NY SAFE Act And Its Recertification Fiasco

[ArmedCorgi]

By not compling I'm talking about not following through with revocation requests handed down by the state police.

 

[tirwin1]

The county clerks and staff are rightly concerned because they bear the brunt of any blowback. Renewing online is very straightforward and when I checked online a few weeks later I received confirmation. I am curious to see what the backlash will be. I am convinced the state is looking for a test case where they can revoke the license and confiscate pistols. My sense is the vast majority of the county clerks want nothing to do with this (the exceptions being the a-holes in anti-gun counties). What will happen when the first test case is brought by the state? That is the interesting question.

 

[Deplorable Me]

You get a confirmation number online if it goes through that you can print out. You don't get a confirmation by snail mail. Even a signed return receipt means nothing. They can claim you sent them an empty envelope.

Then screw them, apparently I have no guns either. A printout confirmation can be forged too. Piss on these petty little bureaucratic functionaries. The whole of Albany is incompetent and their IT system is subject to a hackers scorn. Russian hackers to boot!

 

[Deplorable Me]

 

[Marine Cpl]

Then screw them, apparently I have no guns either. A printout confirmation can be forged too. Piss on these petty little bureaucratic functionaries. The whole of Albany is incompetent and their IT system is subject to a hackers scorn. Russian hackers to boot!

Right it can be but with the confirmation number you have the ability to check your status by entering it in on their website.

 

[VietnamEraVet]

You mean the county clearks and judges who take 16 months to approve or deny, or refuse to issue anything other than a restricted license, or no license at all, or do some made up shit of having to approve every amendment someone adds to their license and in turn takes weeks if not months to do for each one. Yeah pretty sure they don' give a fuck.

And pretty sure if they plan to enforce this more they will be using the NYSP who have proven time and time again they will do Cuomo bidding on the safe act

Hadn't even thought about that, but I'm pretty certain that while the Erie County PPO takes about 12-18 months to process the average permit, what do you bet that if FUAC demands that they revoke permits, that they will do that pretty much overnight?

 

[SmallGameAddict]

Hadn't even thought about that, but I'm pretty certain that while the Erie County PPO takes about 12-18 months to process the average permit, what do you bet that if FUAC demands that they revoke permits, that they will do that pretty much overnight?

That, and NYS law states counties have 6 months max to issue or deny a PP. Very widely ignored. Excuses galore. Funny a cop can check your background on his patrol car computer in about 2.3 seconds.

 

[Edwardteach72]

That, and NYS law states counties have 6 months max to issue or deny a PP. Very widely ignored. Excuses galore. Funny a cop can check your background on his patrol car computer in about 2.3 seconds.

new york stat law also states they can take longer if they provide a valid reason

 

[VietnamEraVet]

new york stat law also states they can take longer if they provide a valid reason

Sticking your application in a file drawer for a year is not a valid reason in my opinion.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Sticking your application in a file drawer for a year is not a valid reason in my opinion.

i didnt say that was. and you would have to prove thats what they did vs them saying something along the lines of excessive applicants

 

[SmallGameAddict]

Sticking your application in a file drawer for a year is not a valid reason in my opinion.

Agreed. 12-18 months to process a PP is a totally ridiculous time frame IMO. 30 days yes or no is more like it. It's to carry a handgun, not a nuclear device.

 

[nortatoga]

I mean, with local government pushing back against state government it would seem to change the dynamic somewhat. We aren't just talking about people not recertifying we are talking about the added grievences from the counties. There is the potential for the state to not get recerts and hand down the order to the counties to revoke and confiscate only to have the issuing officers not revoke peoples permits. That would effectively stop this whole thing in its tracks. Right? Not that I have any faith. But if licensing officers refuse to revoke could the state then override the licensing officer and do the revoke/confiscation themselves?

If the issuing officer (Judge) refuses to revoke a license the state will apply a Mandamus!

Mandamus
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mandamus ("We command") is a judicial remedy in the form of an order from a superior court,[1] to any government subordinate court, corporation, or public authority, to do (or forbear from doing) some specific act which that body is obliged under law to do (or refrain from doing), and which is in the nature of public duty, and in certain cases one of a statutory duty. It cannot be issued to compel an authority to do something against statutory provision. For example, it cannot be used to force a lower court to reject or authorize applications that have been made, but if the court refuses to rule one way or the other then a mandamus can be used to order the court to rule on the applications.

Mandamus may be a command to do an administrative action or not to take a particular action, and it is supplemented by legal rights. In the American legal system it must be a judicially enforceable and legally protected right before one suffering a grievance can ask for a mandamus. A person can be said to be aggrieved only when he or she is denied a legal right by someone who has a legal duty to do something and abstains from doing it.

 

[Tinman]

How are the bad guys going to recertify their handguns?

 

[E the massive]

How are the bad guys going to recertify their handguns?

Same way they got their permits.

 

[Deplorable Me]

Right it can be but with the confirmation number you have the ability to check your status by entering it in on their website.

Let Andy check it, his damn law.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

If the issuing officer (Judge) refuses to revoke a license the state will apply a Mandamus!

Mandamus
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mandamus ("We command") is a judicial remedy in the form of an order from a superior court,[1] to any government subordinate court, corporation, or public authority, to do (or forbear from doing) some specific act which that body is obliged under law to do (or refrain from doing), and which is in the nature of public duty, and in certain cases one of a statutory duty. It cannot be issued to compel an authority to do something against statutory provision. For example, it cannot be used to force a lower court to reject or authorize applications that have been made, but if the court refuses to rule one way or the other then a mandamus can be used to order the court to rule on the applications.

Mandamus may be a command to do an administrative action or not to take a particular action, and it is supplemented by legal rights. In the American legal system it must be a judicially enforceable and legally protected right before one suffering a grievance can ask for a mandamus. A person can be said to be aggrieved only when he or she is denied a legal right by someone who has a legal duty to do something and abstains from doing it.

I'm confused by this. Maybe I'm just not understanding correctly but this seems like its specific to the judiciary and not the state. I read that to mean a high court can force a lower court, corporation or public authority to take action where there is a judicially enforceable, legally protected right being violated. Not that the public authority can force a court to do something. So a higher court can maybe use this to try and make permit issuing judges apply the part of the Safe act concerning the revocations, but how does that jive with protected legal rights when they will take long guns, which you don't need a permit for, also? This is just a big mess we have here.

 

[Deplorable Me]

How are the bad guys going to recertify their handguns?

Probably just borrow yours and mine.

 

[nortatoga]

I'm confused by this. Maybe I'm just not understanding correctly but this seems like its specific to the judiciary and not the state. I read that to mean a high court can force a lower court, corporation or public authority to take action where there is a judicially enforceable, legally protected right being violated. Not that the public authority can force a court to do something. So a higher court can maybe use this to try and make permit issuing judges apply the part of the Safe act concerning the revocations, but how does that jive with protected legal rights when they will take long guns, which you don't need a permit for, also? This is just a big mess we have here.

That's a separate legal battle.

 

[VietnamEraVet]

i didnt say that was. and you would have to prove thats what they did vs them saying something along the lines of excessive applicants

I didn't say you said it was. Actually, the people in the PPO are quite open about the fact that much of their delay is while the applicant's file is buried in boxes for almost a year or so. It's beyond a major clusterfuck.

 

[livingston]

I had a friend call me about reregistering . He said he never received a notice about needing to do this ...He knew because of the gun club he goes to ... However how many tens of thousands have not a clue .....

 

[Deplorable Me]

I had a friend call me about reregistering . He said he never received a notice about needing to do this ...He knew because of the gun club he goes to ... However how many tens of thousands have not a clue .....

To think the forms are only printed in English too. Do they think only English speaking people have pistol permits?

 

[Fezzik]

I had a friend call me about reregistering . He said he never received a notice about needing to do this ...He knew because of the gun club he goes to ... However how many tens of thousands have not a clue .....

Yep, I have had people asd the same. In fact, there are some people out there that don't realize that they STILL have have permits. Conversation usually starts something like "I used to have a permit years ago when I belonged to XYZ conservation club."

 

[livingston]

Yep, I have had people asd the same. In fact, there are some people out there that don't realize that they STILL have have permits. Conversation usually starts something like "I used to have a permit years ago when I belonged to XYZ conservation club."

Number one reason for this ... to ensnare as many folks as possible .

 

[holdover]

Its their mess , let them clean it up. you guys are acting like its the end of the world. Fuck em, let em send you notification first.

I hate to say it, but you guys are the first ones to comply with the safe act. You all have a lot of anger, but don't do squat when push comes to shove. MOLON LABE my ass, If King Cuomo and merry men want to take the guns , then let them come and take them ,, let him arrest your grandpa see what kind of fucked up mess he creates. If your not willing to go to jail for your convictions your certainly not ready to die for them either. And if you aint ready to do that , then guys like Cuomo are going to have a fucking field day because they know they can get away with anything .

Its going to get a lot worse unless you tell yourself your ready to make a stand , if not , Theres no way the 2nd survives .Sending 100 bucks to the NRA every year aint cutting the mustard. Resist or comply, that's it. But if you comply I don't want to hear about bad the guns laws are here. Who do you think is going to stand up for you? Whos going to save you? Fucking nobody, that's who. You want things to change? Then start fucking changing them.At least the ragheads had the stones to say no. They took up arms against an overwhelming enemy, knowing they aint coming back because they actually believed they were doing the right thing. The Guys here in NY are afraid to miss a day of work.

Let the fucking idiot start arresting people in mass like they did in Germany, let see how that plays out for him . And I got some playoff tickets if you want to buy them too.

 

[holdover]

I had a friend call me about reregistering . He said he never received a notice about needing to do this ...He knew because of the gun club he goes to ... However how many tens of thousands have not a clue .....

That's the beauty of it, let the arresting begin.

 

[GOPerfect]

That, and NYS law states counties have 6 months max to issue or deny a PP. Very widely ignored. Excuses galore. Funny a cop can check your background on his patrol car computer in about 2.3 seconds.

Not exactly, there is a maximum of six months to issue or deny once the Issuing Authority receives the packet. It may take up to a year before the Judge actually gets the paperwork.

Either way, much too long in NY State.

 

[Darth]

Its their mess , let them clean it up. you guys are acting like its the end of the world. Fuck em, let em send you notification first.

I hate to say it, but you guys are the first ones to comply with the safe act. You all have a lot of anger, but don't do squat when push comes to shove. MOLON LABE my ass, If King Cuomo and merry men want to take the guns , then let them come and take them ,, let him arrest your grandpa see what kind of fucked up mess he creates. If your not willing to go to jail for your convictions your certainly not ready to die for them either. And if you aint ready to do that , then guys like Cuomo are going to have a fucking field day because they know they can get away with anything .

Its going to get a lot worse unless you tell yourself your ready to make a stand , if not , Theres no way the 2nd survives .Sending 100 bucks to the NRA every year aint cutting the mustard. Resist or comply, that's it. But if you comply I don't want to hear about bad the guns laws are here. Who do you think is going to stand up for you? Whos going to save you? Fucking nobody, that's who. You want things to change? Then start fucking changing them.At least the ragheads had the stones to say no. They took up arms against an overwhelming enemy, knowing they aint coming back because they actually believed they were doing the right thing. The Guys here in NY are afraid to miss a day of work.

Let the fucking idiot start arresting people in mass like they did in Germany, let see how that plays out for him . And I got some playoff tickets if you want to buy them too.

You just brought a tear to my eye sir. :')

 

[ProgSpear]

Just wondering... Why is there not a civil rights class action lawsuit on behalf of EVERY singe PP holder in NYS against Cuomo, Shiedelmann, and every person who voted for this abortion of a law citing violation of their constitutional rights? I'm not just talking just 2A, but 4A (search and siezure), 5A (due process), 6A(speedy trial), 7A (jury), 8A (excessive fines), and 14A (due process).

If every PP holder and other concerned 2A supporter in the state threw $20 into a legal fund to get some high powered legal talent, I think they could crush this rotten state. Just saying...

Due Process
Substantive due process
Takings

 

[GOPerfect]

Just wondering... Why is there not a civil rights class action lawsuit on behalf of EVERY singe PP holder in NYS against Cuomo, Shiedelmann, and every person who voted for this abortion of a law citing violation of their constitutional rights? I'm not just talking just 2A, but 4A (search and siezure), 5A (due process), 6A(speedy trial), 7A (jury), 8A (excessive fines), and 14A (due process).

If every PP holder and other concerned 2A supporter in the state threw $20 into a legal fund to get some high powered legal talent, I think they could crush this rotten state. Just saying...

Due Process
Substantive due process
Takings

Because the majority of people are lazy and would rather sit back and do nothing more than bitch and complain. Same with voting, getting involved and actually trying to change the status quo.

I like that sometimes though, gives me a reason for the continuing thought of I hate People!

 

[SmallGameAddict]

Its their mess , let them clean it up. you guys are acting like its the end of the world. Fuck em, let em send you notification first.

I hate to say it, but you guys are the first ones to comply with the safe act. You all have a lot of anger, but don't do squat when push comes to shove. MOLON LABE my ass, If King Cuomo and merry men want to take the guns , then let them come and take them ,, let him arrest your grandpa see what kind of fucked up mess he creates. If your not willing to go to jail for your convictions your certainly not ready to die for them either. And if you aint ready to do that , then guys like Cuomo are going to have a fucking field day because they know they can get away with anything .

Its going to get a lot worse unless you tell yourself your ready to make a stand , if not , Theres no way the 2nd survives .Sending 100 bucks to the NRA every year aint cutting the mustard. Resist or comply, that's it. But if you comply I don't want to hear about bad the guns laws are here. Who do you think is going to stand up for you? Whos going to save you? Fucking nobody, that's who. You want things to change? Then start fucking changing them.At least the ragheads had the stones to say no. They took up arms against an overwhelming enemy, knowing they aint coming back because they actually believed they were doing the right thing. The Guys here in NY are afraid to miss a day of work.

Let the fucking idiot start arresting people in mass like they did in Germany, let see how that plays out for him . And I got some playoff tickets if you want to buy them too.

Valley

Its their mess , let them clean it up. you guys are acting like its the end of the world. Fuck em, let em send you notification first.

I hate to say it, but you guys are the first ones to comply with the safe act. You all have a lot of anger, but don't do squat when push comes to shove. MOLON LABE my ass, If King Cuomo and merry men want to take the guns , then let them come and take them ,, let him arrest your grandpa see what kind of fucked up mess he creates. If your not willing to go to jail for your convictions your certainly not ready to die for them either. And if you aint ready to do that , then guys like Cuomo are going to have a fucking field day because they know they can get away with anything .

Its going to get a lot worse unless you tell yourself your ready to make a stand , if not , Theres no way the 2nd survives .Sending 100 bucks to the NRA every year aint cutting the mustard. Resist or comply, that's it. But if you comply I don't want to hear about bad the guns laws are here. Who do you think is going to stand up for you? Whos going to save you? Fucking nobody, that's who. You want things to change? Then start fucking changing them.At least the ragheads had the stones to say no. They took up arms against an overwhelming enemy, knowing they aint coming back because they actually believed they were doing the right thing. The Guys here in NY are afraid to miss a day of work.

Let the fucking idiot start arresting people in mass like they did in Germany, let see how that plays out for him . And I got some playoff tickets if you want to buy them too.

Valley Forge, it seems, has been forgotten. From one veteran to another, thank you for your service.