, and his opportunity to appeal was burned by their actions.
I hope he takes them to task, gives them some heartburn, and maybe even wins.
kev74
20×102mm Vulcan
Its also possible the issuing officer had it out for the guy and and whatever the references put down just wasn't good enough.
The whole system - the secrecy, the lack of accountability and the unlimited discretion afforded to the licensing officials - is disgraceful and begging to be abused.
The whole system - the secrecy, the lack of accountability and the unlimited discretion afforded to the licensing officials - is disgraceful and begging to be abused.
Absolutely. There is no accountability -- the investigating officer has no available notes, the judge gets to make political statements with their issuing habits, each county's application process is different (even at a city level), it's slow, most counties require applicants to disclose private medical information to cops, and the list goes on.
It's a terrible system based on the suspicion that none of us can be trusted, and that we must leave it up to a few overworked cops, and politically objective judges to decide whether one is "worthy" of even just owning a handgun.
Shadow2
6.5 Creedmoor
Bozo
.45 acp
Is it possible "References were not supportive" could mean one of them flaked and never called the investigating officer back?
Regardless, the whole process is unconstitutional on its face. Completely arbitrary from one county to the next. Shall issue is the only permitting system that is remotely in keeping with 2A, and even that is a stretch.
Are your family members involved with the pistol license office or the Judge? Or Instructors in the pistol safety classes as I am? So I ask are speaking from knowledge or opinion?
Shadow2
6.5 Creedmoor
Simple answer is yes ...
I'm not sure which part of my statement you have issue with. FACT Saratoga was as bad as Weschester until the new process was implemented. So why would this Doctor be any different then those denied prior to the new process or like the people denied in Westchester?
I'm also aware that a select few places have been allowed to offer the classes in the area, which seems very convenient.
I'm not sure which part of my statement you have issue with. FACT Saratoga was as bad as Weschester until the new process was implemented. So why would this Doctor be any different then those denied prior to the new process or like the people denied in Westchester?
I'm also aware that a select few places have been allowed to offer the classes in the area, which seems very convenient.
Okay I will give you a little history! Prior to 2013 election of the new Sheriff, yes there was 1 instructor giving the pistol safety class (and a large backlog to get into the class) and the previous Judges only issued Hunting/Target licenses! When the new Sheriff was running he got a lot of complaints about this process and was approached by some other NRA instructors that they were also qualified to give these classes! A new class was designed and there were then 3 outlets with shorter class ( from 8 hours two days to a 5 hour one day class)
Now as far as the class for a unrestricted license that was a whole other issue that had to do with a new Judge that was receptive to the idea as long as it require passing a class that went over knowledge of article 35 and passing a live fire qualification.
So my issue with your statement is you do not have all the information that you think you have!
Shadow2
6.5 Creedmoor
Your explanation just supported my statement. So I'm still very much confused as to what you had issue with.
Not at all! first it was the many DENIED (BS) that was my biggest issue!
Then you say it was the new Judge reread my post just above!