NY stopping issuing permits for around 7+ months??

[Jmac00]

I can't wait til this new stuff goes to court, in three years

My permit doesn't "renew" until 2024, I think. This shit started in 2018, right?

 

[nortatoga]

I can't wait til this new stuff goes to court, in three years

My permit doesn't "renew" until 2024, I think. This shit started in 2018, right?

It couldn't hurt for you to try and recert now.

 

[BerettaGuy]

The "fruit of the poisonous tree" theory says that once evidence is tainted by an illegal act or violation of the rules of evidence, everything gained by that error is inadmissible and must be destroyed.

The Showing of "cause" was deemed unconstitutional. Did you show cause? I had to show cause. Now every handgun I own is listed in the State Police Office of the Gun Squad in Albany.
We were violated by our own state government.

I was to see a lawsuit that goes after the whole of Article 400 and the destruction of all that gun data that was obtained illegally. You cannot have confiscation without a register of what needs to be confiscated.

 

[Jmac00]

The "fruit of the poisonous tree" theory says that once evidence is tainted by an illegal act or violation of the rules of evidence, everything gained by that error is inadmissible and must be destroyed.

The Showing of "cause" was deemed unconstitutional. Did you show cause? I had to show cause. Now every handgun I own is listed in the State Police Office of the Gun Squad in Albany.
We were violated by our own state government.

I was to see a lawsuit that goes after the whole of Article 400 and the destruction of all that gun data that was obtained illegally. You cannot have confiscation without a register of what needs to be confiscated.

if you're not in the state (moved) you don't have to worry about this kind of bullshit

I keep thinking like a New Yorker, and Im not. I still have property here (until it gets sold) but I really don't give a shit. Most of my guns are in free, constitutional carry states, I have a couple long guns, and a couple hand guns, but most of my stuff is not in NY, so I really don't care.

 

[Jmac00]

The "fruit of the poisonous tree" theory says that once evidence is tainted by an illegal act or violation of the rules of evidence, everything gained by that error is inadmissible and must be destroyed.

The Showing of "cause" was deemed unconstitutional. Did you show cause? I had to show cause. Now every handgun I own is listed in the State Police Office of the Gun Squad in Albany.
We were violated by our own state government.

I was to see a lawsuit that goes after the whole of Article 400 and the destruction of all that gun data that was obtained illegally. You cannot have confiscation without a register of what needs to be confiscated.

if you're not in the state (moved) you don't have to worry about this kind of bullshit

I keep thinking like a New Yorker, and Im not. I still have property here (until it gets sold) but I really don't give a shit. Most of my guns are in free, constitutional carry states, I have a couple long guns, and a couple hand guns, but most of my stuff is not in NY, so I really don't care.

 

[MothMan]

It couldn't hurt for you to try and recert now.

I did last week. Good till 2027 per NYSP.

 

[MothMan]

if you're not in the state (moved) you don't have to worry about this kind of bullshit

I keep thinking like a New Yorker, and Im not. I still have property here (until it gets sold) but I really don't give a shit. Most of my guns are in free, constitutional carry states, I have a couple long guns, and a couple hand guns, but most of my stuff is not in NY, so I really don't care.

 

[Hochulsucks1234]

Oneida County put a pause on all new permits into August the earliest. Possibly longer as they await instruction from the State Gestapo, I mean State Police, oops.

 

[Truebeliever]

Why would moving the gun out of state be grounds not to issue a permit?


There are tons of people who store their handguns out of state while waiting for a permit to get issued.

Plus, the new SCOTUS ruling makes it clear that the State needs more than an excuse to deny. They need a reason that's clearly defined in the law.

Complying with the law in a way you don't like is not a reason to deny someone a permit they are legally entitled to.

You never had to deal with a licensing office that is anti gun then.
They have a procedure and any deviation from their procedure causes “issues”.
Don’t try to make sense of it.

 

[nortatoga]

I did last week. Good till 2027 per NYSP.

Just did mine a few minutes ago. Had to add to it!

 

[spat]

You never had to deal with a licensing office that is anti gun then.
They have a procedure and any deviation from their procedure causes “issues”.
Don’t try to make sense of it.

Then sue the shit out of them. Name the official personally.

Government officials should be scared shitless of accidentally violating someone's rights.

 

[Truebeliever]

The "fruit of the poisonous tree" theory says that once evidence is tainted by an illegal act or violation of the rules of evidence, everything gained by that error is inadmissible and must be destroyed.

The Showing of "cause" was deemed unconstitutional. Did you show cause? I had to show cause. Now every handgun I own is listed in the State Police Office of the Gun Squad in Albany.
We were violated by our own state government.

I was to see a lawsuit that goes after the whole of Article 400 and the destruction of all that gun data that was obtained illegally. You cannot have confiscation without a register of what needs to be confiscated.

Fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine is a little more complicated than that. Yes, if your rights were violated , they can’t use that evidence or evidence obtained because of that violation against you. But it does not mean that evidence is destroyed or that it can’t be used against someone else. For example, the police get a confession out of someone but the confession is “ tossed out” because of a Miranda issue. The body found can’t be used against the person who confessed but the forensic evidence found like DNA could be used against a second suspect ( the killer’s partner). The killer’s partner might not have standing to challenge the Miranda violation because it’s not self incrimination and it was not his rights that were violated.
The database and the info doesn’t have to be destroyed unless there is a law saying that the state can’t build their own database . There is a law against the feds doing it but not the state.

 

[Truebeliever]

Then sue the shit out of them. Name the official personally.

Government officials should be scared shitless of accidentally violating someone's rights.

You can’t sue for requiring “ proof” that they are not violating their rules/the law as far as possession. They send a notice that the permit is no good they will ask for proof the gun is no longer in your possession. They will claim failure to do so is their reason to hold up your permit. The courts will entertain that. What you propose has been done before.
Go ahead and personally name the people involved. It will make no difference. They will be indemnified just as Bruen was. Bruen was NYS in the lawsuit .

 

[Jmac00]

View attachment 166029

ABSOLUTELY, especially, if you moved out of the shit hole, and to a free state.

 

[pshift]

FUKH = this --> She is a chameleon

 

[speedkills27]

A good lawyer might argue that if they (government) can’t administer their own laws citizens have no obligation to obey them. Could citizens could file for relief based on incompetence?

 

[spat]

You can’t sue for requiring “ proof” that they are not violating their rules/the law as far as possession. They send a notice that the permit is no good they will ask for proof the gun is no longer in your possession. They will claim failure to do so is their reason to hold up your permit. The courts will entertain that. What you propose has been done before.
Go ahead and personally name the people involved. It will make no difference. They will be indemnified just as Bruen was. Bruen was NYS in the lawsuit .

The government needs to prove you are violating the law.

Citizens are not required to prove that they aren't.

Just because some rogue officials have decided to turn that on their head and gotten away with it doesn't make it right.

But, in any case, just take a picture of your guns next to the "welcome to pennsylvania" sign and send that to them LOL.

 

[Truebeliever]

The government needs to prove you are violating the law.

Citizens are not required to prove that they aren't.

Just because some rogue officials have decided to turn that on their head and gotten away with it doesn't make it right.

But, in any case, just take a picture of your guns next to the "welcome to pennsylvania" sign and send that to them LOL.

You are talking criminal sanctions. You are applying for a permit, they can use bureaucratic BS to hold it up. And they do the same thing in court. You fail to file a piece of paper in the way the court clerk wants it, they will reject it. It’s the same with the permit process. They want proof the gun is no longer in possession of the person. There are only certain “proof” they will accept.
I will give you an example. You want to pay for something like a fine or something at the DMV. The clerk at the DMV says they do not accept cash. You only have cash. Now try and get the DMV to take that cash. You are at an impass and who doesn’t get what they need….you.
It’s the same here.
Let’s apply that to a parade permit that has a 10 dollar fee. Cash not accepted. Your right to assemble is curtailed without that parade permit. You didn’t follow the procedure and it’s not processed because you want to pay in only cash.
Let’s apply that to a court filing that has a fee.
Same thing. A break from the procedure will prevent bit from being processed .

 

[spat]

You are talking criminal sanctions. You are applying for a permit, they can use bureaucratic BS to hold it up. And they do the same thing in court. You fail to file a piece of paper in the way the court clerk wants it, they will reject it. It’s the same with the permit process. They want proof the gun is no longer in possession of the person. There are only certain “proof” they will accept.
I will give you an example. You want to pay for something like a fine or something at the DMV. The clerk at the DMV says they do not accept cash. You only have cash. Now try and get the DMV to take that cash. You are at an impass and who doesn’t get what they need….you.
It’s the same here.

They do not have a choice now.

You have a constitutional right to that permit.

Can they try the bureaucratic BS to be a PITA, yes, that's pretty much what government does.

That's also why we *need* to be able to claim damages when they try that crap.

Imagine the shit storm of some state decided you had to jump through those hoops to vote ?

"Can you provide proof you've never committed election fraud ?"

 

[Truebeliever]

They do not have a choice now.

You have a constitutional right to that permit.

Can they try the bureaucratic BS to be a PITA, yes, that's pretty much what government does.

That's also why we *need* to be able to claim damages when they try that crap.

Imagine the shit storm of some state decided you had to jump through those hoops to vote ?

"Can you provide proof you've never committed election fraud ?"

I just gave the example with the parade permit and the fee. If there is a 10 dollar processing fee and they do not accept cash. You refuse to use anything but cash. They will not process your permit despite it curtailing your right of assembly.
Courts will not accept certain court filings without the accompanying fee. And if you don’t make payment in the way the clerk wants , they won’t process your case— possibly denying you your chance to be heard in court. And it’s all legal .
Don’t give them an excuse

 

[CaliberPlus]

Deleted, Posted in the wrong thread, sorry!

 

[spat]

And it’s all legal .

That's the problem.

It should be criminal. Everyone from the committee members who wrote that policy to the clerk who insisted on it should be prosecuted.

And I imagine if someone sued over it they could force them to accept cash. You should not have to sue to get your rights respected.

 

[Truebeliever]

That's the problem.

It should be criminal. Everyone from the committee members who wrote that policy to the clerk who insisted on it should be prosecuted.

And I imagine if someone sued over it they could force them to accept cash. You should not have to sue to get your rights respected.

They stopped excepting cash at a lot of government processes. It’s an integrity issue. No cash to worry about “ disappearing “and it helps with their bookkeeping.

 

[spat]

They stopped excepting cash at a lot of government processes. It’s an integrity issue. No cash to worry about “ disappearing “and it helps with their bookkeeping.

That should not be the citizens problem.


If they can't figure out how to accept cash, then they should just waive the fee.

How did "our employees are crooks" become my problem ?

In fact, why are they allowed to even charge a fee at all for something that is a right ?

 

[Mr. terzmo]

If anyone has a state renewal up in the next year, RENEW NOW on the state police website. I don't know about after 9/1, but mine renewed no problem. You can renew up to a year early. It buys you 3 years until you have to take the course. I cannot imagine the landscape looking the same in 3 years, I think they will get smacked down hard way earlier than that.

What course ?

 

[Truebeliever]

That should not be the citizens problem.


If they can't figure out how to accept cash, then they should just waive the fee.

How did "our employees are crooks" become my problem ?

In fact, why are they allowed to even charge a fee at all for something that is a right ?

We aren’t talking “ what should be”. We are talking reality.
The fees were also made to prevent frivolous filings. Inmates used to file for crazy things until the fee was attached.

 

[Truebeliever]

What course ?

The permit will require a written test and a live course of fire. What the course will be hasn’t come down yet. There are exceptions written into the law such as people who qualified in the military

 

[spat]

We aren’t talking “ what should be”. We are talking reality.
The fees were also made to prevent frivolous filings. Inmates used to file for crazy things until the fee was attached.

No, you are talking about what is.

The rest of us realize that the way things are is an utter failure, and we should be talking about what should be.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

Seems to me that this is just a vindictive stall tactic. I don't see a reason why they can't just continue to process applications(with good cause taken out of the application) while the new process is developed and phase the old process out as the new one comes on line. It's not a new concept.

 

[libertysnake]

People should apply. Then they should sue. And if they get no backup from the courts on this obvious breach, then they should think -- real hard -- about what should come next.