There are a few semi autos in .357mag but not really ideal for carry or duty lol Man I wan a coonan
Officer involved shooting, man w/ knife
- Thread starter Edwardteach72
- Start date
There are a few semi autos in .357mag but not really ideal for carry or duty lol Man I wan a coonan
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Your Dad was a cop too?
Yes. But only him, I and two cousins. I’m not really from a cop family so to speak. I work with people who go back generations with multiple in each generation.
spat
.950 JDJ
Obviously all things being equal more energy or a larger hole are better. The question is how much better.
Very small or low power rounds that lack enough energy to get to vitals aren't going to get the job done, but once you've got the power to get there, how much advantage is there in having extra ?
Terminal ballistics is a very complex field, and there are some major qualitative differences between very low power stuff like the 22lr and modern defensive calibers (which I would include rounds as low as .380 and as high as 10mm in) Then another qualitative difference again when you go to rifle rounds.
We can all agree that a good shot with a .380 beats a bad one with a 45 or 10mm. We can also agree that stopped is stopped, once your assailant has lost conciousness it doesn't matter how much additional damage was done.
The only place the caliber wars come in are marginal shots. 90% of shots are either going to be good enough to take them down quickly with a .380, or bad enough that they can continue fighting even if it was a 45 or 10mm. So, the question becomes, how many of the marginal shots will a heavy caliber turn into stops where the light one would not.
That is a very difficult thing to study. You are trying to identify shots where caliber would have made a difference, so the vast majority of data on performance is irrelevant. Counting every time someone got shot with caliber x isn't relevant, it only confuses things. You have to throw out the data on both good and bad shots (that either wouldn't have quickly stopped the attacker with any of the rounds, or would have stopped them with all)
So, you throw out the gut shots and the arm and leg hits, etc, and you throw out shots that hit the heart or CNS directly (if you can even get that data) and you throw out any shots that occurred in the same incident as a heart or CNS hit and you are left with a very small datasets to try to draw any conclusions from.
Very small or low power rounds that lack enough energy to get to vitals aren't going to get the job done, but once you've got the power to get there, how much advantage is there in having extra ?
Terminal ballistics is a very complex field, and there are some major qualitative differences between very low power stuff like the 22lr and modern defensive calibers (which I would include rounds as low as .380 and as high as 10mm in) Then another qualitative difference again when you go to rifle rounds.
We can all agree that a good shot with a .380 beats a bad one with a 45 or 10mm. We can also agree that stopped is stopped, once your assailant has lost conciousness it doesn't matter how much additional damage was done.
The only place the caliber wars come in are marginal shots. 90% of shots are either going to be good enough to take them down quickly with a .380, or bad enough that they can continue fighting even if it was a 45 or 10mm. So, the question becomes, how many of the marginal shots will a heavy caliber turn into stops where the light one would not.
That is a very difficult thing to study. You are trying to identify shots where caliber would have made a difference, so the vast majority of data on performance is irrelevant. Counting every time someone got shot with caliber x isn't relevant, it only confuses things. You have to throw out the data on both good and bad shots (that either wouldn't have quickly stopped the attacker with any of the rounds, or would have stopped them with all)
So, you throw out the gut shots and the arm and leg hits, etc, and you throw out shots that hit the heart or CNS directly (if you can even get that data) and you throw out any shots that occurred in the same incident as a heart or CNS hit and you are left with a very small datasets to try to draw any conclusions from.
Ok lets take a hypothetical situation and play the caliber game.
A home invader is breaking down the the door, and on the coffee table is a G17 and a G21 with one bullet. You can only pick up one. What one do you pick?
I choose the G21..
A home invader is breaking down the the door, and on the coffee table is a G17 and a G21 with one bullet. You can only pick up one. What one do you pick?
I choose the G21..
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Both would produce an equal result with a hole slightly bigger on one. It would be a psychological thing to pick one over the other.
But if you ask me, I’d pick the 9mm just in case if the one shot I have to take has to go through a wooden wall unit or something.
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Probably the 17 since my normalish sized hands would fit it better and I'd probably be able to get a better shot
spat
.950 JDJ
Kind of a contrived example with all the artificial limitations (one shot, you can only pick up one, etc)
If you are going to make those limits and a contender in .308 is sitting there then it would be the obvious choice. That doesn't mean a 308 is a good choice for carry.
Uzi
.308 Win
What Willjr75 is trying to say just so everyone fully understands, is that if you're going to carry a handgun, at least make it a 45acp because the additional grain weight and larger contact point upon impact creates increased hydrostatic shock which equates to near immediate incapacitation.
This along with a slower moving projectile means more time for tissue to be displaced throughout the wound channel. Single gunshot wounds that don't exit are also more lethal because the blood pressure remains higher near the entry points allowing for quicker and more rapid blood loss.
Thanks Willjr75 for explaining this. It's good to have truthful information and not made up stuff on the internet.
This along with a slower moving projectile means more time for tissue to be displaced throughout the wound channel. Single gunshot wounds that don't exit are also more lethal because the blood pressure remains higher near the entry points allowing for quicker and more rapid blood loss.
Thanks Willjr75 for explaining this. It's good to have truthful information and not made up stuff on the internet.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Your welcome.
Side note everyone's favorite.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
What are you thanking him for? I’m the one that explained the .45’s superiority.