Off Duty Cop Attempts to Arrest Man for Littering?

[GOPerfect]

Did you watch the video? The littering aspect was over. The asshole came out, told them to pick up the bag. They did, after walking back to the home, the douchebag decided to re-enter the situation and attack this innocent family. The taller male officer knows it was the asshole cop that called the Police because he told the on duty he was the one that called.

Again, the off duty attacked him, not about the bag, it was already picked up and they were all moving on. He decided to pick a fight with the little dude and his family because of the camera. Not because of the small amount of trash that was dropped.

His actions were NOT legal. In any State. the initial allegation was over and done with. As for your assertion that force is allowed to make an arrest, your are correct. Just completely wrong in this situation. First, because the "crime" that was committed was moot and over. Second, you really think this is acceptable behavior for an off duty officer? You think it is okay for him to attack a man with his family in the street, for no legal reason??

Watch the following and tell me you are okay with this?

 

[Truebeliever]

Did you watch the video? The littering aspect was over. The asshole came out, told them to pick up the bag. They did, after walking back to the home, the douchebag decided to re-enter the situation and attack this innocent family. The taller male officer knows it was the asshole cop that called the Police because he told the on duty he was the one that called.

Again, the off duty attacked him, not about the bag, it was already picked up and they were all moving on. He decided to pick a fight with the little dude and his family because of the camera. Not because of the small amount of trash that was dropped.

His actions were NOT legal. In any State. the initial allegation was over and done with. As for your assertion that force is allowed to make an arrest, your are correct. Just completely wrong in this situation. First, because the "crime" that was committed was moot and over. Second, you really think this is acceptable behavior for an off duty officer? You think it is okay for him to attack a man with his family in the street, for no legal reason??

Watch the following and tell me you are okay with this?

I did. And I am even not arguing he was right. However, he could still change his mind about the littering and arrest him just like the guy changed his mind and then went to DA.
See what the argument was about. Someone was calling out that one of the cops who responded should be punished too.

 

[GOPerfect]

1% of everyone he talks to. Or 1% of everyone he stops? How many people do you think he stops , he knows is armed ?
Now if you said, every car he stops of a traffic infraction, he makes the people get out of the car and frisks them, you might have an argument with that 1%.
But for the sake of argument only let’s use that one percent as rule. What if God told you that for every hundred cars you stop, the person in it has a gun and is going to try to hurt you. The rest of the time you will be perfectly safe. Sounds okay right ?
The rub is you will be expected to do 20 car stops a week. Twenty or more day if in a highway unit . That means once a week ( or once a month ) for 20 years someone is going to be armed and attempt to hurt you. You might not take car stops so lightly anymore.

So, you are okay with taking the gun from a citizen that is driving and pulled over for a simple traffic infraction?

 

[GOPerfect]

I did. And I am even not arguing he was right. However, he could still change his mind about the littering and arrest him just like the guy changed his mind and then went to DA.
See what the argument was about. Someone was calling out that one of the cops who responded should be punished too.

The taller guy should be looked at as well. Yes. Indeed.

I will ask you this, if the douche bag was not a cop and police were called, do you believe that after seeing the video, the taller cop would have arrested the guy that attacked?

Would an every day citizen go to jail over that assault? This is why the other cop whould at least have a good talking to? Not so much punished, I do not agree to that part, but he was wrong as well. This leads to the high level of distrust the people have against my profession.

 

[GOPerfect]

I did. And I am even not arguing he was right. However, he could still change his mind about the littering and arrest him just like the guy changed his mind and then went to DA.
See what the argument was about. Someone was calling out that one of the cops who responded should be punished too.

In Tennessee, this is the law. Again.... Your entire argument is wrong. On every level.....


39-14-502. Offense of littering.

(a) A person commits littering who:

(1) Knowingly places, drops or throws litter on any public or private property without permission and does not immediately remove it;

......

39-14-504. Offense of criminal littering.

(a) Criminal littering is littering in an amount more than five pounds (5 lbs.) in weight or seven and one half (7.5) cubic feet in volume and less than or equal to ten pounds (10 lbs.) in weight or fifteen (15) cubic feet in volume.

(b) Criminal littering is a Class B misdemeanor.

 

[Truebeliever]

So, you are okay with taking the gun from a citizen that is driving and pulled over for a simple traffic infraction?

It depends . If you have done car stops, you know that feeling that there might be something bigger at play. And they often do. It’s the officer decretion. It can happen to off duty/out of town LE too

 

[Truebeliever]

In Tennessee, this is the law. Again.... Your entire argument is wrong. On every level.....


39-14-502. Offense of littering.

(a) A person commits littering who:

(1) Knowingly places, drops or throws litter on any public or private property without permission and does not immediately remove it;

......

39-14-504. Offense of criminal littering.

(a) Criminal littering is littering in an amount more than five pounds (5 lbs.) in weight or seven and one half (7.5) cubic feet in volume and less than or equal to ten pounds (10 lbs.) in weight or fifteen (15) cubic feet in volume.

(b) Criminal littering is a Class B misdemeanor.

Glad I said to apply our laws and other places . But us that’s state law? What’s the local law?

 

[GOPerfect]

Glad I said to apply our laws and other places . But us that’s state law? What’s the local law?

That is Shelby County Tennessee. The County that he resides in.

 

[GOPerfect]

It depends . If you have done car stops, you know that feeling that there might be something bigger at play. And they often do. It’s the officer decretion. It can happen to off duty/out of town LE too

I have done lots of car stops, in numerous States and in numerous Countries, American citizens as well as non Americans in foreign nations.

There have been many times that I was told by the driver/occupants that they were armed. Some times, I found out on my own. Never once have I disarmed a driver for a simple traffic stop. If it led to something further, yep.

I respect all that the Constitution offers as often as humanly possible.

 

[GOPerfect]

It depends . If you have done car stops, you know that feeling that there might be something bigger at play. And they often do. It’s the officer decretion. It can happen to off duty/out of town LE too

I am well aware of discretion, I use that as well. But I try to err on caution of the US Constitution. Many officers do not, many have littel to no use of the document while at work.

 

[kev74]

Video should be titled "Nashville Cop Makes Homeless Man Millionaire".

 

[GOPerfect]

Video should be titled "Nashville Cop Makes Homeless Man Millionaire".

Something like this, a few hundred grand at least.

The officer will probably lose his immunity as well, the homeless guy will then be able to sue him directly. Not sure if that will happen though.

 

[Truebeliever]

I am well aware of discretion, I use that as well. But I try to err on caution of the US Constitution. Many officers do not, many have littel to no use of the document while at work.

During a stop. A person is in custody. He is not free to leave. If the cop gives back the gun with the ID. No issues with me. Fake CCW permits as well as fake LE ID are out there .

 

[GOPerfect]

During a stop. A person is in custody. He is not free to leave. If the cop gives back the gun with the ID. No issues with me. Fake CCW permits as well as fake LE ID are out there .

This is one key difference between officers like me and ones like you. I do not go to work fearing the people that I serve. I respect their Rights as a citizen of the US. I do all that I can to never violate their Rights. Taking away their Constitutional Right to bear arms, unless absolutely necessary, I will not. Again, different views on the job and the respect to the Oath.

 

[spat]

1% of everyone he talks to. Or 1% of everyone he stops? How many people do you think he stops , he knows is armed ?
Now if you said, every car he stops of a traffic infraction, he makes the people get out of the car and frisks them, you might have an argument with that 1%.
But for the sake of argument only let’s use that one percent as rule. What if God told you that for every hundred cars you stop, the person in it has a gun and is going to try to hurt you. The rest of the time you will be perfectly safe. Sounds okay right ?
The rub is you will be expected to do 20 car stops a week. Twenty or more day if in a highway unit . That means once a week ( or once a month ) for 20 years someone is going to be armed and attempt to hurt you. You might not take car stops so lightly anymore.

All I'm saying is that the same logic applies to the citizen.

If you thought that you had a 1% of a traffic stop where the officer was going to go all King Kong on you, how would you feel ?

You're an officer, so you're perspective is "officer safety is paramount". I'm not, so my perspective is "citizen safety is paramount".

The difference is that at least in theory one group is in charge of the other, and it's not the one that many cops seem to think it is.

 

[Truebeliever]

That is Shelby County Tennessee. The County that he resides in.

The quote is from state law

39-14-502. Offense of littering.
​

TN - Tennessee Code AnnotatedTenn. Code Ann. § 39-14-502

Title 39 Criminal Offenses > Chapter 14 Offenses Against Property > Part 5 Litter Control > 39-14-502. Offense of littering.
(a) A person commits littering who: (1) Knowingly places, drops or throws litter on any public or private property without permission and does not immediately remove it; ...

This is the local law:
Sec. 44-88. - Throwing, dumping, or depositing litter or maintaining a nuisance.


(a)
A person shall not throw, dump, deposit, or cause to be thrown, dumped or deposited, litter on property owned by another person, or on any public highway, street, or road, upon public parks or recreation areas, or upon any other public property, or maintain a nuisance on such property, except property legally designated for that use.”

And here is the punishment:


(a)

A person who violates a provision of this division shall be guilty of a violation of this Code and shall be fined not more than $50.00. Each violation is considered a separate offense and is punishable as such.

(b)

The judge in his discretion may allow the person found guilty of a violation of this division to remove the litter that the person threw, dumped, deposited, or caused to be thrown, dumped, or deposited, from the property in lieu of or in addition to the penalty provided in subsection (a) of this section.”
Under this section, even if the person in this case was forced to go back and pick it , it still doesn’t mean they can’t be charged with local law.
And under this section, local law can trump the state law:
“Sec. 44-22. - Conflict of laws.


Where the conditions imposed by any provisions of this article are either more restrictive or less restrictive than comparable conditions imposed by any other provision of this article or any other applicable law, ordinance, rule or regulation, the more restrictive provisions, or those which impose higher standards or requirements, shall govern”.

 

[Truebeliever]

All I'm saying is that the same logic applies to the citizen.

If you thought that you had a 1% of a traffic stop where the officer was going to go all King Kong on you, how would you feel ?

You're an officer, so you're perspective is "officer safety is paramount". I'm not, so my perspective is "citizen safety is paramount".

The difference is that at least in theory one group is in charge of the other, and it's not the one that many cops seem to think it is.

Oh, it is for your safety too. If the officer has that gun, he doesn’t have to worry about you doing something with it. Can you think of instance where a CCW was shot by a cop? I can.

 

[Truebeliever]

This is one key difference between officers like me and ones like you. I do not go to work fearing the people that I serve. I respect their Rights as a citizen of the US. I do all that I can to never violate their Rights. Taking away their Constitutional Right to bear arms, unless absolutely necessary, I will not. Again, different views on the job and the respect to the Oath.

Fear some of them, sure. Most of them no. Ask yourself, how many times have you been in the emergency room as a patient ( both major and minor) in a year. How many times have you been shot at? Or someone tried to stab, punch , etc you in a yesr. How many murder, robbery , burglary , or rape arrests have you made in a year or your career? How many of your partners or immediate fellow cops have been shot, stabbed etc. How many have been murdered? It makes a difference.

 

[GOPerfect]

Fear some of them, sure. Most of them no. Ask yourself, how many times have you been in the emergency room as a patient ( both major and minor) in a year. How many times have you been shot at? Or someone tried to stab, punch , etc you in a yesr. How many murder, robbery , burglary , or rape arrests have you made in a year or your career? How many of your partners or immediate fellow cops have been shot, stabbed etc. How many have been murdered? It makes a difference.

You are defending violating citizens Rights due to yours and others experience. The US Constitution, I have read it many times. I have written papers on it and I have taught the principles on said document to many' I assure you, no where is it written that says it is okay to violate it because you have been hit or stabbed.

I have taken my Oath on four different occasions, I go out of my way never to violate that oath.

There are different types of people that take an Oath of office, those that do their best to never violate that Oath, and then there are those people that violate the Oath whenever they think they need to.

I know where I fall into that and I know where you fall into that. I am proud of my actions and my attempt to honor that Oath. Not all can say the same.

 

[GOPerfect]

Fear some of them, sure. Most of them no. Ask yourself, how many times have you been in the emergency room as a patient ( both major and minor) in a year. How many times have you been shot at? Or someone tried to stab, punch , etc you in a yesr. How many murder, robbery , burglary , or rape arrests have you made in a year or your career? How many of your partners or immediate fellow cops have been shot, stabbed etc. How many have been murdered? It makes a difference.

I am out of work, have been for about three months now due to an incident at work, my injury may never be back to normal, should I go and violate the Rights of the people now?

 

[spat]

Oh, it is for your safety too. If the officer has that gun, he doesn’t have to worry about you doing something with it. Can you think of instance where a CCW was shot by a cop? I can.

I can think of several where the CCW was shot by the cop *because* the cop tried to disarm them and basically panicked.

Philando Castille comes to mind.

Nope, I would feel quite a bit safer if I were to maintain control of my weapon, and cops who are to panicky to deal with that are simply not out interacting with the public.

Everyone is safer when all the firearms remain in their holsters.

Disarming *me* never makes *me* safer.


And all the laws and court rulings that allow cops to disarm someone without actually arresting them for a crime are bullshit.

If you don't have PC to arrest them, then you don't have enough justification to disarm them.

 

[Acer-m14]

omg ...

why in the hell didn't this upstanding off duty cop just come out and say ..

hey you dropped this baggie of candy ..

i bet if the little girl dropped a 20 dolla bill

he would have just kept it .

 

[Grimscale]

During a stop. A person is in custody.

Oh, it is for your safety too. If the officer has that gun, he doesn’t have to worry about you doing something with it.

Congratulations. You have proven, in my opinion anyway, that you are a bad cop.

I am SO thankful the State Police officer that responded when I called about hitting a deer was more like GOPerfect than you. Someone like you would probably have me arrested or shot for littering, hunting without a license, and carrying.
The nice officer showed professionalism, kindness, and understanding. I should have called the local HQ to compliment her behavior but I got caught up in trying to get the car fixed.

 

[Truebeliever]

You are defending violating citizens Rights due to yours and others experience. The US Constitution, I have read it many times. I have written papers on it and I have taught the principles on said document to many' I assure you, no where is it written that says it is okay to violate it because you have been hit or stabbed.

I have taken my Oath on four different occasions, I go out of my way never to violate that oath.

There are different types of people that take an Oath of office, those that do their best to never violate that Oath, and then there are those people that violate the Oath whenever they think they need to.

I know where I fall into that and I know where you fall into that. I am proud of my actions and my attempt to honor that Oath. Not all can say the same.

You are completely wrong. If the officer has detained someone on probable cause of any infraction or reasonable suspicion of a crime , they can disarm thst person . Heck, they can even put that person in handcuffs .. And it’s completely constitutional.
The constitution protects against “ unreasonable searches and seizures”. SCOTUS has ruled that what I stated above is reasonable while that person is being legally detained.

 

[Truebeliever]

Congratulations. You have proven, in my opinion anyway, that you are a bad cop.

I am SO thankful the State Police officer that responded when I called about hitting a deer was more like GOPerfect than you. Someone like you would probably have me arrested or shot for littering, hunting without a license, and carrying.
The nice officer showed professionalism, kindness, and understanding. I should have called the local HQ to compliment her behavior but I got caught up in trying to get the car fixed.

I am expressing what can be done legally .
I doubt Goperfect is going to do the same thing if he pulled over a bunch of people who are gangbangers or have “ what do we want, dead cops” bumper stickers . Let them remain armed as he attempts to run a computer check of their names for warrants and such? I doubt it.

Remember, they have a first amendment right too but we have a right not to be stupid too.
Explaining what can be done legally and what is done are too different things . Officers have discretion for a reason . And a well-educated in the law officer can be someone’s worse nightmare if you piss them off. Especially lawyers who think they know better. Local law trips them up all the time. It is better that I explain what an officer can legally do to everyone here than blow smoke up your——. What I could do as an officer and what I would do can be two different things.

And I understand how scary these powers can be. I have been on both sides of that stop.

 

[Truebeliever]

I can think of several where the CCW was shot by the cop *because* the cop tried to disarm them and basically panicked.

Philando Castille comes to mind.

Nope, I would feel quite a bit safer if I were to maintain control of my weapon, and cops who are to panicky to deal with that are simply not out interacting with the public.

Everyone is safer when all the firearms remain in their holsters.

Disarming *me* never makes *me* safer.


And all the laws and court rulings that allow cops to disarm someone without actually arresting them for a crime are bullshit.

If you don't have PC to arrest them, then you don't have enough justification to disarm them.

Philando Castile does come to mind . However that is not a good example. He was an armed robbery suspect .



. He had his gun on his lap next to his wallet and was reaching for his wallet despite the officer telling him not to move at that point.

I don’t have the photo of the body but his hand was next to his gun ( not on it) . He was probably reaching for his wallet .
And does anybody wonder why they stopped looking for the robber after the shooting? A question no one is willing to answer. Of course, they will say he wasn’t the robber ( image the fallout if they did say he could be the robber.)

Imagine if the cop disarmed him first. He might still be alive.

 

[spat]

Philando Castile does come to mind . However that is not a good example. He was an armed robbery suspect .
View attachment 187456


. He had his gun on his lap next to his wallet and was reaching for his wallet despite the officer telling him not to move at that point.

I don’t have the photo of the body but his hand was next to his gun ( not on it) . He was probably reaching for his wallet .

What percentage of the population do you think fit the description of that armed robber ?

"Suspect" means jack shit. He had done nothing wrong. He was an innocent man who was murdered for being unable to comply with confusing and contradictory orders.

You can't bark out orders to get your license and not move then just shoot for whichever one he doesn't do.


Imagine some citizen walks up to a cop sitting in his patrol car and asks for directions, then shoots him when he reaches for a notepad next to his gun. Would that be justified ? Of course not. Then it's not justified for the cop asking for the license either.

 

[Truebeliever]

What percentage of the population do you think fit the description of that armed robber ?

"Suspect" means jack shit. He had done nothing wrong. He was an innocent man who was murdered for being unable to comply with confusing and contradictory orders.

You can't bark out orders to get your license and not move then just shoot for whichever one he doesn't do.


Imagine some citizen walks up to a cop sitting in his patrol car and asks for directions, then shoots him when he reaches for a notepad next to his gun. Would that be justified ? Of course not. Then it's not justified for the cop asking for the license either.

Look at the photo. The car stop was initiated near the robbery location but on a different day based on that photo . Not just description. Did you get the hint that they stopped looking for the robbery suspect in general, for some reason. Not just that day. Do you get the hint ?

 

[spat]

Look at the photo. The car stop was initiated near the robbery location but on a different day based on that photo . Not just description. Did you get the hint that they stopped looking for the robbery suspect in general, for some reason. Not just that day. Do you get the hint ?

I get the hint that a lot of cops treat everyone without a badge as a suspect for something.

I also get the hint that if "officer safety" was a valid concern, then traffic stops would be eliminated for anything short of a felony.

Just mail the owner a ticket for anything else.

Since traffic stops are the single most dangerous thing cops do, and they haven't eliminated them despite it being cheap and easy, then "officer safety" is just an excuse, and one that shouldn't be tolerated.

 

[Truebeliever]

I get the hint that a lot of cops treat everyone without a badge as a suspect for something.

I also get the hint that if "officer safety" was a valid concern, then traffic stops would be eliminated for anything short of a felony.

Just mail the owner a ticket for anything else.

Since traffic stops are the single most dangerous thing cops do, and they haven't eliminated them despite it being cheap and easy, then "officer safety" is just an excuse, and one that shouldn't be tolerated.

No you don’t get it.
Not that you can just mail the ticket either
And here is the photo of Castillo body . Look where his hand is

https://deadstate.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/castile-.jpg

And here is the article of the court case:

Philando Castile’s “C-grip” was for his gun, not seat belt, expert testifies

A third account of where Philando Castile’s gun was found when officers removed his wounded body from his vehicle last summer was provided to the jury Wednesday.

www.twincities.com

If the officer had disarmed him, he would still be alive .