Permits cover all counties (Except NYC), correct?

[Marine Cpl]

Will,

I'm not sure I agree with you about the "Lying isn't illegal" comment. I have read of arrests where the police officer asked someone in a vehicle for their name and date of birth, and then arrested them for lying. In fact, I remember reading just 1 week ago in the Buffalo News about a woman passenger in a car with 3 warrants out for her arrest who gave a false date of birth to an officer during a traffic stop in the hope of avoiding being arrested. I seem to recall that she was charged with Obstruction or something similar over lying about her DOB.

I wish the laws were uniform across the country. In lieu of that, if I am stopped while driving, and the officer asks to see my license (which is normally in my back pocket), while my hands are on the steering wheel, I plan to state to him: "Officer, before I reach for my ID, I am informing you that I have a valid NY concealed carry permit, and I am carrying. How would you like me to proceed?"

I respectfully disagree. There is nothing in the NY Penal Law that says lying is illegal.

In those cases where a person gives false information to identify themselves, if it doesn't check out, they are arrested so that their identification can be verified for warrant purposes.

You aren't under oath at a car stop. And a law enforcement officer in this state is breaking the law by asking you if you are armed at a routine traffic stop.

There are two types of law enforcement officers. Those that do their job and those that are going beyond and are fishing.

When you get the good one that doesn't ask and just runs your information, checks for warrants, and either gives you the ticket or a warning after you come up clean, everything is working as it is supposed to.

When you get the one that asks illegally if you are armed, he or she is the one that is looking for trouble. So why should you introduce a variable into the equation that can only go wrong?

By saying no, he or she is supposed to take your word and run your license that WILL come up clean and do his job by issuing you the ticket. If he asks you to step out of the car even after your information comes up clean, you have a guy or gal that is violating your rights in searching you since you aren't suspected of a crime and your information has come up clean. He or she is now making a conscience choice to find something wrong to lock you up on when there is no probable cause that you committed any crimes.

At that point things have gone wrong from his end and informing him after he orders you outside the vehicle that you are legally carrying makes no difference. He or she is already wrong and looking to make your life miserable.

The way I see it, more things can go wrong by informing him during the initial encounter then by not. You are introducing a variable into the equation that has no bearing on the routine traffic stop for speeding and informing him or her can lead to additional factors.

It sounds like I'm a hardliner but I'm only looking out for my own safety and it's none of his business if a legally armed and licensed law abiding citizen is carrying. You mean him no harm as a law abiding citizen so questions by him or her are pointless. A criminal is never going to say yes.

 

[VietnamEraVet]

I respectfully disagree. There is nothing in the NY Penal Law that says lying is illegal.

In those cases where a person gives false information to identify themselves, if it doesn't check out, they are arrested so that their identification can be verified for warrant purposes.

You aren't under oath at a car stop. And a law enforcement officer in this state is breaking the law by asking you if you are armed at a routine traffic stop.

There are two types of law enforcement officers. Those that do their job and those that are going beyond and are fishing.

When you get the good one that doesn't ask and just runs your information, checks for warrants, and either gives you the ticket or a warning after you come up clean, everything is working as it is supposed to.

When you get the one that asks illegally if you are armed, he or she is the one that is looking for trouble. So why should you introduce a variable into the equation that can only go wrong?

By saying no, he or she is supposed to take your word and run your license that WILL come up clean and do his job by issuing you the ticket. If he asks you to step out of the car even after your information comes up clean, you have a guy or gal that is violating your rights in searching you since you aren't suspected of a crime and your information has come up clean. He or she is now making a conscience choice to find something wrong to lock you up on when there is no probable cause that you committed any crimes.

At that point things have gone wrong from his end and informing him after he orders you outside the vehicle that you are legally carrying makes no difference. He or she is already wrong and looking to make your life miserable.

The way I see it, more things can go wrong by informing him during the initial encounter then by not. You are introducing a variable into the equation that has no bearing on the routine traffic stop for speeding and informing him or her can lead to additional factors.

It sounds like I'm a hardliner but I'm only looking out for my own safety and it's none of his business if a legally armed and licensed law abiding citizen is carrying. You mean him no harm as a law abiding citizen so questions by him or her are pointless. A criminal is never going to say yes.

Hey Will,

I hear you, but I think on this one we may just have to agree to disagree. One more thought on this...

How is the cop who stops me going to run my ID and get a clean check unless I have given him my ID to begin with? My concern is that some cop might get antsy when I shift my position in the car to reach behind me for my wallet in order to hand him my ID. Especially now, as I know that police (at least some of them) are getting info about the owner having a CCW when they run our plates, or from a plate scanner. I read about it being illegal to ask about firearms, but since when has a law on the books stopped NYS from ignoring them? (Cases in point: the 6 month CCW permit decision limit; NY UNSAFE; Albany corruption, and so on...)? I'm not by any means labeling all or most cops, but certainly there are a few bad ones out there (Officer Slappy, remember him?)

Do I want to lie to him, because it may be my right to as I am not under oath? I'm pretty sure there is a line between lying, and remaining silent. If a cop gets a hit back that the car he has stopped has a CCW, and he asks about guns (legally, or not), and is told "No", haven't I just raised his senses, and perhaps made him nervous? OK, so he doesn't have a right to ask. I get that. I'd rather keep it low stress all around, and go on my way. To each their own, and YMMV.

I've had interactions with both good cops (mostly good BTW), and one or two less so. If I notify him and give him my ID, I have still not given him permission to search my vehicle.

I would really like to hear from some of the LEO's on here in regard to this topic though.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Your wallet should be on your lap when he approaches. Why wait for him to approach you then reach for it? Waiting and doing so introduces sudden movements that you shouldn't be making. Wouldn't it be wiser to just have it on your lap when he approaches? You've got at least 3 minutes to do so after the lights are first turned on to the time he first approaches your window.

When a cop approaches my open window, my hands are on the steering wheel and the wallet is on my lap.

After he takes it and runs my license and I come up clean so why would he order me out of the vehicle?

 

[GOPerfect]

I will chime in a bit. Some coppers just suck, period. Some go on these fishing trips for no other reason than to do it. Some will go fishing because they "Know" something more is going on besides the basic traffic stop.

Police can tell a lot form the actions of the driver. On the other hand, you the driver can tell a lot about the officer pulling you over. Pay attention to the mannerisms of the officer pulling you over. I used to inform all the time that I was armed. That has changed. Even though I will get out of every ticket, I do not inform all of the time. I asses the situation and go from there.

The Purple ties are the worse. I place very little trust with them. It is a shame that there are so many on the road that do not know basic laws. I do not expect all Police to know all of the laws, that is impossible. I do expect them to remain professional and not make things up as they go along. Most of them do. The super majority are great people.

And by the way, Police officers can and do lie on a regular basis. No where in the law that says they can't. Everyday people can as well. Lying to the Police is not unlawful, to an extent. You cannot lie about who you are as an example.

 

[Checkers]

Now I'm terrified he'll be reporting me for carrying out of restriction..... Fuck

 

[GOPerfect]

why would he order you out of the vehicle?

If, after he runs you, you come up clean and he still wants you out of the vehicle, he is being a dick!

Call your local law enforcement desk and ask for a supervisor to come on scene.

 

[GOPerfect]

Now I'm terrified he'll be reporting me for carrying out of restriction..... Fuck

I highly doubt it. I would not worry. You are probably already forgotten in his mind.

 

[VietnamEraVet]

Now I'm terrified he'll be reporting me for carrying out of restriction..... Fuck

Try not to worry about it, - because even if he did, there is nothing you can do about it now, - except to remember that you recall you were coming back from hiking and you believe you were carrying in accordance with the Sportsman restriction on your permit. Because that's what you were doing as I recall, right?

 

[SubOhm]

You are not really trying to "fly under the radar" if you're driving around in any kind of modded car. It's pretty much guaranteed to get you pulled over all the time.

 

[Darth]

Before we keep spreading this completely made up rumour about the restrictions, I say wait. When you see nothing happens, we go back to normal.

All the more reason to offer nothing to the cops though.

 

[VietnamEraVet]

Your wallet should be on your lap when he approaches. Why wait for him to approach you then reach for it?

When a cop approaches my open window, my hands are on the steering wheel and the wallet is on my lap.

After he takes it and runs your license, you come up clean so why would he order you out of the vehicle?

Although I had heard the point about having your wallet out on your lap, I hadn't considered doing that. Partly because, I have also read that police might become suspicious if they see you shifting around in your seat before they come up to your window.

In my case, between trying to take off my seatbelt and move my big fat ass around to get my George Costanza sized wallet out, I'd be concerned he might think I was up to no good... That, and now have I given him grounds to cite me for not wearing my seatbelt?

 

[Checkers]

Try not to worry about it, - because even if he did, there is nothing you can do about it now, - except to remember that you recall you were coming back from hiking and you believe you were carrying in accordance with the Sportsman restriction on your permit. Because that's what you were doing as I recall, right?

Yeah definitely. He asked where I was coming from, and I told him my friend's house in Fishkill, because we had just finished up a hike.

 

[Checkers]

Although I had heard the point about having your wallet out on your lap, I hadn't considered doing that. Partly because, I have also read that police might become suspicious if they see you shifting around in your seat before they come up to your window.

In my case, between trying to take off my seatbelt and move my big fat ass around to get my George Costanza sized wallet out, I'd be concerned he might think I was up to no good... That, and now have I given him grounds to cite me for not wearing my seatbelt?

Since I started carrying, I'll often throw my wallet on the seat next to me, or the center console, because the muzzle of my gun makes it hard to get to my wallet when sitting. Fortunately this time, it was sitting in my cupholder

 

[Marine Cpl]

Although I had heard the point about having your wallet out on your lap, I hadn't considered doing that. Partly because, I have also read that police might become suspicious if they see you shifting around in your seat before they come up to your window.

In my case, between trying to take off my seatbelt and move my big fat ass around to get my George Costanza sized wallet out, I'd be concerned he might think I was up to no good... That, and now have I given him grounds to cite me for not wearing my seatbelt?

If you need to remove your seatbelt to get to your wallet, you should consider having it out of your back pocket when you drive for your own safety.

 

[Doc8404]

If, after he runs you, you come up clean and he still wants you out of the vehicle, he is being a dick!

Call your local law enforcement desk and ask for a supervisor to come on scene.

Yeah like the NYSP SGT I spoke to recently re the "innocent" Guy driving his car with a half mask respirator on.

 

[VietnamEraVet]

If you need to remove your seatbelt to get to your wallet, you should consider having it out of your back pocket when you drive for your own safety.

I was just kidding about the size of my wallet (from an old Seinfeld episode), and the need to remove my seatbelt to get to it. I prefer to keep it in my pocket rather than in my car as it is easy to forget it, and then you don't have it (and your CCW) on you later if you need it. But I actually have read enough about some cops being concerned if you seem to be rooting around when stopped, and before they come up to talk to you.

6 of one, or a half dozen in my mind. I will probably just stick with my approach for now.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Do you have Veteran Plates? If not, they help and minimize interaction with the police.

I've gotten out of two tickets with the plates after I've been asked where I served and when. One speeding and one for rolling a stop sign at less than 1 mph. Another time I was given a 25 dollar obstruction ticket instead of a speeding ticket.

They have VFW plates, Vietnam, Persian Gulf, ect.

Also a tinted back window minimizes what they see when they first put the lights on if you are worried about them seeing you fumbling around for your wallet.

No disrespect intended but I think you are slightly paranoid. If asked what was I reaching for while moving at 60 mph with a police car 2 car lengths behind me, the wallet on my lap would be my answer.

 

[carpediem]

It used to be that you had 24 hours to fix equipment violations (light out, missing plate, bald tire, tint) and show them to a police agency and they'd be dropped. Do they not do that anymore?

Yes, but you don't technically have 24 hours. You have until sundown the following day. Sounds like a threat a sheriff would make in a spaghetti western.

 

[Greywolf224]

Sounds like a threat a sheriff would make in a spaghetti western.

Watch it...I belong to the ILM (Italian Lives Matter)
Anyway what you got against Josey Wales!

 

[carpediem]

Watch it...I belong to the ILM (Italian Lives Matter)
Anyway what you got against Josey Wales!

I can say that, third generation Italian LEGAL immigrant descendant! Nothing at all!

 

[Greywolf224]

I can say that, third generation Italian LEGAL immigrant descendant! Nothing at all!

Nice to know I got a paisano! First generation here. Granpa would have been 128 this year. Became a citizen 1902 and Fought in France for the US in WWI than went back home. Dad who did not get drafted due to suffering from Polio was naturalized through Granpa

 

[carpediem]

Nice to know I got a paisano! First generation here. Granpa would have been 128 this year. Became a citizen 1902 and Fought in France for the US in WWI than went back home. Dad who did not get drafted due to suffering from Polio was naturalized through Granpa

Our family got here in '06. Citizens in the '20s. Cousins, recently passed in their 90s, fought in WWII. One in the Battle of the Bulge. My daughter is the 5th or 6th generation in our church.

 

[Doc8404]

Do you have Veteran Plates? If not, they help and minimize interaction with the police.

I've gotten out of two tickets with the plates after I've been asked where I served and when. One speeding and one for rolling a stop sign at less than 1 mph. Another time I was given a 25 dollar obstruction ticket instead of a speeding ticket.

They have VFW plates, Vietnam, Persian Gulf, ect.

Also a tinted back window minimizes what they see when they first put the lights on if you are worried about them seeing you fumbling around for your wallet.

No disrespect intended but I think you are slightly paranoid. If asked what was I reaching for while moving at 60 mph with a police car 2 car lengths behind me, the wallet on my lap would be my answer.

You military guys are special.
Oh wait.




My VFW plates and stickers have helped. Have to admit. Checkpoint "Doc, how's it going?"
"Good brother. Be safe out here."
Waived on.

Now come the haters.

 

[VietnamEraVet]

Do you have Veteran Plates? If not, they help and minimize interaction with the police.

I've gotten out of two tickets with the plates after I've been asked where I served and when. One speeding and one for rolling a stop sign at less than 1 mph. Another time I was given a 25 dollar obstruction ticket instead of a speeding ticket.

They have VFW plates, Vietnam, Persian Gulf, ect.

Also a tinted back window minimizes what they see when they first put the lights on if you are worried about them seeing you fumbling around for your wallet.

No disrespect intended but I think you are slightly paranoid. If asked what was I reaching for while moving at 60 mph with a police car 2 car lengths behind me, the wallet on my lap would be my answer.

Nope, no special plates for me. I drive your basic dull suburbanite vehicle, - no loud colors, no bumper stickers, extra tint, flashy anything, loud pipes... That's how I try and "fly under the radar".

As for being slightly paranoid, maybe, who really knows for sure. But then, sometimes when I look at the shit that has happened in my life, I think back, and think, nope, - not completely paranoid quite yet!

 

[Celt]

Now I'm terrified he'll be reporting me for carrying out of restriction..... Fuck

But you were not outside of your restrictions, you just got back from hiking. Now request from the site staff to delete this thread and get your story straight

 

[libertysnake]

The question is, - does your permit have any administrative restrictions on it? While that issue has been argued extensively among the forum members, the bottom line with restrictions is that although they cannot arrest you for carrying concealed if you have a permit that is restricted to target/hunting for example, - they can report to the licensing officer in your county, and he can suspend or revoke it if he chooses to for "carrying outside of your restrictions". I know that some permit holders with restricted licenses have said that they carry a folded up target in their wallet as they are always coming or going to their 24 hour range...

If however, your permit is "Unrestricted", you can legally carry concealed in every NY county EXCEPT for the 5 NY city counties. If the officer told you differently, he was either sadly misinformed, or being a jerk.

Just out of curiosity, is yours Unrestricted"? Also, would you care to tell us how your traffic stop went with regard to your CCW? Did you bring it up, or did he?

Some also say "Full Carry" such as the one I have. I've been told this is also unrestricted as well. It depends on the area what they call it. Sometimes unrestricted, sometimes "full carry."

 

[2WheelGnnr]

I would also think an arrest is one thing while being charged another. like this scenerio...leo arrests joe public for something...takes him to lock up.....then they let him go as it was found there are no charges to be associates ith your so called crime. My view..sure he can arrest someone for carrying in another county but did that guy really get charged or just let go when he got to lock up?! Just a thought. arrest is one thing....sent to jail another.

 

[Justincase]

So, did he just equate hearing protection with shooting, or did you inform him of your carrying at the time that led him to that conclusion?

I'm just curious for two reasons. One, if I saw hearing protection, shooting would be one of the last things I'd assume they were for, and two, did he automatically know you were a CCP holder when running your plate before he approached which made him assume that's what they were for? Interesting regardless.