Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Yeah. Okay.
Open Carry (security vs. us)
- Thread starter Chevusa
- Start date
Well, I decided to come out of my underground bunker to finally put this topic to rest. I actually found the law which authorizes security to open carry. No really, I did. They are actually pre-empted from concealed carry laws.
General Business Law
Article 7-A - SECURITY GUARD ACT
89-R - Preemption.
§ 89-r. Preemption. The provisions of this article shall govern
notwithstanding any other law to the contrary...
General Business Law
Article 7-A - SECURITY GUARD ACT
89-F - Definitions.
12. "Special armed guard registration card" shall mean a registration
card issued by the department signifying that the individual thereon has
been certified by the department to perform security guard functions and
to carry firearms in connection with such functions...
The functions are listed as but not limited to:
The following functions within the state:
a. protection of individuals and/or property from harm, theft or other
unlawful activity;
b. deterrence, observation, detection and/or reporting of incidents in
order to prevent any unlawful or unauthorized activity including but not
limited to unlawful or unauthorized intrusion or entry, larceny,
vandalism, abuse, arson or trespass on property;
c. street patrol service;
d. response to ... a security system
alarm installed and/or used to prevent or detect unauthorized intrusion,
robbery, burglary, theft, pilferage and other losses and/or to maintain
security of a protected premises.
And there you have it. Assuming open carry is illegal, by this act, armed security guard card holders would be pre-empted from any such law. This act clearly says "to carry firearms". No method of carry is listed. Just as it is not for police officers. Same thing, just exempted differently.
I also found it interesting that it does not mention "only on the job site" or "only directly from home to work" or any other thing that some people floated around. It only says to carry in connection with being a guard. I'm not saying to carry at the mall on your day off, but stopping at the store on the way home from working a job or running into Subway while on break from a job is certainly not a far stretch from "being employed as a guard".
Also note that armored car guards are listed under a separate law, but we can assume easily that the wording is exactly the same as it is for special armed guards.
General Business Law
Article 7-A - SECURITY GUARD ACT
89-R - Preemption.
§ 89-r. Preemption. The provisions of this article shall govern
notwithstanding any other law to the contrary...
General Business Law
Article 7-A - SECURITY GUARD ACT
89-F - Definitions.
12. "Special armed guard registration card" shall mean a registration
card issued by the department signifying that the individual thereon has
been certified by the department to perform security guard functions and
to carry firearms in connection with such functions...
The functions are listed as but not limited to:
The following functions within the state:
a. protection of individuals and/or property from harm, theft or other
unlawful activity;
b. deterrence, observation, detection and/or reporting of incidents in
order to prevent any unlawful or unauthorized activity including but not
limited to unlawful or unauthorized intrusion or entry, larceny,
vandalism, abuse, arson or trespass on property;
c. street patrol service;
d. response to ... a security system
alarm installed and/or used to prevent or detect unauthorized intrusion,
robbery, burglary, theft, pilferage and other losses and/or to maintain
security of a protected premises.
And there you have it. Assuming open carry is illegal, by this act, armed security guard card holders would be pre-empted from any such law. This act clearly says "to carry firearms". No method of carry is listed. Just as it is not for police officers. Same thing, just exempted differently.
I also found it interesting that it does not mention "only on the job site" or "only directly from home to work" or any other thing that some people floated around. It only says to carry in connection with being a guard. I'm not saying to carry at the mall on your day off, but stopping at the store on the way home from working a job or running into Subway while on break from a job is certainly not a far stretch from "being employed as a guard".
Also note that armored car guards are listed under a separate law, but we can assume easily that the wording is exactly the same as it is for special armed guards.
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byron
.308 Win
there is no method on mine it says. ( license to carry pistol is granted to )
Understand. But the argument from many is the penal law which your permit is issued under says “to have and carry concealed”.
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
what department to get my "Special armed guard registration card" do i go to ??
surprised to not see any mention of having a valid Pistol permit listed in that ACT ..
do i go to the town clerk and and fill out a DBA ... Acers Security then get home and visit my HR dept and print out a card Special armed guard registration card ... then i can be my buds wife bodyguard too and carry her czzy muddy girl 9mm when were out on the town ..
Sir,
No hollering, foot stomping, or other form of getting bent out of shape and acting up will be necessary. I have simply shared the actual law that, by my searches, appears that nobody has been able to put their finger on for a good number of years. I’m sorry that you are bothered by facts.
It does mention that you need to be licensed in accordance with Penal Law 400. I didn’t include that because I thought that was universally understood and it wasn’t really relative to the specific subject at hand.
Armed guards are licensed through the NY State Department Of Criminal Justice Services (DCJS), the same department that trains and licenses police officers. The DCJS is where a special armed guard registration card is issued. You cannot print one at home unless you want to be a felon. Also, making your own state ID would still not land your name on the statewide registry. But you knew that. You were just having a temper tantrum.
If you want to pay for the training, pass the tests (written and range qualification), maintain the yearly recertifications, have a clean enough record, and get hired by a licensed security contractor, then yes - you too would fit into the preemption from other conflicting laws. You don’t however, you’d rather smash keys and be bitter.
Try to have a good day. And smile. It’ll make you feel better.
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Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
really ... i was bent and having a temper tant LOL .. i was just poking fun at the part of the law that was posted ..
Sir,
Not sure I understand. "Poke fun" at the black and white letter law all you want, if that gives you comfort. Your feelings are irrelevant and the law stands.
Many people have wondered this for many years without knowing the exact answer. I have now provided it. If you are not interested, move along.
10 Pages worth of replies, how much more discussion is needed?
Post number 279 on page 10
Wow I can't believe no one is talking on this post ...
Wow I can't believe no one is talking on this post ...
The answer was just listed a few replies from the end. Obviously you missed it.
Post 272
You don’t have to click on it. In fact you can even click to ignore it.
Seems that now that the answer came out people want to run away from it. Almost like the people just wanted a reason to say “nu-uh” and stomp their feet. Weird.
Robin
.475 A&M Magnum
Everywhere I went yesterday everyone was wondering about this very subject, grocery store, liquor store, gas station, Hardware store, even the drive thru at the bank, everyone was abuzz, no one knew, and now I do, and ain't talk'n!
Robin
Robin
Been talked about around here for years. Many many pages. Cool story tho. “NU-UH”!!!!!
Robin
.475 A&M Magnum
You must be downright giddy!
Robin
Robin
It is somewhat nice to find an answer to something that many many people over many many years were unable to find.
Robin
.475 A&M Magnum
I, in my quest, have found the meaning of life. I'm sitting on that one too.
Robin
Robin
Okayyyyyyy
The basic flaw in this entire thread is that you make the assumption that gun control laws make sense.
The basic flaw in this thread is the OP.
Cry more
Well in this case nobody even knew what the law was. Now they do.
stokes
.338 Win Mag
Put it to rest? Then you come back 7 posts later and bitch nobody is arguing with you with
Just put it to rest and go back in your bunker and figure out something else to argue about.Wow. Surprised this didn’t get much traction. By searching this topic has been widely debated for years and when someone finally finds the actual answer.... crickets.
Let me help.
"Put to rest" means to reveal the correct answer once and for all that many were asking over many years and in many threads. Try searching. You'll see.
Whose arguing?
stokes
.338 Win Mag
You are.Back on pg 1 I said that security officers were exempt by law. You said they arent.And for 10 pages you argued with everyone the fact that you should be able to open carry.Now you find that you were wrong and posted the fact that they are exempt by law and you are prevented by law to open carry.Back to the bunker with you.
Huh? You may have offered up your thinking or belief but never cited any law because you didn’t know it. Now we not only know that what you thought was true (taking you at your word on that) but we know the exact language of the law. Still don’t see anyone arguing though. Thanks for contributing.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
Unless you have sent this to every officer in NY state (and got them all to read it), it doesn't actually change anything.
Here we go. The law isn’t what I wanted it to be so let’s start the twist. Really? You think every cop knows every law? Or that they need to? Ever hear of looking something up? You don’t think a cop is capable of having a cordial conversation with someone? You think they just spring out of their car guns a blazing and start cuffing everyone in sight? You think nobody is capable of a conversation? If asked about it one could simply cite the law and the officer could quickly verify they are correct using one of those fancy new wireless devices. Even if not, it still makes every difference in the world. Why? Because it’s the right answer. Your argument is akin to someone being arrested for wearing yellow socks. A cop somewhere might not like it and might even think it could be dis con or something. He can write away. At the end of the day he will be embarrassed and on the hook for violating someone’s civil rights under color of law. Knowingly doing so also strips them of their qualified immunity. Kind of a silly argument on your end but whatever.