Again, how would you know? How many arrests have been made solely on a SAFE act and not an add-on to another charge or investigation that would have been an arrest under the law before the safe act.If they refused to enforce the SAFE act, then nobody would care about it.
You can't play the "just following orders" card.
Cops are a crucial part of any infringement, they absolutely have responsibility for every instance of it.
People follow the safe act because they are afraid of being arrested.Again, how would you know? How many arrests have been made solely on a SAFE act and not an add-on to another charge or investigation that would have been an arrest under the law before the safe act.
Statistics from studies that scewed. It treats the overall profession including LE officers who are paper pushers and who have never made an arrest and departments that have statutory power of arrest but never do. Despite that, it’s still in the 15 most dangerous by those studies.You do realize that being a cop is *not* statistically a very dangerous profession, right ?
I realize you like to play up the "putting their life on the line" rhetoric, but in actual fact probably half the people on this forum have more dangerous jobs than you do.
Top 25 most dangerous jobs in the United States
Roofers, power lineman, construction jobs are among the most dangerous jobs in the United States based on data from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics Census of Fatal Occupational Injuries and studied by AdvisorSmith.www.ishn.com
Yep. And we often do however, many off duty cops are required to carry off duty therefore are unable to attend these events .
Every often, we just can’t go to these events.
Spent 11 years picking up garbage. Been on a working farm my whole life. Currently fall in the highway maintenance worker category. Do some construction on the side. And have dabbled in some of the other categories. Working on my 4th of 5 roofs to do this summer. I’m living on the edge…You do realize that being a cop is *not* statistically a very dangerous profession, right ?
I realize you like to play up the "putting their life on the line" rhetoric, but in actual fact probably half the people on this forum have more dangerous jobs than you do.
Top 25 most dangerous jobs in the United States
Roofers, power lineman, construction jobs are among the most dangerous jobs in the United States based on data from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics Census of Fatal Occupational Injuries and studied by AdvisorSmith.www.ishn.com
Yes, if you wear PPE that mitigates the danger, then you are in less danger.Statistics from studies that scewed. It treats the overall profession including LE officers who are paper pushers and who have never made an arrest and departments that have statutory power of arrest but never do. Despite that, it’s still in the 15 most dangerous by those studies.
However, those studies don’t measure the danger. Just the serious injury and death rate per people. Astronauts have one of the most dangerous jobs but it doesn’t make the list because of the precautions taken.
Let someone put a bulletproof vest on you and shoot at you. If it hits the vest and you aren’t injured or they miss, it’s not registered on that study .
You can’t have it both ways. Some here argue that the job of LE is not to be the “ pre crime division like in minority report then say LE can’t stop someone because they suspect they might be or are about to commit a crime.People follow the safe act because they are afraid of being arrested.
How many gimped stocks and epoxied magazine releases are there in the state ?
That is solely because of the threat that law enforcement presents.
The job of law enforcement isn't to actually make arrests. If there is an arrest, you have already failed, because that means a crime was committed.
Your job is to present the threat of arrest to keep crimes from happening to begin with. In that respect you are part of the oppression whether you actually make an arrest or not.
Nope. The answer is just can’t go to the event or take your chances.Well then don't carry and when asked by higher ups, tell them "I wasn't carrying at the fair because I was just following orders"
Bring a rape whistle if you are that scared
Nope. The answer is just can’t go to the event or take your chances.
Yes, I am saying that. But the fall protection makes the roofing job a whole lot safer.Yes, if you wear PPE that mitigates the danger, then you are in less danger.
Are you saying that roofers are undercounted because they wear fall protection?
Construction workers are undercounted because they wear hard hats ?
Surely the guy who's vest is protecting him from getting shot is in the same boat as the guy who survived a wrench hitting his head from 4 stories up because of his hard hat.
All of those professions have the same sort of conditions affecting the results.
I know you guys build your identity around being the "thin blue line" and "risking your life", but the reality is you're just like the garbage man, only a little safer.
Also, if you *think* you are in danger, but you aren't likely to experience serious injury or death, then you just don't understand danger.
The difference is the threat for most “civilians”.Darn. Sounds like how "civilians" in NY have to live.. sucks to suck I guess
The difference is the threat for most “civilians”.
How often do you run into people who have attempted to physically hurt you in the past and want to kill you at these events?
And yes, there are “ civilians” in the same boat.
But the difference was I was pointing out is that the off duty officer is found not to be armed, he can and often will face disciplinary action especially if a crime occurred in front of them and they can’t do anything about it.
Yes, I am saying that. But the fall protection makes the roofing job a whole lot safer.
A friend of mine died because he didn’t have fall protection.
A big difference is that when the roofer comes off the roof, the danger is over. The cop can’t say when they are off duty, they are out of danger.
So, just like everyone else who's disarmed by asinine policies then.The difference is the threat for most “civilians”.
How often do you run into people who have attempted to physically hurt you in the past and want to kill you at these events?
And yes, there are “ civilians” in the same boat.
But the difference was I was pointing out is that the off duty officer is found not to be armed, he can and often will face disciplinary action especially if a crime occurred in front of them and they can’t do anything about it.
So, just like everyone else who's disarmed by asinine policies then.
And not having a gun doesn't mean you can't do anything about such a crime.
In some countries most cops don't carry guns when *on* duty.
Your gun should only ever come into it when there is a credible threat of death or serious injury. Far too often in the US they come out for intimidation, and that is illegal, even if you never get prosecuted for it.
So, no, you don't need a gun to intervene in the vast majority of crimes you might encounter at the state fair LOL.
Really this is what you come up with? Honestly I’ll bet you don’t have this happen to you very often either. I know many cops, my dad was one for 34 years, my brothers been one for 20 years now and no one has attempted to harm them or kill them off the job. I won’t say there haven’t ever been threats, but this isn’t Hollywood it’s real life.The difference is the threat for most “civilians”.
How often do you run into people who have attempted to physically hurt you in the past and want to kill you at these events?
And yes, there are “ civilians” in the same boat.
But the difference was I was pointing out is that the off duty officer is found not to be armed, he can and often will face disciplinary action especially if a crime occurred in front of them and they can’t do anything about it.
Never piss off the guy with the backhoe. He can make you go away and never be found.I used to work as an engineer tech for an engineering company. My job was to baby sit construction workers to make sure they did their jobs right. One day I saw one of the laborers start laughing to his buddy when I walked by. I asked him what he was laughing at. He told me his boss told the laborers to knock me in a hole and bury me if they got the chance. I worked on that job for over a year with 30 or 40 laborers who would have killed me if they got the chance. I never got any special privileges.
Now I work as a low level bureaucrat. For the last 10 years, I've pissed off between 3 and 5 people a day, every day. I've been threatened several times and had one guy get physical with me. Again, no special privileges.
Sometimes you just have to deal with it. It sucks that the off duty cops can't carry at the fair. But it sucks just as much that good people without badges can't carry either.
I was just about to post this very thing. This is just lip service. Do you all really think off duty guys are gonna abide by this? If they get caught then what?I carry anywhere anyway…I don’t give shit. *Oh well*
Quoted wrong post.Yes, I am saying that. But the fall protection makes the roofing job a whole lot safer.
A friend of mine died because he didn’t have fall protection.
A big difference is that when the roofer comes off the roof, the danger is over. The cop can’t say when they are off duty, they are out of danger.
I dont think anyone should think danger is over when they "punch out". Random violent crime is everywhere, road rage, polar bear hunting, muggings, rapes, etc...Yes, I am saying that. But the fall protection makes the roofing job a whole lot safer.
A friend of mine died because he didn’t have fall protection.
A big difference is that when the roofer comes off the roof, the danger is over. The cop can’t say when they are off duty, they are out of danger.
I already knew what camp you were in. I appreciate you saying that and while you didnt ask for it, you have my respect for it.They should update the laws/rules and change it so every law abiding citizen should be able to legally carry. Then there wouldn’t be an issue, problem solved.
A lot of big differences in a generalized way. A former LEO is a target for violence just based on his former profession. And often by people he doesn’t know. The attacks former and off duty officers( on their person and/or property) are so common that it doesn’t make the news.
A “ civilian “ might have an issue with a particular individual or group but unless they are famous, aren’t targeted in the same way.
There was an extreme example that I remember where an off duty police officer and his group were robbed at gunpoint. The off duty officer didn’t resist or identify himself . I am not even sure if he had his gun on him. They found his wallet with his ID card. The robber then cut off his finger so quote “ he can’t be a cop no more”.
A police officer’s family was followed home from church and attacked simply because the person hated cops. The cop had no previous police interaction with the attacker.
This is all too common.
This decision is discrimination against officers who are often required to carry off duty
I'm interested in this "new technology" that the State Fair is employing to screen people for guns at the gate. Maybe have a go at it. What's the penalty -- won't they just turn you away if found to be carrying (and not yet inside the fairgrounds)?I carry anywhere anyway…I don’t give shit. *Oh well*
Maybe they're borrowing NYPD's X-ray Vans that scan pedestrians who walk by... Think airport scanner on wheels!I'm interested in this "new technology" that the State Fair is employing to screen people for guns at the gate. Maybe have a go at it. What's the penalty -- won't they just turn you away if found to be carrying (and not yet inside the fairgrounds)?
Remember the fair runs after 9/1 and on 9/1 and beyond it’s a felony.I'm interested in this "new technology" that the State Fair is employing to screen people for guns at the gate. Maybe have a go at it. What's the penalty -- won't they just turn you away if found to be carrying (and not yet inside the fairgrounds)?