Acer-m14
.950 JDJ
didn't the Indians use long bows and arrows on them .. they just had to use a magazine pouch full of them
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Pistols & handguns VS Bears
- Thread starter @thewheels
- Start date
didn't the Indians use long bows and arrows on them .. they just had to use a magazine pouch full of them
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GunXpatriot
.40 S&W
didn't the Indians use long bows and arrows on them .. they just had to use a magazine pouch full of them
Those damn high-capacity bows. We gotta' ban those things! NO ONE needs to eat a buffalo.
Also, I'm waiting for one crazy dude to be like... "Challenge accepted. I'm off to go kill a buffalo with a .22" lmao
Acer-m14
.950 JDJ
i'm game .. as long as were riding on horses while shooting
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
Not unless they paddled across the ocean to arrow them.didn't the Indians use long bows and arrows on them .. they just had to use a magazine pouch full of them
Acer-m14
.950 JDJ
cape .. water .. its a big mass of power .. i bet in Africa they just had lots of spears .. same game run faster and shoot more lol ..
GunXpatriot
.40 S&W
Lmao, it just occurred to me what you were talking about. I need to get a good night's sleep. o_o
AnthonyC
.40 S&W
Can we even carry a firearm on parkland here in NY?
Nevertheless, I think either .40 cal, the .40S&W or the 10mm, would do fairly well against the four legged creatures that's possible to find in this state: black bears, coyotes, cougars. Honestly, I am more worried about the unleashed Pitbull or Rottie that I would encounter on my exercise runs.
Nevertheless, I think either .40 cal, the .40S&W or the 10mm, would do fairly well against the four legged creatures that's possible to find in this state: black bears, coyotes, cougars. Honestly, I am more worried about the unleashed Pitbull or Rottie that I would encounter on my exercise runs.
Yes(ish) state parks only with a license and during hunting season with a hunting license and in specific areas..
IANAL that is just a super basic overview of what I remember about state parks and carrying
Robin
.475 A&M Magnum
9mm
Robin
Robin
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
Glock 26 tube or shorter.
Acer-m14
.950 JDJ
I agree with robin .. 9mm or smaller cal .. no damage to the hide .. his mouth is open .. jam it in there and unload ..
LOL .
Rheinmetall L/44 with canister shot.
AnthonyC
.40 S&W
M9-7 Flamethrower
Weight (filled): 51 pounds
Fuel Capacity: 4 gallons
Effective Range: 65.5 feet
Maximum Range: 132 feet
Source: flamethrowerexpert.com
By default, you can carry on any piece of state, or federal, land unless there is a specific prohibition against firearm possession. Doesn't matter if its hunting season or not. The only state lands that specifically prohibit firearm possession, outside of hunting season, are State Parks, which are very specific historic and park sites not to be confused the Adirondacks or Catskills (Letchworth, Allegheny, old forts, ect.). WMA's, Adirondack state lands, Catskills, State forests, allow firearm possession, and in fact target shooting, by default. Certain easements (trails or access areas going over private lands) may restrict or prohibit firearm possession, but if you're on state land, you can possess a firearm (barring the prior exceptions I brought up).
It's highly unlikely there are cougars in NY BTW.
Vapor
.308 Win
long gun- Semi, lever, or Pump in .30-06 or .35 rem with a 200 grain plus bullet
Pistol-.44 mag hands down...Maybe a 10mm
shot gun-hardned slug in the 500-700 grain territory
Browns are nothing to $%&# around with. They will literally tear you apart with no remorse. I have read several animal attack, hunting, and encounter books from the 19-20th century. That stuff sticks with you when you read about men hearing their vertebrae crushed or torn out, and being able to not only feel the intense pain, but hear the crunching sounds. Long teeth scrapping across your skull, taking your entire scalp with it...bones breaking with ease.
browns have thick hide, muscle, and bone. I want a heavy, slow bullet capable of deep penetration to the central nervous system.
The natives generally avoided them at all cost. Males can attack for many reasons including territory, being startled, and predation. Females, well you all know.
Black bears are more gracile in build, and they are more shy. If they do attack hunans, often times it is for consumption...something to think about....A smaller caliber range such as heavy .357, .40 sw, etc is probably sufficient as discussed above.
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For me, I would want my 460XVR, and whatever else I could reasonably carry with me, - my 629, maybe a Glock 17 w hard cast rounds in a 33 round mag?
gracile
adjective
grac·ile | \ ˈgra-səl , -ˌsī(-ə)l\
Definition of gracile
1: SLENDER, SLIGHT
2: GRACEFUL
3: of, relating to, resembling, or being a relatively small slender australopithecine (genusAustralopithecus) characterized especially by molars and incisors of similar size that are adapted to a diet including both plant matter and animal flesh.
Learn something new every day I do.
Some folks complain about fancy words. It is far better to look up unfamiliar terminology I think.
Anyways, there is a distinction between arms for the hunting of bears and those intended for defense from bears. For hunting I would certainly use a rifle in an appropriate caliber for the species. For the really big brown bastards I'm thinking .338 Mag is a safe minimum.
But for bear defense we have to consider that whatever we are doing in bear country, since we aren't hunting for bear, we are already carrying stuff for other activities. That's why I think something comparatively light and compact like a Glock 20 is suitable.
Not that any of us here have any chance of running into a brown bear here in NY, but if a 10mm is considered an acceptable minimum, a .357 magnum should be as well. The average .357 mag loads are nothing to sneeze at and the hotter loads actually edge out 10mm somewhat in terms of energy. The cartridge also has better sectional density (which normally equates to better penetration).
.44, .454, .500 are fine and dandy...I think most people can't shoot them accurately in life-or-death situations, though most would never admit that. People have evidently taken brown bears with 9mm, though I'm sure most guides would advocate going to more powerful handgun cartridges.
For the purposes of NY (black bear), 9mm (with the appropriate ammo), .40s&w, and perhaps even .45 acp (if loaded appropriately) should work assuming good shot placement. As someone else pointed out, we're talking about self-defense, which is in some ways different from hunting and tracking. Honestly, a pocket folder-knife has been the only "weapon" i've carried for 99% of my time spent in black bear country. They have the potential to be dangerous, but most want nothing to do with humans.
It no doubt did something to the bear, but the effects won't always be immediate, or obvious, if the shot placement is poor...which holds true for just about any pistol cartridge.
.41 and up is fine, if you can handle the recoil and practice sufficiently...I don't think most people do that however. Except for the most dedicated of target shooters, .44 magnum just isn't the type of cartridge that you want to spend lots of time practicing with (from a cost and recoil perspective). I find that as you go up the pistol "power" chart, you need to spend more and more time in order to truly maintain proficiency. If you take a few shots from the bench and call it good for the year, you're kidding yourself if you think you'll truly be prepared for a life-or-death situation.
Also, black bear are tough, but they aren't brown bear tough. 9mm +p, .40s&w, .45 acp, and certainly .357 mag and 10mm should have no problems handling those kinds of animals in a self-defense situation. It's ludicrous to think that you need a dirty-harry level of revolver in order to be safe in black bear country. And quite honestly, good situational awareness and a loud voice will take care of 99.9% of the black bears the average person will ever encounter.
I'd be interested in seeing that link...
If bullets truly did pancake against the skull, I highly doubt the shooter was using hardcast lead bullets. Buffalo Bore, and some other companies, make hardcast lead .357 loads which have a very good reputation for working against large and dangerous game, including brown bears.
Based on sectional density and muzzle energies, those hotter .357 loads still retain a distinct advantage over 10mm, which has become all the rage in predator defense as of late.
Got to remember this is from the 1960-70s, magazine article and not having much luck finding it.
Back then you pretty much cast your own from Wheel weights, Linotype, etc., Milek was a big 357 Herrett guy; I'll try a little longer to find something. Only found he wrote for Guns and Ammo, do a search there and didn't find that article; but there are others about him, Thompson Contenders, etc..
Back then you pretty much cast your own from Wheel weights, Linotype, etc., Milek was a big 357 Herrett guy; I'll try a little longer to find something. Only found he wrote for Guns and Ammo, do a search there and didn't find that article; but there are others about him, Thompson Contenders, etc..
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Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Energy dump, stopping power, etc isn’t what stops a bear. It’s penetration to vitals. You can shoot a bear with a .308 which has way more energy than a .44 magnum in the gut and it still will fight if it wants to.
However, if a shot from either of those reaches his vitals, it’ll start shutting him down quicker than any shot to non-vitals.
Black Bear aren’t indestructible. Even .38 Special hard cast have taken them down. A .40 S&W that reaches vitals will do the same as a 10mm that reaches vitals. The vital isn’t going to care if it’s hit by a 9mm, .40 S&W, or 10mm. It either gets stuck or it doesn’t.
However, if a shot from either of those reaches his vitals, it’ll start shutting him down quicker than any shot to non-vitals.
Black Bear aren’t indestructible. Even .38 Special hard cast have taken them down. A .40 S&W that reaches vitals will do the same as a 10mm that reaches vitals. The vital isn’t going to care if it’s hit by a 9mm, .40 S&W, or 10mm. It either gets stuck or it doesn’t.
Okay, well keep in mind bullet technology and propellants have progressed quite a bit since the 1960's. If you recall, the whole reason LE went away from 9mm back in the 1980's was because of the infamous Miami shootout where certain 9mm rounds, while ultimately fatal, did not immediately incapacitate the bad guys. Now look where most of the LE community has transitioned back to...9mm.
Hard-cast lead bullets w/ both 10mm and .357 magnum are very capable nowadays...some fellows out in Alaska even put them to the test to show they were more than capable of penetrating a brown bear's skull.
I'm not saying that .44 magnum isn't better in that application...it most certainly is, but there are some distinct tradeoff's. I think a lot of the gun-writing community likes to promote the "go-big or go home" mentality when it comes to field pistols. However, most of those fellows have never run into a brown bear nor are they honest about their true capabilities with those bigger magnums. Shooting from a target range bench and shooting at a charging/angry bear when you're cold/wet/tired miles away from help are two very different things.