Pistol Brace Decision! 5th Circuit Rules in MOCK V GARLAND (necro thread)
- Thread starter Acer-m14
- Start date
In short..sent back down to district court for fact finding about the pistol braces...................
What a mess that decision is to read...like walking thru knee deep mud.
The conflict between any Agency, trying to write NEW law under the authority of the federal Administrative Procedure Act--the APA, has been shot in the head by SCOTUS....... ALREADY against the EPA...........and this applies to the any Agency and the ATF, too.
Other lower courts have already said that the ATF final rule is basically an unconstitutional situation, based upon the anti APA ruling by Scotus, and other courts agree............... and that Bruen rules.
But...
The arm brace situation is insane, and involves interpreting some older actual written law................... and the court could not figure it out.
THE COURT COULD NOT FIGURE IT OUT..THE DIFF BETWEEN A SBR AND A PISTOL.....
I do not know what it means, but that libs heads are exploding, over this ruling, IS true
What a mess that decision is to read...like walking thru knee deep mud.
The conflict between any Agency, trying to write NEW law under the authority of the federal Administrative Procedure Act--the APA, has been shot in the head by SCOTUS....... ALREADY against the EPA...........and this applies to the any Agency and the ATF, too.
Other lower courts have already said that the ATF final rule is basically an unconstitutional situation, based upon the anti APA ruling by Scotus, and other courts agree............... and that Bruen rules.
But...
The arm brace situation is insane, and involves interpreting some older actual written law................... and the court could not figure it out.
THE COURT COULD NOT FIGURE IT OUT..THE DIFF BETWEEN A SBR AND A PISTOL.....
I do not know what it means, but that libs heads are exploding, over this ruling, IS true
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spat
.700 Nitro Express
I still want someone to sue to get the whole SBS/SBR part of the NFA overturned over this.
After all, if the ATF changes it's mind about what is prohibited like this, doesn't that mean the statute itself must be unconstitutionally vague ?
void for vagueness
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
hay this was A okay .. .. a sbr now .. 
FrankenCub
.338 Win Mag
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
ATF is slowly imploding
Dr. Evil
20×102mm Vulcan
Dr. Evil
20×102mm Vulcan
Federal Judge Stays Entire ATF Pistol Brace Rule
A Texas-based Federal District Court judge issued a nationwide stay preventing the ATF pistol brace rule from going into effect.
www.ammoland.com
ArmedCorgi
.475 A&M Magnum
Now we have the right precedent set directly against the ATF this time. The EPA ruling should have been enough, but this being directly against the ATF is huge.
Except in New York where the Constitution and Federal Judges mean nothing.
We really need to start going after the NFA, pistol braces, bump stocks, forced reset triggers are all small potatoes and a waste of time.
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
and the Rules come crumbling down ..
Excuse my ignorance, but it many other rulings it ends up only affecting the region covered by that court, or only affects the plaintiffs.
How does this Texas-based District court affect the rule nationwide when it hasn't even been to the 5th Circuit yet?
How does this Texas-based District court affect the rule nationwide when it hasn't even been to the 5th Circuit yet?
spat
.700 Nitro Express
Because that judge had the balls to write his ruling that way AFAIK.
Leftist judges frequently write expansive rulings that cover the who country while they are appealed.
Conservative judges are under the illusion that the rule of law still means something in this country, so they try not to overstep their authority.
Saltwater60
.950 JDJ
And quickly before our Supreme Court lead evaporates
Because the ATF is effectuating the rule Nation Wide...
And yes, from the EPA ruling, all acronym agencies who makes "rules" outside the limits and mandates for those agencies established by Congress should be on notice! But they will completely ignore the ruling, just wait and see...
Like the IRS established new tiers of taxation... isn't this Congress's job? Who the hell are agency/politburo slobs to establish those tiers? Hey, IRS, we need money, lets adjust the game a bit so we can take in more dough! Say it ain't so uncle JOE! and no, there'll be no malfeasance when the IRS agency has bolstered its audit arm for return processing while arming a good number of those agents too.
Anyways, back to this ruling... the Federal Gov't most assuredly has this all lined up and will just adjust and reapply the restrictions under a different name, or process! Probably go after the manufacturers, check their books, banking, employees, etc.! for anything they could use to shut them down...
And yes, from the EPA ruling, all acronym agencies who makes "rules" outside the limits and mandates for those agencies established by Congress should be on notice! But they will completely ignore the ruling, just wait and see...
Like the IRS established new tiers of taxation... isn't this Congress's job? Who the hell are agency/politburo slobs to establish those tiers? Hey, IRS, we need money, lets adjust the game a bit so we can take in more dough! Say it ain't so uncle JOE! and no, there'll be no malfeasance when the IRS agency has bolstered its audit arm for return processing while arming a good number of those agents too.
Anyways, back to this ruling... the Federal Gov't most assuredly has this all lined up and will just adjust and reapply the restrictions under a different name, or process! Probably go after the manufacturers, check their books, banking, employees, etc.! for anything they could use to shut them down...
spat
.700 Nitro Express
When the punishment for violating the constitution is just that you have to stop doing it in that exact way, of course they're going to ignore the rules.
Just like shoplifters in some jurisdictions ignore the rules when the only punishment they suffer is that they have to give the stolen goods back *if* they get caught.
The only solution is for *each and every* officer or agent who violates the constitution to be liable for the harm they cause.
Now, I know a number of people will say "that's not their call" or "we can't do our job if we have to worry about that".
To that, I say "bullshit". If you're not confident enough in the constitutionality of a statute to risk
your own neck, then you absolutely should not be risking someone elses.
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Robin
.475 A&M Magnum
I believe they are felonies in New York.
Robin
Uninformed and Compliant
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Crimes. Actual crimes that are committed.
New York Consolidated Laws, Penal Law - PEN § 135.60 Coercion in the third degree
Current as of January 01, 2021 | Updated by FindLaw Staff
A person is guilty of coercion in the third degree when he or she compels or induces a person to engage in conduct which the latter has a legal right to abstain from engaging in, or to abstain from engaging in conduct in which he or she has a legal right to engage, or compels or induces a person to join a group, organization or criminal enterprise which such latter person has a right to abstain from joining, by means of instilling in him or her a fear that, if the demand is not complied with, the actor or another will:
1. Cause physical injury to a person; or
2. Cause damage to property; or
3. Engage in other conduct constituting a crime; or
4. Accuse some person of a crime or cause criminal charges to be instituted against him or her; or
5. Expose a secret or publicize an asserted fact, whether true or false, tending to subject some person to hatred, contempt or ridicule; or
6. Cause a strike, boycott or other collective labor group action injurious to some person's business; except that such a threat shall not be deemed coercive when the act or omission compelled is for the benefit of the group in whose interest the actor purports to act; or
7. Testify or provide information or withhold testimony or information with respect to another's legal claim or defense; or
8. Use or abuse his or her position as a public servant by performing some act within or related to his or her official duties, or by failing or refusing to perform an official duty, in such manner as to affect some person adversely; or
9. Perform any other act which would not in itself materially benefit the actor but which is calculated to harm another person materially with respect to his or her health, safety, business, calling, career, financial condition, reputation or personal relationships.
Shadow rider
6.5 Creedmoor
I've been too busy to see if this is posted already...
reason.com
Another step in the right direction, but the pessimist that I am makes me think it will be followed by even more draconian measures of one fashion or another to subvert 2A.
Gun hobbyists (and liberty) win big in court
Fifth Circuit judges slap the ATF for making up illegal rules against homemade guns.
reason.com
Another step in the right direction, but the pessimist that I am makes me think it will be followed by even more draconian measures of one fashion or another to subvert 2A.
GOYABEAN
.950 JDJ
They'll never stop finding another angle around it 
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
GOYABEAN
.950 JDJ
GOYABEAN
.950 JDJ
dean3690
.357 mag
We must keep the ban on pistol braces. The BATF is right. Too scary. Turns every pistol into an assault RPG.
Robin
.475 A&M Magnum
With all the communist dumbfuckery in this shithole of a state I need a bracer.
Robin
Robin
gun_slinger_boy
.338 Win Mag
I take it something didn't go in our favor?