Permits cover all counties (Except NYC), correct?

[Checkers]

Hey everyone,

So last night I got pulled over for a headlight out. Long story short, when he saw my permit, he said we had a problem, and my heart sank. My license says "State of New York, County of Westchester" and he said that means I'm only allowed to carry in Westchester, and we were in Putnam at the time.

I very politely explained it should be valid in all of NY, except NYC, which is why on the back it only says "Not valid in NYC" but he told me he arrested someone a few weeks ago for carrying int he wrong county.....

He was a pretty nice guy and said he wasn't going to go any further, but I should check it out. And before leaving he asked to see it once more to 'check something'. I didn't ask what he was looking for because I just wanted to go home, it was like 11pm and my food was getting cold.

But he was wrong, right? I was always under the impressions that a permit is a NY permit, not a county permit, and I'd really like some reassurance. Thank you!

 

[JamieZ]

Your New York State pistol license is only valid in the counties outside the 5 counties of New York City unless it is validated by New York City. You may not take your handguns into the city, this includes Self Protection licensees, with a few exceptions.

 

[JamieZ]

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/newyork.pdf

 

[Greywolf224]

Turn it into a positive and hey maybe you will have a new LEO friend.

I would go down to his barracks or station just to talk it over with him. Bring some paper work indicating so. Listen I know this is a crazy statement made by an LEO who should know the law. But hey maybe he will be grateful to you or maybe he knows something that we dont.
Cant hurt.

 

[wirehairfan]

He was wrong. I'm curious, why did he see your permit?

 

[VietnamEraVet]

Hey everyone,

So last night I got pulled over for a headlight out. Long story short, when he saw my permit, he said we had a problem, and my heart sank. My license says "State of New York, County of Westchester" and he said that means I'm only allowed to carry in Westchester, and we were in Putnam at the time.

I very politely explained it should be valid in all of NY, except NYC, which is why on the back it only says "Not valid in NYC" but he told me he arrested someone a few weeks ago for carrying int he wrong county.....

He was a pretty nice guy and said he wasn't going to go any further, but I should check it out. And before leaving he asked to see it once more to 'check something'. I didn't ask what he was looking for because I just wanted to go home, it was like 11pm and my food was getting cold.

But he was wrong, right? I was always under the impressions that a permit is a NY permit, not a county permit, and I'd really like some reassurance. Thank you!

The question is, - does your permit have any administrative restrictions on it? While that issue has been argued extensively among the forum members, the bottom line with restrictions is that although they cannot arrest you for carrying concealed if you have a permit that is restricted to target/hunting for example, - they can report to the licensing officer in your county, and he can suspend or revoke it if he chooses to for "carrying outside of your restrictions". I know that some permit holders with restricted licenses have said that they carry a folded up target in their wallet as they are always coming or going to their 24 hour range...

If however, your permit is "Unrestricted", you can legally carry concealed in every NY county EXCEPT for the 5 NY city counties. If the officer told you differently, he was either sadly misinformed, or being a jerk.

Just out of curiosity, is yours Unrestricted"? Also, would you care to tell us how your traffic stop went with regard to your CCW? Did you bring it up, or did he?

 

[nortatoga]

This is found under Penal Law 400.00 (6.)

 

[Darth]

He's wrong.

"I arrested someone weeks ago for..."

Well aren't you the big man? I'm certainly impressed. Probably had all the ladies hanging off you at the bar that night.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I'm having a hard time buying this story. If it is indeed true, I apologize.

First off, I think every cop has got to know that NY CCW licenses are valid everywhere minus NYC. Maybe you got that one cop.

2nd, you say it's a Westchester License. If you aren't a former LEO, it's going to be restricted. The county does not want you to carry but you can. (That's a whole other thread.) So perhaps the cop was talking about your restrictions?

And 3rd, why did he see your license to begin with? I've been pulled over and never asked to see my Pistol License.

 

[Criticalt]

He's wrong.

"I arrested someone weeks ago for..."

Well aren't you the big man? I'm certainly impressed. Probably had all the ladies hanging off you at the bar that night.

The cop must have forgotten the part about the guy he arrested being let go with an apology and a handshake........because it was an ILLEGAL arrest!!

 

[Magnus]

Should have asked what happened to the guy he arrested.

 

[Checkers]

Your New York State pistol license is only valid in the counties outside the 5 counties of New York City unless it is validated by New York City. You may not take your handguns into the city, this includes Self Protection licensees, with a few exceptions.

That's what I always thought, but the Trooper really made me second guess myself though

Turn it into a positive and hey maybe you will have a new LEO friend.

I would go down to his barracks or station just to talk it over with him. Bring some paper work indicating so. Listen I know this is a crazy statement made by an LEO who should know the law. But hey maybe he will be grateful to you or maybe he knows something that we dont.
Cant hurt.

He was actually a cool guy. Gave me a ton of other tickets, but very pleasant to deal with

He was wrong. I'm curious, why did he see your permit?

I had my ear pro on my passenger seat, and he asked me if I had been shooting. I told him no, but I often make unplanned trips and keep them in the car. He asked if I had a gun, and I said yes, told him where, and he asked to see my permit and gun, so I leaned over to my left, raised my right arm so it would show my gun, and that was the end of that.

The question is, - does your permit have any administrative restrictions on it? While that issue has been argued extensively among the forum members, the bottom line with restrictions is that although they cannot arrest you for carrying concealed if you have a permit that is restricted to target/hunting for example, - they can report to the licensing officer in your county, and he can suspend or revoke it if he chooses to for "carrying outside of your restrictions". I know that some permit holders with restricted licenses have said that they carry a folded up target in their wallet as they are always coming or going to their 24 hour range...

If however, your permit is "Unrestricted", you can legally carry concealed in every NY county EXCEPT for the 5 NY city counties. If the officer told you differently, he was either sadly misinformed, or being a jerk.

Just out of curiosity, is yours Unrestricted"? Also, would you care to tell us how your traffic stop went with regard to your CCW? Did you bring it up, or did he?

I do have a Sportsperson restriction, however he was a State Trooper and didn't seem to be aware of the administrative restrictions.

And to explain a little more about why the permit even came up, is because I had my ear pro on my passenger seat. I have a private club nearby and do sometimes just drop in. He asked to see my permit so I handed it to him, then he asked to see my gun, so I leaned over and hiked up my shirt. He also told me I should always tell the officer I have a gun. I didn't want to say "NY is not a duty to inform state" so I told him I was going to give him my permit to avoid any buzzwords like "Gun" or "Pistol".

In regard to the pistol, it was no big deal. He said he thought it was county by county, I said I thought it was all counties, but not NYC. He was very nice and said something like "Alright, I won't go any further with that but make sure" and then we went on with my headlight being out

I'm having a hard time buying this story. If it is indeed true, I apologize.

First off, I think every cop has got to know that NY CCW licenses are valid everywhere minus NYC. Maybe you got that one cop.

2nd, you say it's a Westchester License. If you aren't a former LEO, it's going to be restricted. The county does not want you to carry but you can. (That's a whole other thread.) So perhaps the cop was talking about your restrictions?

And 3rd, why did he see your license to begin with? I've been pulled over and never asked to see my Pistol License.

No worries man, I can assure you it was very real, and show you the multiple tickets he gave me All little things like my headlight burnt out the day before, I don't have a front plate, etc.

So to answer in order of your questions

1. I have no idea how he didn't know these things. He was a State Trooper, so I expected him to be more well-versed than a local cop

2. It is a Sportsperson permit, but he outright said "You can only carry in Westchester, we're in Putnam". He didn't even seem to know what the restrictions were.

3. My ear pro was on my passenger seat, and he asked if I had been shooting. I said no, but I do often go to my pistol club not too far, and then he asked if I was armed (I was) which led to him asking for my permit. I did not plan on telling him I had my pistol on me though

The cop must have forgotten the part about the guy he arrested being let go with an apology and a handshake........because it was an ILLEGAL arrest!!

I was honestly almost hoping he'd arrest me, because I knew it'd probably get my a settlement, haha. I'm glad I just got to go home and sleep in my own bed though




So just for everyone who is curious, I had ear pro on my passenger seat, which is why the conversation started in the first place. I'll often just randomly drop by my pistol club, so I keep ear and eye pro, targets, etc. It started as my reason to carry as a Sportsperson, and just turned into a habit

 

[Marine Cpl]

I had my ear pro on my passenger seat, and he asked me if I had been shooting. I told him no, but I often make unplanned trips and keep them in the car. He asked if I had a gun, and I said yes, told him where, and he asked to see my permit and gun, so I leaned over to my left, raised my right arm so it would show my gun, and that was the end of that.

Looks like that cop doesn't know a lot of things. In NYS, it is illegal for a law enforcement officer to ask you if you have a firearm at a car stop unless he suspects you of a crime.

Cops Can't Just Ask Motorists About Guns: NY Court

 

[Celt]

The guy is a freaking moron.

Pistol permit being valid only in a County, was he a young guy or an old guy because it sounds like it might have been his first day on the job?

And dollars to doughnuts he didn't arrest anybody for it, he was using a bullying tactic to feel you out.

 

[Greywolf224]

I had my ear pro on my passenger seat, and he asked me if I had been shooting. I told him no, but I often make unplanned trips and keep them in the car. He asked if I had a gun, and I said yes, told him where, and he asked to see my permit and gun, so I leaned over to my left, raised my right arm so it would show my gun, and that was the end of that.

Looks like that cop doesn't know a lot of things. In NYS, it is illegal for a law enforcement officer to ask you if you have a firearm at a car stop unless he suspects you of a crime.

Cops Can't Just Ask Motorists About Guns: NY Court

I do understand where you are coming from with this and I wholeheartedly agree with you, but I think this LEO new the laws very well and was testing @Checkers. The LEO placed checkers in a situation of is he going to lie to me and say no I dont have a gun than find some other reason to search him and accuse him of lying to an officer and then having to deal with the repercussions. He was also testing checkers to see how much of the law he knew.
He was fishing to get him on something. Checkers had his ear pro on the seat, the officer knew it was checkers alibi as why he was carrying while restricted and couldn't charge him on carrying while restricted.

I personally feel that checkers did the right thing. Answered the questions that were asked, kept the situation from escalating and got to sleep in his own bed. Why antagonize the LEO with I know my rights bullshit. He can make your life a living hell. Its a very very rare occasion that the opposite is true.

Moral of the story: Get your headlights fixed asap and what ever else caused you to get a bunch of tickets and you would not have gotten pulled over in the first place.

Okay boys and girls I'm ready.................for the are you fucken nuts comments!

 

[Marine Cpl]

You are correct I believe about the fishing to see what he would say about carrying while restricted but are nucking futs about making his job easier.

He chose his job and the law is the law. It works both ways. He wouldn't have given Checkers a break if he found something so why should Checkers make his job easier when the cop himself is doing something illegal by asking about a firearm.

 

[Robin]

Probably the same guy that confiscated the cardboard carbine. Peu, peu, peu...
Robin

 

[Celt]

I have earpro sitting on my passenger seat right now and if asked why, it's for work.

That would then prompt response "what kind of work do you do", and my response would be completely dependent on his tone and demeanor. If he was being an asshole I would tell him that it's none of his business. If he was cool I might tell him.

If I ever get asked if I am carrying a weapon in the car my default response is that I respectfully decline to answer that question.

 

[Marine Cpl]

My answer would be a flat No! Lying isn't illegal. If asked to step out then I would tell him the truth.

I'm not trying to be a tough guy or anything but more can go wrong by saying yes than no.

If asked to step out, things are already going wrong for you.

 

[Checkers]

I had my ear pro on my passenger seat, and he asked me if I had been shooting. I told him no, but I often make unplanned trips and keep them in the car. He asked if I had a gun, and I said yes, told him where, and he asked to see my permit and gun, so I leaned over to my left, raised my right arm so it would show my gun, and that was the end of that.

Looks like that cop doesn't know a lot of things. In NYS, it is illegal for a law enforcement officer to ask you if you have a firearm at a car stop unless he suspects you of a crime.

Cops Can't Just Ask Motorists About Guns: NY Court

I had ZERO idea this was a law, thank you. He did straight up ask if there were guns in the car. It seems he tried to bait me with the "were you shooting" hoping I'd say "Yes, I have my gun with me" but failed, so he asked outright

The guy is a freaking moron.

Pistol permit being valid only in a County, was he a young guy or an old guy because it sounds like it might have been his first day on the job?

And dollars to doughnuts he didn't arrest anybody for it, he was using a bullying tactic to feel you out.

He was younger, maybe 30, 35 at most. And I definitely agree he didn't arrest anyone. I was surprised though, but reiterated that as far as I knew, it was only invalid in NYC, since it says "Not valid in NYC" on the back

I do understand where you are coming from with this and I wholeheartedly agree with you, but I think this LEO new the laws very well and was testing @Checkers. The LEO placed checkers in a situation of is he going to lie to me and say no I dont have a gun than find some other reason to search him and accuse him of lying to an officer and then having to deal with the repercussions. He was also testing checkers to see how much of the law he knew.
He was fishing to get him on something. Checkers had his ear pro on the seat, the officer knew it was checkers alibi as why he was carrying while restricted and couldn't charge him on carrying while restricted.

I personally feel that checkers did the right thing. Answered the questions that were asked, kept the situation from escalating and got to sleep in his own bed. Why antagonize the LEO with I know my rights bullshit. He can make your life a living hell. Its a very very rare occasion that the opposite is true.

Moral of the story: Get your headlights fixed asap and what ever else caused you to get a bunch of tickets and you would not have gotten pulled over in the first place.

Okay boys and girls I'm ready.................for the are you fucken nuts comments!

I would agree. I drive a beat up 94 Miata, it is modified, I'm a 23 year old guy with tattoos, so he was probably pushing to see if I'd slip up on something. I try to keep fairly well versed on gun laws, which is why I was very shocked to hear him say it was Westchester only.

I'm glad to hear you agree I did the right thing, thank you. He was very inquisitive, but not rude or pushy, so I saw no reason to get confrontational.

I'm not sure he is familiar with Westchester's restrictions though. Before he let me leave though, he did ask to see my permit one last time to "check something". I thought it wise to not ask what it was, but I'm guessing he was looking at the restriction. He was in his car for a good 15 minutes, and I bet he called someone and they told him to look for that.

But all in all, I got ticketed fairly, and he didn't pull any BS. He told me to plead Not Guilty, show up with pictures/receipts from getting everything taken care of, and said the prosecutor should plead it down. I'm no stranger to traffic court so I'm not worried, but ever since I started carrying, I've been pretty adament about flying under the radar.

 

[Checkers]

My answer would be a flat No! Lying isn't illegal. If asked to step out then I would tell him the truth.

I'm not trying to be a tough guy or anything but more can go wrong by saying yes than no.

If asked to step out, things are already going wrong for you.

I wasn't going to mention the gun originally, since we have no duty to inform. However, I didn't want to outright lie though and get him upset. Even if I did nothing wrong, he could still make me get out, breathlyze me, etc and basically just cause me more trouble than it was worth.

And if there was something I'd lie to a cop about, it's NOT having a gun on me. If I say I have no gun, and he somehow gets a peek, then I get a bullet from a panicked officer.....

 

[carpediem]

I've been pretty adament about flying under the radar.

The best place to be!

 

[Marine Cpl]

I wasn't going to mention the gun originally, since we have no duty to inform. However, I didn't want to outright lie though and get him upset. Even if I did nothing wrong, he could still make me get out, breathlyze me, etc and basically just cause me more trouble than it was worth.

And if there was something I'd lie to a cop about, it's NOT having a gun on me. If I say I have no gun, and he somehow gets a peek, then I get a bullet from a panicked officer.....

It goes like this.

Do you know why I stopped you. Yes. I was speeding.

Do you have a firearm? No. (It should end there because you have committed no crime.) He isn't going to ask you to step out to search you unless he suspects you of committing a crime.

Now let's say he suspects you of committing a crime and orders you to step out of the vehicle. Your response should be as follows....

I am informing you that I have a license to carry and am doing so. How do you want me to proceed? (While never removing your hands from the steering wheel.)

And how would he get a peak and know you are carrying unless you are doing a real piss poor job of concealing it?

 

[VietnamEraVet]

I hate to say it, and hope I'm wrong, but I have a sneaking suspicion that you may not have heard the last of this.

Why? I think there is a fair possibility that the cop may decide to file a report with the Westchester PPO that you were carrying outside of your Sportsman restriction.

As I understand it, regarding those damn BS restrictions, when NOT carrying concealed with an Unrestricted permit, your handgun is not supposed to be being carried loaded and concealed on your person. It is supposed to be transported like a long gun,- unloaded and out of your reach unless you are at the range. Or, in the case of a Sportsman restriction, it can be on your person and loaded while hunting, camping, canoeing, etc.

If that officer wants to be a prick or make a name for himself with his superior, he just might report you for carrying concealed outside of your restriction. Given that you said he wrote you a bunch of tickets, AND he took the extra time to look over something about your permit, I wonder about his motives.

You may want to watch your ass, and your mailbox, and keep your story straight in case you get called before the Judge with your permit suspended.

 

[Celt]

I hate to say it, and hope I'm wrong, but I have a sneaking suspicion that you may not have heard the last of this.

Why? I think there is a fair possibility that the cop may decide to file a report with the Westchester PPO that you were carrying outside of your Sportsman restriction.

As I understand it, regarding those damn BS restrictions, when NOT carrying concealed with an Unrestricted permit, your handgun is not supposed to be being carried loaded and concealed on your person. It is supposed to be transported like a long gun,- unloaded and out of your reach unless you are at the range. Or, in the case of a Sportsman restriction, it can be on your person and loaded while hunting, camping, canoeing, etc.

If that officer wants to be a prick or make a name for himself with his superior, he just might report you for carrying concealed outside of your restriction. Given that you said he wrote you a bunch of tickets, AND he took the extra time to look over something about your permit, I wonder about his motives.

You may want to watch your ass, and your mailbox, and keep your story straight in case you get called before the Judge with your permit suspended.

That's a good point about the trooper taking this further. And considering he has a sports person permit I'm sure he was on his way back from hiking so he was perfectly within his administrative restrictions to be carrying. As for your comment about keeping it unloaded and locked securely, I do not believe that to be accurate. A New York state carry permit is just that, it is a carry permit; administrative restrictions only change when you can carry (avording to the issuing officer/judge).

 

[VietnamEraVet]

That's a good point about the trooper taking this further. And considering he has a sports person permit I'm sure he was on his way back from hiking so he was perfectly within his administrative restrictions to be carrying. As for your comment about keeping it unloaded and locked securely, I do not believe that to be accurate. A New York state carry permit is just that, it is a carry permit; administrative restrictions only change when you can carry (avording to the issuing officer/judge).

You could be right about the loaded and locked. I'm going from memory what I was told when I got my permit. I guess it is time to go look it up again and be 100% certain...

And I'm sure you're correct as well that he was returning from hiking!
.

 

[GOYABEAN]

Oh GOD they will add this BS to another safe act success story FUAC AND THE PENCIL PUSHING POLITICIANS

 

[atc250r]

It used to be that you had 24 hours to fix equipment violations (light out, missing plate, bald tire, tint) and show them to a police agency and they'd be dropped. Do they not do that anymore?

 

[VietnamEraVet]

My answer would be a flat No! Lying isn't illegal. If asked to step out then I would tell him the truth.

I'm not trying to be a tough guy or anything but more can go wrong by saying yes than no.

If asked to step out, things are already going wrong for you.

Will,

I'm not sure I agree with you about the "Lying isn't illegal" comment. I have read of arrests where the police officer asked someone in a vehicle for their name and date of birth, and then arrested them for lying. In fact, I remember reading just 1 week ago in the Buffalo News about a woman passenger in a car with 3 warrants out for her arrest who gave a false date of birth to an officer during a traffic stop in the hope of avoiding being arrested. I seem to recall that she was charged with Obstruction or something similar over lying about her DOB.

I wish the laws were uniform across the country. In lieu of that, if I am stopped while driving, and the officer asks to see my license (which is normally in my back pocket), while my hands are on the steering wheel, I plan to state to him: "Officer, before I reach for my ID, I am informing you that I have a valid NY concealed carry permit, and I am carrying. How would you like me to proceed?"

 

[Greywolf224]

"Officer, before I reach for my ID, I am informing you that I have a valid NY concealed carry permit, and I am carrying. How would you like me to proceed?"

That is exactly what I have done and will continue to do. To each his/her own. I never had anything to hide so not afraid to divulge and it kept the conversation very civil.

It was always my impression that Lying to an LEO could and would be held against you.
What Happens if You Lie to a Police Officer?

For the LEO's on the forum, forget the laws for a second, what do you personally prefer and feel is the better way to keep everyone at ease?